GE Will pay no TAXES on its US earnings.

[Bonam]

Who cares what our "trade balance" is?

What's the Earth's "trade balance" with the Sun? The Sun sends us energy and light, and we send it nothing in return. IOW, our trade balance with the sun is in serious deficit.

Heck, how many jobs have we outsourced to the Sun? If the Sun didn't exist, how many people would be employed to create light and heat during the daytime.

Hahaha, good one

Sun is gonna come collecting on those debts some day by the way... about 5 billion years from now it'll get all red and angry and swell up into its red giant phase and swallow the Earth.

[bush_cheney2004]

Someone has to make a buck dismantling the industrial capacity of your country, might as well be you.

Yep.....information is now all the rage...don'tcha know. Microsoft makes more on operating systems than China makes on hardware.

(BushChaney, nationalities aside: Are you for real, you don't want someone who made 5.1 Billion in your economy to pay any taxes, while your country is in a debt crisis? Seriously? You think this is not an issue?)

Nope....the taxes on $5.1 billion would only be slightly greater than free softwood lumber tariffs from Canada!

EDIT: BTW, what is wrong with you? Did you have a Canadian girlfriend that dumped you or something? Why are you so confrontational to anyone who has a view on your country? I do care. I care a great deal. I consider the US our ally, that is not to say I always agree with your politics. Even Americans do not agree on all the issues amongst themselves.

Always be wary of someone trying to kiss your ass....even Canadian girlfriends.

Edited March 27, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

[Bonam]

(BushChaney, nationalities aside: Are you for real, you don't want someone who made 5.1 Billion in your economy to pay any taxes, while your country is in a debt crisis? Seriously? You think this is not an issue?)

Someone made 5.1 billion and didn't pay any taxes? Who was it?

Edited March 27, 2011 by Bonam

[August1991]

Someone made 5.1 billion and didn't pay any taxes? Who was it?

Precisely. If people received some of the $5.1 billion in dividend cheques, then they had to claim it as income. If the earnings were re-invested, then shareholders ahd to claim a capital gain.

One can argue that our tax system favours rich people but it is wrong to say that "corporations" don't pay enough taxes. One could just as well argue that dogs or trees don't pay their fair share of taxes.

Corporations don't pay taxes. People do. When it comes to taxes, the key question is to figure out who actually pays the tax. Often, it's not obvious. But no corporation pays a tax.

[TimG]

Corporations don't pay taxes. People do. When it comes to taxes, the key question is to figure out who actually pays the tax. Often, it's not obvious. But no corporation pays a tax.

I would agree if we are talking about a company operating within a single tax juristiction. The theory falls apart when you have multi-national corporations or corporations owned by sovereign wealth funds. There is no way to recoup taxes without direct taxation of foreign entities operating within a country.

[August1991]

I would agree if we are talking about a company operating within a single tax juristiction. The theory falls apart when you have multi-national corporations or corporations owned by sovereign wealth funds. There is no way to recoup taxes without direct taxation of foreign entities operating within a country.

Tim, how does a multinational corporation change the story? Someone somewhere (a human being) has to pay the tax.

I suppose the government could claim ownership of natural resources and tax their use. That would be a tax on the earth, not people. But such a tax has nothing to do with corporations, national or multinational.

----

If a government wants to tax rich people, it should do so directly. Taxing corporations is a dumb way to tax because it's not clear who is getting taxed.

It's better to tax clearly and directly. Corporation taxes don't do this.

Edited March 27, 2011 by August1991

[TimG]

Tim, how does a multinational corporation change the story? Someone somewhere (a human being) has to pay the tax.

Sure. But those humans are not paying tax to the country in question if the corporation is not headquartered in the country. The only way for a country to extract taxes from foreign corporations is to tax those corporations on the income they earn within the country. Taxing personal income won't help because the income earners don't pay taxes to the country. Edited March 27, 2011 by TimG

[no1ninja]

Precisely. If people received some of the $5.1 billion in dividend cheques, then they had to claim it as income. If the earnings were re-invested, then shareholders ahd to claim a capital gain.

One can argue that our tax system favours rich people but it is wrong to say that "corporations" don't pay enough taxes. One could just as well argue that dogs or trees don't pay their fair share of taxes.

Corporations don't pay taxes. People do. When it comes to taxes, the key question is to figure out who actually pays the tax. Often, it's not obvious. But no corporation pays a tax.

In that case why should any company pay taxes on their earnings, as long as their employees are?

(I'll hire a bunch of students next year to paint my house, and point to the fact that I gave them money and the government should go after them. I also give money to charity, so I shouldn't have to pay taxes.)

It's sad to watch wealthy Americans destroying and betraying their own country, simply because it is profitable.

Edited March 27, 2011 by no1ninja

[no1ninja]

Number One Ninja, go read Adam Smith. He argued that trade is more important than collecting money/gold (mere paper or rock, after all).

But look, you seem to have figured this all out, Ninja. You're smarter than Adam Smith, Barack Obama or America's founding fathers.

China is the model to follow! Mao Zedong, c'mon on down!

Do you know what trade is? It means working both ways, and I agree the ideal trade relationship is that NO country accumulates wealth excessively. You want both partners benefiting equally.

I am obviously smarter than you, who do not understand Adam Smith. If you think the Sun is a valid comparison... than you obviously failed logical reasoning and never studied economics.

Edited March 27, 2011 by no1ninja

[no1ninja]

BTW,

BushDickChaney, you still have not explained why your dollar is worth less than ours.

Why is it that when China snaps their fingers you guys assume the position?

BushDick, your are not the sharpest tool your country has to offer. I have had much more productive debates with other Americans, something seems to be not right with you. You have a hard time connecting the dots, sometimes I think you are just here for spin instead of enjoying this forum. None of your points have any info in them, just flag waving and insults. Typical of the sheeple that got your country into this mess.

You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out why your country is bankrupt.

Edited March 27, 2011 by no1ninja

[Guest American Woman]

I obviously care more about your country than you. I have American friends and feel the pain of the many as oppose the joy of the few.

I honestly wouldn't waste my time caring that much about another country, unless you get something out of such thinking (and I'm guessing you do). As for your friends, I don't know them, so perhaps your "pain" is justified where they are concerned, but don't confuse your minuscule number of American friends with "many" Americans.

BushDickChaney, you still have not explained why your dollar is worth less than ours.

Wow. Two cents less. In case you're unaware of it, our dollars have a history of fluctuating value against each other. This is nothing new and no more a sign that our country is doomed for failure than Canada was doomed for failure when our dollar was worth quite a bit more than two cents more than the Canadian dollar. So why should any explanation be necessary? Most Americans aren't giving it any thought; dollars to doughnuts the vast majority aren't even aware if it, so no need for you to anguish over it.

[bush_cheney2004]

BTW,

BushDickChaney, you still have not explained why your dollar is worth less than ours.

Because we want it to....something called monetary policy. Get an education as others have suggested and you would understand this.

Why is it that when China snaps their fingers you guys assume the position?

Because the position is good...Canada knows it well!

BushDick, your are not the sharpest tool your country has to offer. I have had much more productive debates with other Americans, something seems to be not right with you. You have a hard time connecting the dots, sometimes I think you are just here for spin instead of enjoying this forum. None of your points have any info in them, just flag waving and insults. Typical of the sheeple that got your country into this mess.

Yet you worry and pee your pants over what America will/will not do. I can trade insults with the best of 'em when needed....you are hardly a challenge. American wannabe dweebs like you come and go around here. Get some perspective...it isn't all about "America".

You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out why your country is bankrupt.

That's OK...the Canadian rocket scientists go to the USA anyway.....LOL!

Edited March 27, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

[WIP]

What is a "fair share"? How is this determined?

GE and other corporations will continue to legally avoid tax liability, if only as sound business strategy.

Correction: they will continue to buy politicians across the political spectrum to advance the interests of large corporations and the majority shareholders.

[bush_cheney2004]

Correction: they will continue to buy politicians across the political spectrum to advance the interests of large corporations and the majority shareholders.

I sure hope so....since I am a shareholder. The "interests" of Americans who also pay no income taxes are already well represented.

[WIP]

If you feel that rich people pay too little tax, than that's a different argument. But at least be clear.

Shouldn't the growing wealth gap of the last 30 years in Canada and the U.S. be proof enough that the rich pay too little tax?

[WIP]

I sure hope so....since I am a shareholder. The "interests" of Americans who also pay no income taxes are already well represented.

My guess is that you are a small fish, since votes are awarded by the numbers of shares owned. Not to mention that you are not likely privy to inside information that the big guys have through their contacts.

[bush_cheney2004]

My guess is that you are a small fish, since votes are awarded by the numbers of shares owned. Not to mention that you are not likely privy to inside information that the big guys have through their contacts.

It matters not....lots of "small fish" like me are invested in the successes (and failures) of corporatism, which is still much better than your empty promise (from afar) of having somebody else pay for my "fair share", like the many millions of Americans who pay no income taxes at all and have their votes paid for.

To your specific point, I get proxy votes for equities just like the big guys. As do my mutual funds, just like millions of other tax paying Americans. You can understand why I dismiss those who pay none, but have lots of free advice to offer (from America or Canada).

Edited March 27, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

[Bonam]

That's OK...the Canadian rocket scientists go to the USA anyway.....LOL!

That's where all the cool work is for rocket scientists.

[Jonsa]

You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out why your country is bankrupt.

FYI, the US is far,far,far away from being bankrupt or even being broke.

If it was, the entire global economy would collapse.

[Oleg Bach]

Got the same problem - I am afraid to make money - If I earn some through my hard and diligent work...the tax department will empty my account...Taxing those that are the most vulnerable seems to be good sport for ambitious henchmen and woman....Some years I made nothing - and a year or two I barely made a living wage...but some nut...assumed that I was some rich guy hiding my money - and they started to take 100% of my earnings - Now I am on welfare...great -just great...illogical and Draconian taxation destroys the human spirit - and evenutally empoverishes all. Yes - there are people that operate with billions of dollars...and they actually pay nothing...and they expect me with nothing to pay something...I recently had an investment banker type ask me in a tone of loathing and contempt if I was gainfully employed....I thought to myself - there is no gain under the present sytem of taxation...just slavery - may as well be a lazy slave than a hard working one.

[August1991]

But those humans are not paying tax to the country in question if the corporation is not headquartered in the country. The only way for a country to extract taxes from foreign corporations is to tax those corporations on the income they earn within the country.

If a corporation has no shareholders in Canada, no employees here and no customers in Canada, then what does it have here exactly?

In that case why should any company pay taxes on their earnings, as long as their employees are?

(I'll hire a bunch of students next year to paint my house, and point to the fact that I gave them money and the government should go after them. I also give money to charity, so I shouldn't have to pay taxes.)

Brilliant, Ninja! And if you run a business, the house-painting would be a deductibe expense - except that I don't think your shareholders will be enthusiastic about your supposed tax avoidance scheme unless you use your home for the business.

Shouldn't the growing wealth gap of the last 30 years in Canada and the U.S. be proof enough that the rich pay too little tax?

Is that wealth gap or income gap?

But WIP, the last 30 years is hardly sufficient for such long term variables. And I'm not even convinced that such a gap is increasing. You are right however to ask the question.

To think that "rich corporations" pay "corporate taxes" is simply foolish and wrong. Corporate taxes fall on someone (human beings) somewhere. It's not obvious at all that the people who pay these taxes are rich or have high incomes.

If a government wants to tax rich people or people with high incomes, there are much better ways of doing this than imposing corporate taxes.

Edited March 28, 2011 by August1991

[TimG]

If a corporation has no shareholders in Canada, no employees here and no customers in Canada, then what does it have here exactly?

I was clear that I was was talking about foreign corporations which have few shareholders in Canada. If the profits are not taxed by the Canadian government then money that goes to shareholders is not taxed either. It is rather unfair to tax the employees and customers but not the shareholders.

Keep in mind that I agree with your premise that only people pay taxes. I am simply pointing out the reality that makes it impossible for governments to tax people without taxing corporations.

[WIP]

Is that wealth gap or income gap?

Over time, the annual growth in income gaps lead to a greater disparity in wealth, especially with tax cuts on investment income.

But WIP, the last 30 years is hardly sufficient for such long term variables. And I'm not even convinced that such a gap is increasing. You are right however to ask the question.

Canada used to have greater income equality than the U.S., but we are catching up fast:

Canada’s richest 1% are taking more of the gains from economic growth than ever before in recorded history

, says a report by the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives (CCPA).

The Rise of Canada’s Richest 1% looks at income trends over the past 90 years and reveals the 246,000 privileged few who rank among the country’s richest 1% took almost a third (32%) of all growth in incomes between 1997 and 2007.

“That's a bigger piece of the action than any other generation of rich Canadians has taken,” says Armine Yalnizyan, CCPA senior economist and the report’s author.

“

The last time Canada’s elite held so much of the nation’s income in their hands was in the 1920s.

Even then, their incomes didn’t soar as fast as they are today. It’s a first in Canadian history and it underscores a dramatic reversal of long-term trends.”

* From the beginning of the Second World War to 1977, the income share of the richest 1% dropped from 14% to 7.7%;

* By 2007 they’d made a comeback: the richest 1% held 13.8% of incomes;

* Since the late 1970s, the richest 1% has almost doubled its share of total income; the richest 0.1% has almost tripled its share of total income; and the richest 0.01% has more than quintupled its share of income.

http://www.policyalternatives.ca/newsroom/news-releases/richest-1-income-shares-historic-high

To think that "rich corporations" pay "corporate taxes" is simply foolish and wrong. Corporate taxes fall on someone (human beings) somewhere. It's not obvious at all that the people who pay these taxes are rich or have high incomes.

You mean it doesn't affect the earnings of major shareholders? If this is true that corporate taxes can just be deferred to the consumer, why are they moving headquarters's to fake addresses in the Cayman Islands, and other tax free zones to reduce corporate taxes owed in the U.S. and Canada?

[Oleg Bach]

Taxes are for suckers...real men do not pay tribute to hetrophags demanding play money.

[TimG]

The Rise of Canada’s Richest 1% looks at income trends over the past 90 years and reveals the 246,000 privileged few who rank among the country’s richest 1% took almost a third (32%) of all growth in incomes between 1997 and 2007.

Such statistics are basically meaningless without more context. For example, what is the turnover each year (how many of the richest 1% were not in that category the previous year)? How much tax did those people pay (did it increase faster than income)?

Here are some comparisons of different countries that show that even if the income of the top 1% has risen their shared of the taxes has increased accordingly. The challenge for the CPA is to explain why we should care about income inequality since we do live in a capitalist society and income inquality is the desired outcome.

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2011/03/us-has-most-progressive-tax-system-for.html