aww, the poor prisoners of Ontario

[treehugger]

Finally, McGuinty is getting rid of the PREMIUM television that the prisoners have had for years. Now they have to be like many other Ontarians who can't afford anything other than basic t.v.

BUT they will still be allowed to have yoga classes on our money.

Why aren't prisoners treated like prisoners?

CBS news

[scouterjim]

Why? Because there are two parties in this country that believe that it is better to treat prisoners like kings rather than prisoners. You know, they are the ones who feel that the Conservatives "get tougher on crime" policy is politically incorrect. After all, one needs to see WHY these people went wrong instead of punishing them for wrong doing. They also feel that a criminal has more rights than the victim of their crime does.

Edited April 15, 2011 by Charles Anthony
deleted re-copied Opening Post

[eyeball]

I take it you two are experts in criminology.

[scouterjim]

I take it you two are experts in criminology.

No, I am someone who hears the "poor prisoners" routine from the NDP and Liberals, and gag.

[eyeball]

No, I am someone who hears the "poor prisoners" routine from the NDP and Liberals, and gag.

Do you have an actual quote of someone using the words "poor criminals"? If it's routine it should be easy to find one.

[guyser]

Why? Because there are two parties in this country that believe that it is better to treat prisoners like kings rather than prisoners. They also feel that a criminal has more rights than the victim of their crime does.

Please show us where in fact those two have ever occurred. Thanks

[charter.rights]

Rehabilitation is far more important in the Canadian system than punishment. While incarceration is used it is often a last resort reserved for those who either can't or refuse to be rehabilitated. We don't want American style prisons in Canada primarily because they don't work, and they produce higher rates of recidivism.

I agree that prisoners should not automatically have access to such perks BUT if they work to earn them by demonstrating calm and reasonable behavior, then why not?

[scouterjim]

Please show us where in fact those two have ever occurred. Thanks

Why do you think they are against a tougher stance on crime?

[kimmy]

Not sure why premium cable would be an important part of a rehabilitation program.

I recall somebody (Dennis Leary?) quipping about prisons with cable TV so that convicted child molesters can watch Nickelodeon. I'm not sure that giving them Showcase so they can watch "Weeds" or "Breaking Bad" or "Oz" or "The Sopranos" is such a great idea...

-k

[Handsome Rob]

Why? Because there are two parties in this country that believe that it is better to treat prisoners like kings rather than prisoners. They also feel that a criminal has more rights than the victim of their crime does.

Please show us where in fact those two have ever occurred. Thanks

I don't know about 'more rights,' but in these sorts of cases the "Victim" faces far more severe punishment than the offender.

Farmer charged for chasing, shooting thief

Farmer charged with shooting alleged thief overwhelmed by support

You don't steal ATV's & Pick-up's because you can't feed your family. Deterrent does play a role in this sort of thing.

Watching David Chen, it seems fairly clear where the overwhelming majority of Canadians stand on this, although the offender in that case seems a wee bit different. Regardless, continued catch & release will only bring more

vigilantism. Not to be taken as American style put-everybody-in-prison, but looking at re-offense rates it appears that things aren't operating as they ought to.

[bloodyminded]

I don't know about 'more rights,' but in these sorts of cases the "Victim" faces far more severe punishment than the offender.

Farmer charged for chasing, shooting thief

Farmer charged with shooting alleged thief overwhelmed by support

You don't steal ATV's & Pick-up's because you can't feed your family. Deterrent does play a role in this sort of thing.

What kind of fucking loser tries to take a man's life because of stolen property?

That is a more serious crime than theft.

He's a degenerate.

[GostHacked]

Finally, McGuinty is getting rid of the PREMIUM television that the prisoners have had for years. Now they have to be like many other Ontarians who can't afford anything other than basic t.v.

BUT they will still be allowed to have yoga classes on our money.

Why aren't prisoners treated like prisoners?

CBS news

Treat them like prisoners, then you will have nothing but prisoners. Sure some do not deserve to be treated as human, and well, maybe a nice special facility for them should be built. But for a good deal of them, they need to be treated like humans. Yes they made mistakes, but if we don't treat them as humans, then what do we get when they get out of prison?

Yoga I can see being beneficial for many. A calming exercise to flex, tone the body, and provides some relaxation. A nice change from being stressed out by worrying about getting shanked in the yard when pumping iron.

But cutting the TV is not a problem for me. Cut it out all together. Read a book.

[scouterjim]

What kind of fucking loser tries to take a man's life because of stolen property?

That is a more serious crime than theft.

He's a degenerate.

I'm sure you would stand and say, "Here. Take it. You obviously need it more than I do."

[GostHacked]

I'm sure you would stand and say, "Here. Take it. You obviously need it more than I do."

Steal from me, and I might cause you physical harm. Break into my house and i'll greet your knees with a long blunt object. Unfotunately with the laws we have, if the person breaks into my house and I cause them physical harm, I could face jail time. I can't even defend myself. And by the time the cops show up, it's too late. I support a person's right to defend themseleves in their own home against thieves and intruders.

[guyser]

Why do you think they are against a tougher stance on crime?

Empty rhetoric from you.]

Figured you couldn't do it. Thanks for not disappointing me. Carry on.

[scouterjim]

Steal from me, and I might cause you physical harm. Break into my house and i'll greet your knees with a long blunt object. Unfotunately with the laws we have, if the person breaks into my house and I cause them physical harm, I could face jail time. I can't even defend myself. And by the time the cops show up, it's too late. I support a person's right to defend themseleves in their own home against thieves and intruders.

I agree. However, it seems that many don't. Those poor criminals need defending, ya know.

[guyser]

but in these sorts of cases the "Victim" faces far more severe punishment than the offender.

Really?

The 'victim' was about to die? The victim was subject to ramming of his bed from inside his home?

Not to mention seperate acts here.

[guyser]

I can't even defend myself. And by the time the cops show up, it's too late. I support a person's right to defend themseleves in their own home against thieves and intruders.

One always has the right to defend oneself.

Even deadly force can be used.

[Handsome Rob]

What kind of fucking loser tries to take a man's life because of stolen property?

That is a more serious crime than theft.

He's a degenerate.

He shot him at close range with a shotgun, and the fellow kept running and got away. If he wanted to kill him he would be dead. This is not the same as that deranged fellow up north that killed 5 would be invaders with an assault rifle, all with wounds to the back.

This is a belligerent example, there are many others that don't invoke such an emotional response.

[bloodyminded]

I'm sure you would stand and say, "Here. Take it. You obviously need it more than I do."

Are those the two choices? Being perfectly happy with him taking my property...or trying to end his life, which evidently is worth less than my vehicle?

[bloodyminded]

I support a person's right to defend themseleves in their own home against thieves and intruders.

Which, of course, is completely different from the situation we're discussing.

[GostHacked]

Which, of course, is completely different from the situation we're discussing.

My bad, carry on then!

[guyser]

I'm sure you would stand and say, "Here. Take it. You obviously need it more than I do."

NO its much more fun to shoot a guy ...in the back....as he flees from you.

Fine upstanding citizen , not really.

[bloodyminded]

NO its much more fun to shoot a guy ...in the back....as he flees from you.

Fine upstanding citizen , not really.

He was misguided; equally hostile to thought are his supporters, who appear to be under the delusion that he's committed an heroic act.

The resort to violence is sometimes justified, but the bar should rightfully be set very high, both for individuals and for groups. (Up to and including nations.) If there is a clear need for self-defense (and the defense of others)--or even if the perception of this need is reasonable--then violence can be justified.

Chasing someone who has stolen your property, and then shooting at him, is not reasonable. This is more criminal than the act which has generated the response.

[scouterjim]

He was misguided; equally hostile to thought are his supporters, who appear to be under the delusion that he's committed an heroic act.

The resort to violence is sometimes justified, but the bar should rightfully be set very high, both for individuals and for groups. (Up to and including nations.) If there is a clear need for self-defense (and the defense of others)--or even if the perception of this need is reasonable--then violence can be justified.

Chasing someone who has stolen your property, and then shooting at him, is not reasonable. This is more criminal than the act which has generated the response.

So, a guy breaks into your home, rapes your wife and daughter, kills your son, and you would stand and say, "Well, I'm going to do nothing about it!"? Me? I'd hunt the SOB down, and do him in!