NDP to form offical opposition.

[Smallc]

You mean they are the most willing to extort the government to get their way.

I'm sorry, but that isn't how it works in a minority. Harper isn't some kind of supreme leader. He has to make a deal. The NDP has no problem making a deal.

[kimmy]

You have got to be joking. The NDP (the left) is usually far more willing to make a deal than any other party.

I don't think August is referring to the politicians themselves. I think he's referring to some of the absurdly shrill rhetoric that comes from some of our friends on the left. The kind of people who bike-lock themselves together on stage to prevent Christie Blatchford from speaking because they believe she's committing hate-crimes and a danger to the physical safety of students. The people who genuinely argue that Stephen Harper is like Adolph Hitler. The people at Rabble.ca. William Ashley. That sort of thing.

I'm sure Bloody would point out that those people have their counterparts on "the right", and he's correct.

-k

[punked]

You mean they are the most willing to extort the government to get their way.

Dumbest quote of the day.

[Bryan]

The NDP has no problem making a deal.

Sure, as long as it advances their cause.

[Wild Bill]

This is nonsense. On this very board, the continual whining about "the left! The left!" outdoes it's opposite by a pretty large degree.

And your personal anecdotes aren't necessarily helpful, since my own don't bear out your conclusion at all.

See, this is what I'm talking about. This is preposterous. Political debate, notably in democracies, has always been thus, and it far predates any contemporary notion of "the Left."

Tell it to Rick, BM!

[Evening Star]

Sure, as long as it advances their cause.

Isn't that usually how deals work?

[Bryan]

Isn't that usually how deals work?

I think you missed the point. Go back to post #16 and read from there.

The left makes deals that suit them, but it's almost always a one way street; the right is still expected to accommodate the left.

[Mr.Canada]

All people who usually vote for the Liberals pls vote for the NDP. They deserve your vote. The Liberals are a washed up party that campaigns like they are still in the 70's. Vote for the NDP a party with fresh ideas and a fresh faced leader ready to work for you Canada.

[Smallc]

Sure, as long as it advances their cause.

Yes?

[Evening Star]

I think you missed the point. Go back to post #16 and read from there.

The left makes deals that suit them, but it's almost always a one way street; the right is still expected to accommodate the left.

I just don't agree that this is the case. "We'll keep your government in power if you [extend EI benefits/increase the GIS for seniors]" seems like a two-way street to me.

[Bryan]

I just don't agree that this is the case. "We'll keep your government in power if you [extend EI benefits/increase the GIS for seniors]" seems like a two-way street to me.

And that's the disconnect. NDPers think Extortion is OK if you're the one doing it, but anything short of total capitulation on the other guys' part is 'extremism'.

[Evening Star]

Total capitulation?? Do you have any concept of what total capitulation to an NDP agenda would look like?

[Bryan]

Total capitulation?? Do you have any concept of what total capitulation to an NDP agenda would look like?

I didn't say they always GET their way.

[Evening Star]

But they've never asked for anything close to total capitulation from the CPC, only very specific and relatively modest social welfare measures, with which they were willing to support a government whose agenda is otherwise fairly opposed to the NDP's principles.

[Bryan]

Yes?

Yes.

[Smallc]

Yes.

What do you expect them to do, bargain for things that they don't believe in?

[punked]

No one can be this thick.

[Bryan]

What do you expect them to do, bargain for things that they don't believe in?

Go back and start reading from post #16.

[Smallc]

Go back and start reading from post #16.

There were so many things wrong with that post, that I only decided to address one. It's clear where the debate is being shut down in Canada right now, and it isn't on the left.

[punked]

Go back and start reading from post #16.

How about you point to what you are referring to because going back to that post doesn't make this thread make any more sense.

[Bryan]

It's clear where the debate is being shut down in Canada right now, and it isn't on the left.

And that is the disconnect here.

Not getting 100% compliance is what the left calls "shutting down debate". The right compromises and meets them 3/4 of the way, and the left are the one who scream about not getting their way.

[Smallc]

Not getting 100% compliance is what the left calls "shutting down debate". The right compromises and meets them 3/4 of the way, and the left are the one who scream about not getting their way.

That is such bull. The right never compromises. The Liberas, for example, proposed compromise on the long gun registry. Now, I didn't agree with the compromise, but still, the Conservatives completely ignored it. There are many many cases.

[Mr.Canada]

That is such bull. The right never compromises. The Liberas, for example, proposed compromise on the long gun registry. Now, I didn't agree with the compromise, but still, the Conservatives completely ignored it. There are many many cases.

Hrm, I think they will al compromise but no party wants to lose face or appear weak so they all play games. That's politics though, whatcha gonna do? Right?

Edited April 24, 2011 by Mr.Canada

[Smallc]

Hrm, I think they will al compromise but no party wants to lose face or appear weak so they all play games. That's politics though, whatcha gonna do? Right?

That's right. There are sacred cows on all sides....and it isn't just the left. There are though, generally, less sacred cows for the NDP.

[August1991]

I don't think August is referring to the politicians themselves. I think he's referring to some of the absurdly shrill rhetoric that comes from some of our friends on the left. The kind of people who bike-lock themselves together on stage to prevent Christie Blatchford from speaking because they believe she's committing hate-crimes and a danger to the physical safety of students. The people who genuinely argue that Stephen Harper is like Adolph Hitler. The people at Rabble.ca. William Ashley. That sort of thing.

I'm sure Bloody would point out that those people have their counterparts on "the right", and he's correct.

-k

You read me sort-of right, Kimmy. But then I disagree that both sides are tolerant.

I just sat through several dinner party conversations in Montreal (and one in Toronto a while ago) as well as several meetings in which I silently listened to people openly criticize Harper, Conservatives and the right in general. Generally, no one objected. (In one case, someone did by noting that we live in a democracy where differing views are allowed and met with a blistering verbal assault.)

This is hardly a scientific sample but as a minimum, I have come away with the conclusion that some people really, really hate Harper. I reckon that these people generally live in urban areas.

I don't know. Maybe a socialist in Calgary would feel even more isolated. OTOH, it seems to me that the Right is ultimately based on libertarian instincts (with a dose of "consequences to actions" discipline). The Left is about government-expansion, control and making our fellow human beings better people.

People on the Left are on a mission. Without any sense of irony, they refer to themselves as "progressive".

You have got to be joking. The NDP (the left) is usually far more willing to make a deal than any other party.

But Smallc, the NDP only has about 35 seats in a parliament of over 300. Simple humility dictates a willingness to compromise.

How would you feel if 30 anti-abortionists influenced government policy? How would you feel if I said that they were "willing to deal"?

All people who usually vote for the Liberals pls vote for the NDP. They deserve your vote. The Liberals are a washed up party that campaigns like they are still in the 70's. Vote for the NDP a party with fresh ideas and a fresh faced leader ready to work for you Canada.

If the federal Liberals didn't exist as a party, you are wrong to conclude that all Liberal voters would vote NDP. Edited April 24, 2011 by August1991