Why do the Harper Conservatives dislike students?

[scribblet]

The Returning Officer should have respected E.C. rules, not just in allowing such a poll in the first place but allowing nefarious activities within the poll e.g. Liberal pamphlets, no scrutineer allowed and so on. The R.O. was the one undermining our democracy here, not those who were incredibly frustrated that such a illegal activities should be allowed. Attempting to portray this as the Conservates undermining the vote and 'disliking students' is incredible, and irresponsible to say the least, but I guess that's the left's type of politics.

Where all those students going to be in residence on May 2nd - bet not, and with such irregularities going on, who's to say they won't manage to vote again when they go home! Soona et al must have been incredibly frustrated at such flagrant disrespect of our democracy and EC rules.

Given the troubles the Tories have had with EC in past years e,g, the lawsuits, Gestapo-like raids on party offices,, withholding of refunds, you'd think people would get it; get the fact that EC is, like the CBC, a campaign team opposing the CPC.

Packed with Chretien's cronies and Harper-haters, you can bet that EC has an unwritten mission statement to: conduct federal elections and by-elections, in a manner prejudicial to the CPC. In other words, the Tories will be held to a higher standard of compliance than the others, and rules will be applied to favour the others or to their disadvantage. That is what we should expect from Elections Canada led by Marc Meyrand as you look to his decision in favour of the Liberals on a similar matter in 2006.

Both EC and the Guelph R.O. should be investigated.

[Molly]

What utter rot.

There is absolutely no rule against such a poll- or at least there wasn't. NOW there's a policy against them specifically as they apply to students, but that's new-- and bad.

There is at least as much (more) to guard against double voting when the first is a special ballot as there is when the first is at an advance poll.

There is a legitimate chain of process that may be followed to object to the presence of partisan materials, and it does NOT include unauthourized partisan hacks commandeering ballot boxes full of votes.

[Harry]

Harper wants to minimize the student vote. After what happened in Guelph Harper can now say: 'Mission accomplished'

[YEGmann]

Harper wants to minimize the student vote. After what happened in Guelph Harper can now say: 'Mission accomplished'

You mean students can't vote now?!

However, this move closes at least one loophole, preventing students to vote twice in the same election.

Edited April 16, 2011 by YEGmann

[scribblet]

What utter rot.

There is absolutely no rule against such a poll- or at least there wasn't. NOW there's a policy against them specifically as they apply to students, but that's new-- and bad.

There is at least as much (more) to guard against double voting when the first is a special ballot as there is when the first is at an advance poll.

There is a legitimate chain of process that may be followed to object to the presence of partisan materials, and it does NOT include unauthourized partisan hacks commandeering ballot boxes full of votes.

Nope, it's correct, and the rot is within E.C. There may be allowances for 'special polls' but they have to be pre-authorized, this one clearly was not. The new policy is good, it's upholding democracy, there was no need for a special poll, there are 4 voting days, you can mail, or you can go to the returning office and vote there, any day.... This was a put up job with 'mob votes', the R.O. needs to be investigated, along with E.C. and the officials for not doing their jobs at the poll.

Judging from the nefarious activities at the poll, I would be surprised if the legitimate steps ensuring no double voting have been taken. There is no credibility from that area.

Sona may have reached for the ballot box but didn't take it, that was wrong, but that's all that was wrong. If you can't see how this puts a stain on the credibility of our voting process, I can't help you there.

[guyser]

What do you mean by a myth. My personal experience is definitely not a myth.

"but you must know not all status kids get that"

Thats the part. Some people think its a free ride for everyone.

[PIK]

The accused culprit is Michael Sona, a Conservative party operative (read Conservative Party employee), who presently is an aide to Fundy Royal, NB junior minister Rob Moore. Maybe among the many things that need to be done here is to lauch a major effort to defeat Rob Moore in Fundy Royal. What is Rob Moore doing employing a creep like this? What else has this party hack been up to? And why is he in Guleph, Ontario which is pretty far from home? Layton is absolutely correct - we do need an investigation.

There is only one reason Harper backed off on this and it was the student backlash.

Paul Bretscher, a NDP campaign volunteer in Saskatchewan, said the Liberals tried to shut down a special student poll at the University of Toronto in 2006.

Bretscher, president of the university's students' administration council at the time, said a team of Liberal lawyers forced Elections Canada to cancel the vote just 12 hours before they were set to begin. The agency eventually allowed it to proceed.

Ignatieff's condemnation of the Tories is "opportunistic," he said in a statement.

"Mr. Ignatieff’s defence today was that in 2006, Liberals acted before the poll happened – though barely – and the Conservatives acted after the poll happened," he said.

"This is a pretty lame defence. Giving advance notice for subverting democracy doesn’t make it any more acceptable."

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/ignatieff-calls-harper-help-efforts-release-afghan-documents-20110415-074123-671.html

[guyser]

The Returning Officer should have respected E.C. rules...The R.O. was the one undermining our democracy here, not those who were incredibly frustrated that such a illegal activities should be allowed. .... but I guess that's the left's type of politics.

....frustrated at such flagrant disrespect of our democracy and EC rules.

Given the troubles the Tories have had with EC in past years e,g, the lawsuits, Gestapo-like raids on party offices,, withholding of refunds, you'd think people would get it; get the fact that EC is, like the CBC, a campaign team opposing the CPC.

Packed with Chretien's cronies and Harper-haters, you can bet that EC has an unwritten mission statement to: conduct federal elections and by-elections, in a manner prejudicial to the CPC. In other words, the Tories will be held to a higher standard of compliance than the others, and rules will be applied to favour the others or to their disadvantage. That is what we should expect from Elections Canada led by Marc Meyrand as you look to his decision in favour of the Liberals on a similar matter in 2006.

Both EC and the Guelph R.O. should be investigated.

Oh noooo...the EC , SCC, MSM they are all out to get us.

Pretty soon it'll be CARP, after that who lnows

[ironstone]

In today's left leaning Ottawa Citizen from page 3:The Conservatives say the polling station was illegal and unauthorized.They also claim there was partisan material close to the ballot box and that their scrutineers were NOT granted permission to observe the voting.Both actions are in breach of the Canada Elections Act.

The chief electoral officer admits to not pre-authorizing the special ballot station but surprise surprise,Elections Canada says they will consider the ballots legitimate and will be counted.

Gee, what are the chances of a "special"voting station being held in any Conservative stronghold and being accepted by Elections Canada?

[Bryan]

Oh noooo...the EC , SCC, MSM they are all out to get us.

Pretty soon it'll be CARP, after that who lnows

Actually, CARP is already on that list. Susan Eng in particular.

[Bob]

Elections Canada is breaking its own rules by accepting these votes from the university in Guelph, considering that advanced votes are supposed to be coordinated with Elections Canada in advance. It looks like another example of the government-apparatus' anti-Conservative bias. I was reading a conservative blog on this story and an interesting question as asked - do you think Elections Canada would behave the same way had this early vote taken place at a Catholic Church that was known for being largely conservative?

[Molly]

In today's left leaning Ottawa Citizen from page 3:The Conservatives say the polling station was illegal and unauthorized.They also claim there was partisan material close to the ballot box and that their scrutineers were NOT granted permission to observe the voting.Both actions are in breach of the Canada Elections Act.

The chief electoral officer admits to not pre-authorizing the special ballot station but surprise surprise,Elections Canada says they will consider the ballots legitimate and will be counted.

Gee, what are the chances of a "special"voting station being held in any Conservative stronghold and being accepted by Elections Canada?

Like in a nursing home? Very high indeed. Extremely high.

[capricorn]

Elections Canada is breaking its own rules by accepting these votes from the university in Guelph, considering that advanced votes are supposed to be coordinated with Elections Canada in advance.

Actually Bob, I think those voting booths in educational facilities are legal under the Elections law. In this respect, it doesn't mean the law is without flaw. By putting a stop to them for the remainder of this election, it looks like Elections Canada is admitting too much latitude was given to regional electoral officers. The arrangement is rife with opportunities to finagle with the system and the rules. And as was pointed out by others, casting more than one vote is a possible result that cannot be discounted. Hopefully, we will see changes to how special ballots are conducted in future elections.

[Bob]

Actually Bob, I think those voting booths in educational facilities are legal under the Elections law. In this respect, it doesn't mean the law is without flaw. By putting a stop to them for the remainder of this election, it looks like Elections Canada is admitting too much latitude was given to regional electoral officers. The arrangement is rife with opportunities to finagle with the system and the rules. And as was pointed out by others, casting more than one vote is a possible result that cannot be discounted. Hopefully, we will see changes to how special ballots are conducted in future elections.

I'd like to see the elections laws, if possible. As you've already pointed out, there's something very strange about accepting the votes from the university on the one hand, and then saying they won't allow any more similar early-voting without pre-authorization going forward. If the votes from the university are acceptable, why not allow the practice to continue? There's something very untoward about these events, and my suspicion is that Elections Canada, like most other apparatuses of the government, are biased against conservatism.

[ironstone]

Like in a nursing home? Very high indeed. Extremely high.

Some lady called Lowell Green's program this past week with a story claiming that an elderly parent in a nursing home who has dementia apparently now votes Liberal with some help from the staff.She claimed this is not an isolated incident either.Who knows how many elderly people in nursing homes are voting with outside help but who do not actually have the mental capacity to vote on their own.Many nursing home employees are union people so we know how they tend to vote.

[ToadBrother]

Some lady called Lowell Green's program this past week with a story claiming that an elderly parent in a nursing home who has dementia apparently now votes Liberal with some help from the staff.She claimed this is not an isolated incident either.Who knows how many elderly people in nursing homes are voting with outside help but who do not actually have the mental capacity to vote on their own.Many nursing home employees are union people so we know how they tend to vote.

So let me get this straight. An anecdotal story from a caller into a radio call in programme leads you to the conclusion that wide-spread electoral fraud is being committed in nursing homes.

Tune in next week when ironstone tells us how UFOs and the sasquatch really exist because some folks have appeared on talk shows insisting it's true.

Edited April 17, 2011 by ToadBrother

[scribblet]

Like in a nursing home? Very high indeed. Extremely high.

Actually, highly unlikely. Nursing homes are given special consideration and can have a mobile poll if needed. The mobile poll goes out to the nursing homes and to the patients.

[scribblet]

So let me get this straight. An anecdotal story from a caller into a radio call in programme leads you to the conclusion that wide-spread electoral fraud is being committed in nursing homes.

I believe her, but it's not fraud. If a handicapped person needs someone to help them vote, the caregiver/attendant just has to swear an oath and can go into the booth with them (or help at the mobile poll). All people are entitled to a vote, only problem is when it is someone with dementia or mentally challenged, they aren't making their own decision, the caregiver does the voting, so in reality they get two votes.. can't deny anyone a vote.

It would be fraud if this was being done without the DRO's knowledge and not swearing the oath, but the DRO should be with the poll....

Edited April 17, 2011 by scribblet

[bloodyminded]

So let me get this straight. An anecdotal story from a caller into a radio call in programme leads you to the conclusion that wide-spread electoral fraud is being committed in nursing homes.

Tune in next week when ironstone tells us how UFOs and the sasquatch really exist because some folks have appeared on talk shows insisting it's true.

Your prediction about crazed theories flying left, right and centre (double entendre intentional) has proven nicely prescient, TB.

Two more weeks! Soon we'll be talking Muslim/Communist sympathizers, fifth-columnist right-wing fascists trying to turn Canada into a new American state, the suspicious contiguity of the Royal wedding with the election, and how the Stalinist CBC is biased in favour of the Stalinist Jack Layton. (Oh, wait, that last one is already being floated.)

[bloodyminded]

I believe her, but it's not fraud. If a handicapped person needs someone to help them vote, the caregiver/attendant just has to swear an oath and can go into the booth with them (or help at the mobile poll). All people are entitled to a vote, only problem is when it is someone with dementia or mentally challenged, they aren't making their own decision, the caregiver does the voting, so in reality they get two votes.. can't deny anyone a vote.

It would be fraud if this was being done without the DRO's knowledge and not swearing the oath, but the DRO should be with the poll....

How many hundreds of thousands of elderly commit to voting with the help of their children or caregivers?

This is a non-issue--or else one so huge that this example is rendered trivial by comparison.

[Handsome Rob]

Will it make national headlines?

Teens claim to have been kicked out from local Tory rally

BURNABY (NEWS1130) - Two teens say they were barred from seeing Conservative leader Stephen Harper speak in Burnaby today, because they have ties to the Liberal party. The teens both volunteer with the Liberals, but say they were just there to hear him speak

Nineteen-year-old Justin Kaiser and his 17-year-old friend Diamond Isinger says they registered online for the event earlier this week, but Isinger tells News1130 when they showed up someone working the door recognized her name and refused to let her in. "I am not sure if he is staff or volunteer, he points to me, looks at the security guard and says, 'Under no circumstances is she allowed in.'"

She believes he may have known her online political presence, including Facebook and Twitter. She says when she registered online it seemed anyone was welcome. "They didn't make anyone specify any political affiliation or check a box that declared that you are supporter of the Conservative party."

[capricorn]

So the Liberals set up two students to be turfed from a Conservative rally so they can use it against the Conservatives. This is supposed to be earth shattering?

[Handsome Rob]

I didn't say any of that. I just posted it because it happened and might get picked up.

[capricorn]

I didn't say any of that. I just posted it because it happened and might get picked up.

Of course it will. Ignatieff will use it with his "drip, drip" routine. That the Liberals have it on their site will help.

http://bc.liberal.ca/uncategorized/young-people-denied-entrance-to-harper-event-in-burnaby/

I'm saying I doubt it will have traction with voters.

[scribblet]

So the Liberals set up two students to be turfed from a Conservative rally so they can use it against the Conservatives. This is supposed to be earth shattering?

It was and still is apparently earth shattering to the media and posters in forums who seem to think it's okay to do that.