Is Stephen Harper for Private HealthCare or Not?

William Ashley · April 18, 2011

Ads saying he wants to scrap Medicare are being asked to be taken down, and the words were said by David Somerville his boss not him? Is this to say Harper didn't support the National Citizens Coalition or doesn't now support their agenda? One of which is to remove medicare and privatize healthcare in Canada (desocialization)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Citizens_Coalition

If so it seems Harper has alienated his roots far more than renigging on parliamentary pension denile, an elected senate, and countless other functions...

So what is it, traitor to his people or traitor to Canada?

IS THIS STEPHEN HARPERS CANADA?

The organization's constitution distinguishes between 'voting' and 'public' members. Public members pay dues but do not have formal mechanisms for influencing the organization's policies or priorities. Public members are not entitled to be notified of or to attend any meetings, and they are not entitled to vote at any such meetings.

IS THIS THE HARPER AGENDA AND HARPER IS LYING OR IS IT NOT THE AGENDA AND HARPER COULD CARE LESS ABOUT THE NCC?

During its almost four decades of existence, the NCC has campaigned against:
the Canada Health Act, (LOOK HERE..)

the Canadian Wheat Board,

the general strike organized by the Canadian Labour Congress against wage and price controls imposed by the Liberal government of Pierre Trudeau in 1975

the admittance of Vietnamese refugees ("boat people") to Canada in 1979-1980 (SOUND FAMILIAR?)

closed-shop unions

the so-called "gold-plated" pension plan for Members of Parliament (**** IS HE TAKING HIS OWN?)

real or perceived government waste in general

*****the mandatory long-form census (sound familiar)

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadavotes2011/story/2011/03/30/cv-milewski-harper-coalition.html#

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2010/04/07/mp-pension-fund.html

Has he written to request his $178,000 tax payer funded pension not be given to him? That is more than the Queen makes in a year from Canada.

The Governor General makes more than $60000 less in a year WHILE SERVING!!!

Edited April 18, 2011 by William Ashley

Keepitsimple · April 18, 2011

Stephen Harper and the Conservatives believe in Universal Access to Medicare. The fear-mongering Left have polarized the Healthcare debate by framing the argument as Public versus Private services. In fact, the debate should accept that Canada already has a good amount of Private delivery in the system. The key issue is for the Federal Government, in association with the provinces - to ensure that any delivery of healthcare services be available equally to all Canadians - Universal Access. This is the path that Germany, Switzerland and France have successfully followed in combining Public and Private delivery - to the extent that wait times are half of Canada's and costs are lower.

To put the LIbereal Government's Health Accord (under Paul Martin) in perspective.....the Accord transferred $43 billion to the provinces over 10 years - an average of $4.3 billion annually. Ontario's Healthcare budget for one year - 2010 - $46 billion! Literally a drop in the bucket - certainly it did not "fix Healthcare for a generation".

Edited April 18, 2011 by Keepitsimple

cybercoma · April 18, 2011

If the Liberals were so terrible to health care in Canada, I'm not disagreeing that they were, then what has the Conservative Party done to repair the damage they caused? I'll tell you what they did: nothing. They just continued along with the program already set up by the Liberals.

capricorn · April 18, 2011

Just now in Yellowknife, Ignatieff was asked if the Liberals would pull the health care ad which incorrectly attributes a quote to Harper and issue an apology. Ignatieff would oblige to correct any wrong ad content as long as the Conservatives did the same for the "just visiting" and related ads. How does Ignatieff expect to erase the lasting impact of the ads knocking him for his opportunism? Why did Ignatieff not contest the content of those ads when they first came out? The only possible answer is that he could not.

capricorn · April 18, 2011

I'll tell you what they did: nothing. They just continued along with the program already set up by the Liberals.

They did one thing differently than the Liberals. In their five years in government, the Conservatives did not reduce health care transfer payments to the provinces.

cybercoma · April 18, 2011

They did one thing differently than the Liberals. In their five years in government, the Conservatives did not reduce health care transfer payments to the provinces.

You recognize a problem with what the Liberals did. However, you refuse to admit that the Conservatives have done nothing to address the problem. They just continued along with the Liberal Party's plan. Don't try to paint this as a Conservative vs Liberal deal with the Conservatives winning. They're no better and no worse. If you object to the Liberal policies, then you must object to the Conservative one too because they did nothing to change the situation.

WWWTT · April 18, 2011

You recognize a problem with what the Liberals did. However, you refuse to admit that the Conservatives have done nothing to address the problem. They just continued along with the Liberal Party's plan. Don't try to paint this as a Conservative vs Liberal deal with the Conservatives winning. They're no better and no worse. If you object to the Liberal policies, then you must object to the Conservative one too because they did nothing to change the situation.

Well it seems to me the solution to the problem is very simple.

Universal healthcare is a brainchild of the NDP.

So therefore you vote for the NDP and let the professionals of public healthcare resolve any problems that have accumilated.

A good example would be taking your car to be fixed to an electrician or a plumber as opposed to a certified mechanics shop.

WWWTT

capricorn · April 18, 2011

You recognize a problem with what the Liberals did. However, you refuse to admit that the Conservatives have done nothing to address the problem.

None of the parties are doing or have done what I would like to see, for example allow for the introduction of user fees for those who can afford it. I'm also not forgetting that health care delivery is a provincial responsibility. I like the fact that Quebec is experimenting with the delivery of private health care. There are private clinics in Ontario and the sky has not fallen. The parties are so adamant to not upsetting Canadians, an adult discussion and debate around health care is presently impossible.

capricorn · April 18, 2011

The Globe has amended their August 2010 article mentioned in the Liberal ad. They've asked the Liberals for a response.

Keepitsimple · April 18, 2011

You recognize a problem with what the Liberals did. However, you refuse to admit that the Conservatives have done nothing to address the problem.

Wake up! Delivering Healthcare is the responsibility of the Provinces. The federal government contributes about 15% of funding - the Provinces contribute 85%. The Feds don't run a single hospital, nor do they pay doctors, Their sole role at the moment is to leverage their 15% investment to "protect" the Canada Health Act. We're blessed with 10 provinces who can try different things to improve the delivery of care......but they are limited by the Canada Health Act. As I said - Wake up! Look at Germany, France and Switzerland - countries who have evolved - by necessity - from Public systems to a mixture of public and private - but all under the guiding light of Universal Access. If you want action on Healthcare, the Feds have to sit down with the Provinces and discuss the Canada Health Act - how it can be ammended to help the Provinces experiment within the framework of Universal Access. Fear-mongering comments like "Harper will scrap the Canada Health Act" serve only to prevent constructive dialogue.

capricorn · April 18, 2011

Thumbs up to what Keepit said.

PIK · April 18, 2011

lets not forget jack getting his hernia fixed in a private clinic.

Smallc · April 18, 2011

lets not forget jack getting his hernia fixed in a private clinic.

I have no problem with private hospitals and clinics in the public system. Jack might care, but he shouldn't.

scribblet · April 18, 2011

The Liberals have been caught lying, they don't like it, I would like to see the Tories come back with an ad about that, and stressing that the only gov't to cut health care spending was the Liberals.

Harper has increased it and has committed to the 6% and more beyond 2014, but he needs to stress the fact that he has no intentions of 'gutting health care'. Of course health care was gutted by the provinces after the Liberals cut transfer payments.

I believe Harper doesn't have a problem with private health care alongside our current system, neither do I, we should have a choice.

cybercoma · April 18, 2011

None of the parties are doing or have done what I would like to see, for example allow for the introduction of user fees for those who can afford it. I'm also not forgetting that health care delivery is a provincial responsibility. I like the fact that Quebec is experimenting with the delivery of private health care. There are private clinics in Ontario and the sky has not fallen. The parties are so adamant to not upsetting Canadians, an adult discussion and debate around health care is presently impossible.

I don't understand why there would be a user fee for those who afford it. One of the fundamental principles of our healthcare system is universality. In any case, delivery can be examined, however, bear in mind that the United States pays more per person for healthcare than we do and they don't even have "socialized" payments. In Canada, the delivery of healthcare is mostly private anyway. Doctors are not employees of the state, like they are in Cuba. Hospitals, for the most part, are not owned and operated by the state--typically, it's not-for-profit groups that own and operate hospitals. What we have in Canada is a hybrid of the American privately paid, privately delivered system and the UK publically paid, publically delivered system. In Canada it is a publically paid, privately delivered system.

The question is what do the lobbyists that ask for "private" healthcare really want? The answer is that they want to give access to American health corporations. They want to turn healthcare delivery into a queue-jumping, whoever can afford it, survival of the fittest dystopia. Some people believe that resources should be allocated based on how much wealth a person has and an open, private market for healthcare will do just that. Fortunately, enough people in the country decided that this is fine for groceries and gasoline, but healthcare delivery is a different animal that requires a different system for myriad reasons, least of which is compassion.

punked · April 18, 2011

The Liberals have been caught lying, they don't like it, I would like to see the Tories come back with an ad about that, and stressing that the only gov't to cut health care spending was the Liberals.

Harper has increased it and has committed to the 6% and more beyond 2014, but he needs to stress the fact that he has no intentions of 'gutting health care'. Of course health care was gutted by the provinces after the Liberals cut transfer payments.

I believe Harper doesn't have a problem with private health care alongside our current system, neither do I, we should have a choice.

Wow I am shocked not that the Liberals lied but that the Media called them on it. Well they didn't really the Conservatives called them on it at which point the Liberals denied it and the media accepting that until the Conservatives showed them it was a lie so now the media is calling it a "misquote". It is a lie from a Liberal.

cybercoma · April 18, 2011

The federal government contributes about 15% of funding - the Provinces contribute 85%.

I'll take you seriously when you get your numbers right.

In the fiscal year 2006-07, federal funding under the Canada Health Transfer was approximately $32.9 billion (source: Department of Finance Canada, Canada Health Transfers). This represented approximately one-third of the total $98.8 billion spent by Canadian governments on health care in 2006 (source: Canadian Institute for Health Information, NHEX Trends: 1975-2006).
source: http://www.mapleleafweb.com/features/canada-health-act-provisions-amp-administration#provisions

According to the federal government:

Provincial claim:
The federal share of health care spending is 16 cents on the dollar.

Fact:

To arrive at this figure, provinces divide the combined cash portions of the Canada Health Transfer (CHT) and the Canada Social Transfer (CST), as well as the Health Reform Transfer (HRT), by all of their social spending, not just their health care spending - they also include social services and primary, secondary and post-secondary education in their calculation.

http://www.fin.gc.ca/facts-faits/fshc7-eng.asp

1. Together, the Canada Health Transfer, Health Reform Transfer and Diagnostic/Medical Equipment Fund, as well as funding for public health and immunization, make up a federal contribution of about $27.2 billion, or an average of 33% of provincial health spending.
2. When an amount of equalization payments corresponding to the amount of total program spending that provinces allocate to health is added, the federal share rises to 37%.

3. When direct federal support of over $5 billion annually is included, the total federal contribution to national public health spending (what all governments spend) is about 40%.

4. So while there is no single correct number for the federal share of provincial health care spending, the numbers above show substantial federal support for health care in Canada.

http://www.fin.gc.ca/facts-faits/fshc7-eng.asp

Edited April 18, 2011 by cybercoma

Tilter · April 18, 2011

Wow I am shocked not that the Liberals lied but that the Media called them on it. Well they didn't really the Conservatives called them on it at which point the Liberals denied it and the media accepting that until the Conservatives showed them it was a lie so now the media is calling it a "misquote". It is a lie from a Liberal.

Punked, I get so tired about reading the papers & watching the "news bites" on TV I either throw thwe paper away or turn off the TV. The media is the ones who are lying. They slant the news so much in the Torstar group of papers or on CTV & Cbc that it would seem that a person would be a total ass to vote for any party other than the liberals.

Guess what--- Sun News Channel is on the air Today and I'll bet it gives a better slant on the Harper Team.

The Torstar reminds me of the story about a politician.

Let's use Harper for this.:

Harper & the Pope went fishing in a small boat--- just the 2 of them to get away from the Media.

The Pope got a real big fish on the line & it pulled him off the boat. As he was splashing around, he yelled that he was drowning. Harper calmly got out of the boat & walked over to the Pope ,pulled him out & carried him to shore.

The press reported---- Harper can"t swim.

Edited April 18, 2011 by Tilter

punked · April 18, 2011

I'll take you seriously when you get your numbers right.

According to the federal government:

Nope that is Ottawa fuzzy math you are doing. Fact Ottawa transfers and picks up roughly 15% of the cost of health care. However in the 1980s Ottawa transferred some taxing powers to the provinces, allowing them to raise more money to pay for health care. Taking that into account then we get close to 30% number. However these tax points transfers don't actually. This doesn't take into account the horrible idea that Martin had of letting provinces pocket health and education transfers to be used however they want.

Sorry your math doesn't fly with me. In transfer payments Ottawa covers around 15% of the Bill that is a fact. If we count the tax point transfers (which is very complex) we get closer to your number.

William Ashley · April 18, 2011

Lets get straight on the "feds do not run hospital thing"

There are no 'civilian' hospitals run by the Federal Government. HOWEVER there are military facilities and doctors known as CFMS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Forces_Medical_Service

http://www.forces.gc.ca/health-sante/pub/fs-fd/tpd-epp-eng.asp

Edited April 18, 2011 by William Ashley

punked · April 18, 2011

Lets get straight on the "feds do not run hospital thing"

There are no 'civilian' hospitals run by the Federal Government. HOWEVER there are military facilities and doctors known as CFMS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Forces_Medical_Service

No the Feds do run one I believe in Manitoba.

Smallc · April 18, 2011

There are no 'civilian' hospitals run by the Federal Government. HOWEVER there are military facilities and doctors known as CFMS

There are no military hospitals in Canada.

Edited April 18, 2011 by Smallc

Smallc · April 18, 2011

No the Feds do run one I believe in Manitoba.

I never thought of reserve hospitals. There is at least one in Manitoba, jointly funded and operated by the province and the reserve.

William Ashley · April 18, 2011

No the Feds do run one I believe in Manitoba.

Health Canada DOES NOT OPERATE ANY HOSPITALS!

The Canadian military has health facilities though.

Edited April 18, 2011 by William Ashley

cybercoma · April 18, 2011

punked, it's not my math and the 15% number is addressed in the quotes and links provided. It doesn't look like fuzzy math at all.

What is questionable about the numbers is that they don't take into consideration the amount of federal transfers vs provincial portions from the persepctive of the provinces. The federal government site just says, bam! Here's the total amount of money transferred and this is the total amount of money put in by all the provinces combined. So, although the federal government dumps in 40% of the funding for healthcare in Canada as a whole (which only amounts to 70% of total health care costs, since people pay out of pocket for roughly 30% of expenses), I want to know what that looks like province by province. Does the federal government pay closer to 100% of costs in New Brunswick, while paying 15% in Alberta?