More Conservative thuggery...Liberal supporters property attacked

[Shakeyhands]

So the answer is no, you cannot tell me how Harper is like a dictator.

I want to see a direct link of how Harper is like Stalin who killed millions of people who opposed him. Or even like Fidel Castro who jailed people indefinitely and sometimes killed his political opponents. These are dictators.

Explain how Harper is like them and their actions.

Why am I not surprised that you do not know the definition of dictator?

PSA, just for you.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dictator

[Scotty]

You really only see one side of an argument don't you? Yes those on the left realize that raising taxes/minimum wage have effects. We also understand their needs to a balance you can't cut taxes to 0 (just because tax cut good, no tax cut bad uggg uggg).

That reflexively leftist moralizing is something I can do without, too. Conservatives are not cavemen because they want low taxes.

And btw, I was never a supporter of tax cuts. To my mind, you can have tax cuts when the debt is paid off. I would not have cut the GST.

However, the Left has, over the years, demonstrated an anti-business tone, and an anti-middle (who they describe as rich, entitled white people) class tone in their fiscal policies. The NDP in particular seems to have long since dedicated itself as the champion of the underdog. And the underdog, to them, are the poor, minorities, immigrants, natives, gays and lesbians, the disabled, etc. That's all well and good, but I'm not any of those. I'm a middle class white guy. The only thing the NDP wants to do to me is raise my taxes and then put in laws to make it harder for me to get a job or get promoted.

You talk about health care? It's bloody clear that the Canada Health Act is a problem, not the solution. And just throwing more money at it isn't going to do anything but bankrupt us. I'm in favour of abolishing our current system and replacing it with a European style system. But the NDP is shrill in their defense of the current system, so I'm not looking to them to improve things.

[Scotty]

At any rate, the idea of not raising the minimum wage also simplistically avoids many serious repercussions, as surely you have considered in your admonishment against "simplistic answers." Because inflation is not solely tied to a rise in minimum wage; their are other factors, of course. So if minimum wage is never hiked, it is objectively a decrease in wages over the years, relative to costs of living.

I'm aware of that. I'm not making a statement about whether it is or isn't right to raise the minimum wage at any given point in time. That's dependent upon a number of factors. I'm just using it as the kind of simple solution the Left tends to come up with for all society's ills. Poverty? No problem! Just give poor people more money! Raise taxes on those who work hard, and give it to those who don't! There, problem solved! Oh, there's still poverty!? Well, give them more money, and introduce a whole bunch of free education and skills training programs? Still poverty? Geeze, well, gotta raise taxes again!

Personal responsibility? What? What's that? Don't understand. You can't hold poor people responsible for anything. It's not like anything is their fault!

And yes, I'm aware there is a somewhat similar reverse sentiment among a minority of the Right, but it's not nearly as sweeping and widespread and doesn't (other than in the US) usually make its way into government policy.

[bloodyminded]

I'm aware of that. I'm not making a statement about whether it is or isn't right to raise the minimum wage at any given point in time. That's dependent upon a number of factors. I'm just using it as the kind of simple solution the Left tends to come up with for all society's ills. Poverty? No problem! Just give poor people more money! Raise taxes on those who work hard, and give it to those who don't! There, problem solved! Oh, there's still poverty!? Well, give them more money, and introduce a whole bunch of free education and skills training programs? Still poverty? Geeze, well, gotta raise taxes again!

Personal responsibility? What? What's that? Don't understand. You can't hold poor people responsible for anything. It's not like anything is their fault!

And yes, I'm aware there is a somewhat similar reverse sentiment among a minority of the Right, but it's not nearly as sweeping and widespread and doesn't (other than in the US) usually make its way into government policy.

Ok, I gotcha.

[punked]

That reflexively leftist moralizing is something I can do without, too. Conservatives are not cavemen because they want low taxes.

And btw, I was never a supporter of tax cuts. To my mind, you can have tax cuts when the debt is paid off. I would not have cut the GST.

However, the Left has, over the years, demonstrated an anti-business tone, and an anti-middle (who they describe as rich, entitled white people) class tone in their fiscal policies. The NDP in particular seems to have long since dedicated itself as the champion of the underdog. And the underdog, to them, are the poor, minorities, immigrants, natives, gays and lesbians, the disabled, etc. That's all well and good, but I'm not any of those. I'm a middle class white guy. The only thing the NDP wants to do to me is raise my taxes and then put in laws to make it harder for me to get a job or get promoted.

You talk about health care? It's bloody clear that the Canada Health Act is a problem, not the solution. And just throwing more money at it isn't going to do anything but bankrupt us. I'm in favour of abolishing our current system and replacing it with a European style system. But the NDP is shrill in their defense of the current system, so I'm not looking to them to improve things.

Nope just more simple answers from a simple guy. There is no substance to your arguments there is blind faith that the talking points you here are right but that is not true. I don't think those on the right are cave men their are plenty of smart people who believe in a more conservative Canada. I believe who dismiss and laugh that the very idea of a tax hike is impossible. That the very idea of a small tax increase to pay for more doctors which Canadians want isn't a valid solution to a problem.

I am not having an argument with you right now over the Canada health act we aren't even really arguing over if we should have more doctors or not. We are arguing about your idea that........"Tax Hike Bad". What I am saying is you can disagree with it and think it is wrong you can't dismiss as a solution to a problem. You can lay it out there and let Canadians decide but you act like hiking taxes a small amount is crazy. Which it is not.

[Wild Bill]

You really only see one side of an argument don't you? Yes those on the left realize that raising taxes/minimum wage have effects. We also understand their needs to a balance you can't cut taxes to 0 (just because tax cut good, no tax cut bad uggg uggg). There is a balance where the economy continues to grow at the same rate but where everyone pays their fair share. It is a lesson in game theory. If you think the left is wrong because (tax hike bad) that is fine you still haven't given me a reason why. It has to be reasonable but if we want more doctors then we have to pay for them somehow.

It's not that simple, Mr. P! A lot of folks are leaning NDP for the first time, especially in Quebec. During the campaign, has anyone heard one word from Jack that he will raise personal taxes?

Those of us who are familiar with the NDP would not be surprised but suppose the NDP were to take power, or become a key player in a coalition and got their own way. To many folks who had voted NDP seeing their taxes going up would be an unpleasant surprise!

Being Canadian, they would immediately start complaining. At that point, their neighbours who had known better would tell them "What did you expect? The NDP has to pay for their promises SOMEHOW!

Do you think that would help or hurt the NDP's chances NEXT election? Or do you really believe that most Canadians would have thought it through and said to themselves "Wow! It's all worth it! I'm HAPPY to pay more taxes!"

Perhaps you also would think "Gee, those Canadians who voted for us are pissed off but surely they would understand that it was THEIR mistake and they can't blame the NDP!"

No, Mr. P. It would be a shame for the NDP to come so far and then blow it for the next few elections!

[punked]

It's not that simple, Mr. P! A lot of folks are leaning NDP for the first time, especially in Quebec. During the campaign, has anyone heard one word from Jack that he will raise personal taxes?

Those of us who are familiar with the NDP would not be surprised but suppose the NDP were to take power, or become a key player in a coalition and got their own way. To many folks who had voted NDP seeing their taxes going up would be an unpleasant surprise!

Being Canadian, they would immediately start complaining. At that point, their neighbours who had known better would tell them "What did you expect? The NDP has to pay for their promises SOMEHOW!

Do you think that would help or hurt the NDP's chances NEXT election? Or do you really believe that most Canadians would have thought it through and said to themselves "Wow! It's all worth it! I'm HAPPY to pay more taxes!"

Perhaps you also would think "Gee, those Canadians who voted for us are pissed off but surely they would understand that it was THEIR mistake and they can't blame the NDP!"

No, Mr. P. It would be a shame for the NDP to come so far and then blow it for the next few elections!

I really don't think the NDP would get in and raise personal taxes. That is my honest opinion I think however that raising taxes is a valid solution when you weigh what the people want. The NDP do have a costing of how they pay for all their promises in their platform. Unlike the Liberals though the NDP haven't gone around making 10 billion of uncosted promises outside their platform. I think if you should scared of any party not keeping their word it would be the Liberals.

That is what I think.

[Scotty]

I am not having an argument with you right now over the Canada health act we aren't even really arguing over if we should have more doctors or not. We are arguing about your idea that........"Tax Hike Bad". What I am saying is you can disagree with it and think it is wrong you can't dismiss as a solution to a problem. You can lay it out there and let Canadians decide but you act like hiking taxes a small amount is crazy. Which it is not.

I never expressed the idea "tax hike bad". What I am expressing is the idea that tax hikes.. LARGE tax hikes, are the normal result of putting a leftish government into power. There are too many social wrongs they are ideologically committing to right without BIG HUGE tax hikes. Look at the McGuinty government in Ontario as an example. Dedicated to unions and the environment to the exclusion of all else, they hiked spending by 60% and produced the biggest budget deficit in Ontario history. And what do we have to show for it? A crippled economy which will continue to be crushed by ever growing electricity hikes as the full cost of his "green energy' initiatives kick in, doubling and tripling electricity costs.

[punked]

I never expressed the idea "tax hike bad". What I am expressing is the idea that tax hikes.. LARGE tax hikes, are the normal result of putting a leftish government into power. There are too many social wrongs they are ideologically committing to right without BIG HUGE tax hikes. Look at the McGuinty government in Ontario as an example. Dedicated to unions and the environment to the exclusion of all else, they hiked spending by 60% and produced the biggest budget deficit in Ontario history. And what do we have to show for it? A crippled economy which will continue to be crushed by ever growing electricity hikes as the full cost of his "green energy' initiatives kick in, doubling and tripling electricity costs.

OK so you agree in some situations tax hikes are. Good at least we got past you laughing at the idea of a tax hike. Now we can actually argue when are they good when are they bad,

The Liberals in Ontario cut corporate taxes to their lowest in Ontario history of course they are going to need a hike taxes on citizens. That is the whole point of this argument. You really can't argue for cutting corporate taxes on one hand then point to the Ontario Liberals as a terrible government. Their biggest problem has been their tax cuts, and how they have to make up for that revenue. They have shifted the tax burden from the top to the bottom. This is what you are arguing for.

[betsy]

Why am I not surprised that you do not know the definition of dictator?

PSA, just for you.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dictator

Here is the definition you gave:

dic·ta·tor   /ˈdɪkteɪtər, dɪkˈteɪtər/ Show Spelled

[dik-tey-ter, dik-tey-ter] Show IPA

–noun

1. a person exercising absolute power, especially a ruler who has absolute, unrestricted control in a government without hereditary succession.

So, by your own definition....anyone leading a majority government is a dictator.

Heck, how many years have we been under Liberal majority? How many years under a dictator Liberal PM?

Edited April 24, 2011 by betsy

[BubberMiley]

So, by your own definition....anyone leading a majority government is a dictator.

Heck, how many years have we been under Liberal majority? How many years under a dictator Liberal PM?

Hint: Find out what "absolute power" means.

[Bryan]

Hint: Find out what "absolute power" means.

Absolute? The opposition was able to bring him down just by voting for it. He's repeatedly openly put himself at the will of the people to decide if they want him. Even if he gets a majority, the public gets to decide again in four years.

[Guest peterb]

Hockey fans are sophisticated after all.

I was at a hockey game last nite and a booing broke out.

Conspiculously it was booing for one politician but applause for another - hockey fans do have some sophistication.

@RickRadovski Rick Radovski

4000 people booed #Ignatief at the #Majors game tonight while #Mississauga Mayor#HazelMcCallion got a huge ovation. She should run Canada

11 hours ago via Twitter for BlackBerry® Favorite Retweet Reply

Rick Radovski, Vice President Marketing and Sales at St. Michael s Majors Hockey Team, Mississauga,

[betsy]

Absolute? The opposition was able to bring him down just by voting for it. He's repeatedly openly put himself at the will of the people to decide if they want him. Even if he gets a majority, the public gets to decide again in four years.

Thank you Bryan.

[BubberMiley]

Even if he gets a majority, the public gets to decide again in four years.

Uh...yeah. I guess Harper doesn't have "absolute power" then, does he?

[punked]

Hockey fans are sophisticated after all.

I was at a hockey game last nite and a booing broke out.

Conspiculously it was booing for one politician but applause for another - hockey fans do have some sophistication.

@RickRadovski Rick Radovski

4000 people booed #Ignatief at the #Majors game tonight while #Mississauga Mayor#HazelMcCallion got a huge ovation. She should run Canada

11 hours ago via Twitter for BlackBerry® Favorite Retweet Reply

Rick Radovski, Vice President Marketing and Sales at St. Michael s Majors Hockey Team, Mississauga,

Here is the tape.

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20110424/ignatieff-booed-hockey-110424/

[Scotty]

The Liberals in Ontario cut corporate taxes to their lowest in Ontario history of course they are going to need a hike taxes on citizens.

That's a silly argument. You're suggesting corporate tax cuts and not a 90.5% increase in program spending are the reason the Ontario Liberals had to raise taxes!?

Tasha Kheirriddin

[punked]

That's a silly argument. You're suggesting corporate tax cuts and not a 90.5% increase in program spending are the reason the Ontario Liberals had to raise taxes!?

Tasha Kheirriddin

I am suggesting saying "Hiking corporate taxes is wrong and only left wing governments would do such a thing" then pointing to Ontario as your example is dumb.

[Scotty]

I am suggesting saying "Hiking corporate taxes is wrong and only left wing governments would do such a thing" then pointing to Ontario as your example is dumb.

I'm not sure I ever said anything along those lines, but okay, if that's what you think you need to avoid talking about the tendency of the Left for big program spending and big tax hikes.

[punked]

I'm not sure I ever said anything along those lines, but okay, if that's what you think you need to avoid talking about the tendency of the Left for big program spending and big tax hikes.

You have to take it government to government. The Conservative government of the 80s gave us the GST and the Conservative government of the 1910's and 20's gave us the income tax. The NDP government of Manitoba gave us one of the first governments in North America to view the small business tax as a bad thing. It really does depend and your assumption the left will give us more taxes really flies in the face of facts.

[punked]

Volpe's team are now apparently taking other candidates fliers out of peoples mail and throwing them in the garbage. Where is mister high and Mighty Volpe now?

http://buckdogpolitics.blogspot.com/2011/04/candid-election-camera-lib-joe-volpe.html

[TimG]

The Conservative government of the 80s gave us the GST

And modernized our tax system as a result.

the Conservative government of the 1910's and 20's gave us the income tax.

Liberal governments raised income taxes to the level they are now.

It really does depend and your assumption the left will give us more taxes really flies in the face of facts.

Sure it is if you look at it as a statistical problem rather than a yes or no problem. Are there examples of NDP governments being fiscally responsible? Yes. Are there examples of NDP governments being fiscally irresponsible? Definately Yes. What is the probability that Layton would be fiscally irresponsible? Pretty damn high if you look at all of the spending promises he is making.

[punked]

Sure it is if you look at it as a statistical problem rather than a yes or no problem. Are there examples of NDP governments being fiscally responsible? Yes. Are there examples of NDP governments being fiscally irresponsible? Definately Yes. What is the probability that Layton would be fiscally irresponsible? Pretty damn high if you look at all of the spending promises he is making.

I don't know lets look at the statistics of it ok?

% of provincial budgets balanced:

46 per cent of the time NDP

21 Liberals

35 Conservatives

Now those numbers don't include Tommy Douglas and the CCF which balanced a lot of budgets.

Maybe you want to look at time spent in surplus instead and you only want the last 30 year. We can do that to.

NDP 51%

Cons 50%

PQ 50%

Libs 30%

Just saying you are wrong.

[RNG]

I don't know lets look at the statistics of it ok?

% of provincial budgets balanced:

46 per cent of the time NDP

21 Liberals

35 Conservatives

Now those numbers don't include Tommy Douglas and the CCF which balanced a lot of budgets.

Maybe you want to look at time spent in surplus instead and you only want the last 30 year. We can do that to.

NDP 51%

Cons 50%

PQ 50%

Libs 30%

Just saying you are wrong.

I'm not busting your chops but am seriously interested. Where did you get that data. Surprisingly enough I could probably find it for the US easier than for Canada.

[punked]

I'm not busting your chops but am seriously interested. Where did you get that data. Surprisingly enough I could probably find it for the US easier than for Canada.

http://peterferguson.ndp.ca/post/ndp-best-managers-of-government-budgets