bud Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 GAZA - Israeli air strikes and shelling killed nine Palestinians in the Gaza Strip on Tuesday, medical officials said, in the deadliest day of conflict in the enclave in months. Palestinian medical officials said three youths aged 12, 16 and 17 who were playing football and an adult relative were killed by Israeli shelling, and five militants were killed later in two separate air strikes elsewhere in the Gaza Strip. more it's not okay to condemn the bus bombing that killed a civilian and then not condemn the shelling that killed civilians. the israeli government is no different than groups who order bus bombings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 no different and they'll use it as an excuse to start another settlement west bank... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonsa Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Only difference is that Israel generally doesn't shoot first. Disproportionate response is primary Israeli doctrine. There has NEVER been a palestinian attack on Israeli soil that has not been responded too in a heavy handed fashion. Palestinians know this and appear to welcome such response, so they can leverage their casualities in the propaganda war. Seems they haven't been getting much arab attention lately. Indeed, I'd wager your response to this story has been the same for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 it's not okay to condemn the bus bombing that killed a civilian and then not condemn the shelling that killed civilians.the israeli government is no different than groups who order bus bombings. Riiight. And the Allied governments that ordered air strikes et al that resulted in regrettable civilian deaths were no different from the Nazis who ordered the gassing of civilians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Only difference is that Israel generally doesn't shoot first. Disproportionate response is primary Israeli doctrine. There has NEVER been a palestinian attack on Israeli soil that has not been responded too in a heavy handed fashion. Palestinians know this and appear to welcome such response, so they can leverage their casualities in the propaganda war. Seems they haven't been getting much arab attention lately. Indeed, I'd wager your response to this story has been the same for years. Pretty much... Bud/Naomi Glover (nice photo of Naomi Klein,by the way)/Dub is waiting with glee for his/her Muslim Brotherhoos membership card coming in the mail... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 (nice photo of Naomi Klein,by the way) Awwwwww. You went and ruined it for Oleg. He thinks that's naomiglover in her profile photo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Riiight. And the Allied governments that ordered air strikes et al that resulted in regrettable civilian deaths were no different from the Nazis who ordered the gassing of civilians. Ouch sad example. In both cases people in the countries being militarily occupied have the right to resist using force/violence. The reality is that Israel is currently settling, and plundering the resources of an area that is under military occupation. That there will be violent resistance to such an occupation is obvious, and whining about it is disingenuous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonsa Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Ouch sad example. In both cases people in the countries being militarily occupied have the right to resist using force/violence. The reality is that Israel is currently settling, and plundering the resources of an area that is under military occupation. That there will be violent resistance to such an occupation is obvious, and whining about it is disingenuous. No question about the right to resist. OTOH in this case it has always been a losing strategy. Its like the classic definition of insanity. The result will always be the same. That right to resist does not lessen the horror or repugnance of the results of that resistance. Particularly when the resistance is aimed directly at civilians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud Posted March 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Riiight. And the Allied governments that ordered air strikes et al that resulted in regrettable civilian deaths were no different from the Nazis who ordered the gassing of civilians. riiight. comparing this situation to the war between the nasiz and allied forces is as idiotic as trying to compare canadians settling in u.s.a with jewish settlers in the west bank (a la dancer). you guys really suck at these analogies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 riiight. comparing this situation to the war between the nasiz and allied forces is as idiotic as trying to compare canadians settling in u.s.a with jewish settlers in the west bank (a la dancer). you guys really suck at these analogies. It's not a matter of comparing the war between the nazis and the allied forces, it's about comparing governments that order military strikes that sometimes result in regrettable civilian deaths to groups that order the death of civilians. It's about your claim that there's no difference between the two. You really suck at comprehending what the issue is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud Posted March 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 No question about the right to resist. OTOH in this case it has always been a losing strategy. Its like the classic definition of insanity. The result will always be the same. so basically, what you're saying is that the palestinians have to choose how they'll be f*cked by israel. either allow the occupier to bully them by taking whatever land they want, have control over their movement, water and giving up on basic rights or fight against it, which will result in more deaths. the palestinians tried the whole peaceful thing after the arab states were beaten and gave up in trying to save them. the peaceful route did not work. they really do have only 2 options at the moment. unless of course, the western governments are pressured into and stop supporting the israeli government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonsa Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 so basically, what you're saying is that the palestinians have to choose how they'll be f*cked by israel. either allow the occupier to bully them by taking whatever land they want, have control over their movement, water and giving up on basic rights or fight against it, which will result in more deaths. the palestinians tried the whole peaceful thing after the arab states were beaten and gave up in trying to save them. the peaceful route did not work. they really do have only 2 options at the moment. unless of course, the western governments are pressured into and stop supporting the israeli government. Well, they are already getting fucked royally and have been since 1948. If not by the Israelis, then by their arab league brethren or their own leadership. Their attacks only create more bullying. Hence my insanity analogy. Hasn't worked, doesn't work and wont work. I must have completely missed the palestinians trying that whole peaceful route thing? Unless you are refering to implementation of Oslo and the creation of the PA. IIRC, things started to go their way a little, until Arafat fucked them once again. And I keep hearing this whine about western governments stopping support for Israel. Its like palestinian demands for full right of return - IT AINT GONNA HAPPEN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 No question about the right to resist. OTOH in this case it has always been a losing strategy. Its like the classic definition of insanity. The result will always be the same. That right to resist does not lessen the horror or repugnance of the results of that resistance. Particularly when the resistance is aimed directly at civilians. The problem is that there IS no winning strategy. During times of very few attacks by palestinians colonization of their land has actually increased. Theyre pretty much screwed no matter what they do. Israel wants that land and the resources on it, and their strong enough to keep taking it. What palestinians do is pretty much besides the point. Theyre doing roughly the same thing anyone else would do in those circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 The problem is that there IS no winning strategy. During times of very few attacks by palestinians colonization of their land has actually increased. Theyre pretty much screwed no matter what they do. Israel wants that land and the resources on it, and their strong enough to keep taking it. What palestinians do is pretty much besides the point. Theyre doing roughly the same thing anyone else would do in those circumstances. It sucks when one loses the war one started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 It sucks when one loses the war one started. Very few of the people in the occupied territories were even alive when the war started. Millions of people. You dont think they should have a place to live, but I guess they feel different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Very few of the people in the occupied territories were even alive when the war started. Millions of people. You dont think they should have a place to live, but I guess they feel different. Sure they deserve a place. It's called Jordan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Sure they deserve a place. It's called Jordan. Congratulations, you just endorsed ethnic cleansing. Youre absolutely no different that Palestinian extremists who think Jews dont have a right to live there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scouterjim Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 GAZA - Israeli air strikes and shelling killed nine Palestinians in the Gaza Strip on Tuesday, medical officials said, in the deadliest day of conflict in the enclave in months. Palestinian medical officials said three youths aged 12, 16 and 17 who were playing football and an adult relative were killed by Israeli shelling, and five militants were killed later in two separate air strikes elsewhere in the Gaza Strip. more it's not okay to condemn the bus bombing that killed a civilian and then not condemn the shelling that killed civilians. the israeli government is no different than groups who order bus bombings. Israeli foreign policy: Do as I say, not as I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Congratulations, you just endorsed ethnic cleansing. Youre absolutely no different that Palestinian extremists who think Jews dont have a right to live there. Calm down there, sport...best check your history books as to who claimed the WB then hung the population out to dry (see: Jordan). As well, I'm all for Jewish settlers becoming part of a new state in the area known these days as the West Bank (of the Jordan). Judging by your above response, so are you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Israeli foreign policy: Do as I say, not as I do. Israeli foreign policy. Do not trust those that would see you dead in a heartbeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonsa Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 The problem is that there IS no winning strategy. During times of very few attacks by palestinians colonization of their land has actually increased. Theyre pretty much screwed no matter what they do. Israel wants that land and the resources on it, and their strong enough to keep taking it. What palestinians do is pretty much besides the point. Theyre doing roughly the same thing anyone else would do in those circumstances. Sorry, but there are winning strategies. There just hasn't been sufficient vision courage and leadership amongst the palestinian people. And at this stage with the split between Fatah and hamas a peaceful resolution and establishment of the palestinian nation ain't gonna happen. So lets see some unifying leadership, some real support for democratic process, renunciation of Islamist bullshit. The Palestinians are the losers, they have been consistent losers, and will remain losers until they figure out that losers don't dictate terms. Losers compromise and try to get their need to haves in order to survive and grow. They have to swallow their pride and forget about getting the nice to haves and the wish to haves and the hope to haves. Get what you need and build your own future. Palstinians don't seem to understand this simple principle of life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonsa Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Israeli foreign policy: Do as I say, not as I do. Its not foreign policy its occupation policy. and its do it to me and I'll give back to you in spades. Disproportionate response. A fundamental Israeli doctrine for the past 40 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Get what you need and build your own future. Palstinians don't seem to understand this simple principle of life. A lot of folks will be looking for new jobs if peace breaks out (UNRWA, et al). Plus it's hard to keep a good terrorist on the farm after the thrill of duking it out with the Zionist Entity every day...day after day...year after year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Sorry, but there are winning strategies. There just hasn't been sufficient vision courage and leadership amongst the palestinian people. And at this stage with the split between Fatah and hamas a peaceful resolution and establishment of the palestinian nation ain't gonna happen. So lets see some unifying leadership, some real support for democratic process, renunciation of Islamist bullshit. The Palestinians are the losers, they have been consistent losers, and will remain losers until they figure out that losers don't dictate terms. Losers compromise and try to get their need to haves in order to survive and grow. They have to swallow their pride and forget about getting the nice to haves and the wish to haves and the hope to haves. Get what you need and build your own future. Palstinians don't seem to understand this simple principle of life. No there are no winning strategies. And the PA has offered to compromise on lots of key issues including Jerusalem, right of return. And they are probably the most moderate palestinian authority in history. Israel has responded by ramping up settlement development even though they knew full well it would scuttle negotiations. The palestinians are quite simply fucked no matter WHAT they do. Even if palestinians were completely peacefull Israeli policy wouldnt change. In fact if it werent for palestinian resistance Israel probably would have formally annexed all that land by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Even if palestinians were completely peacefull Israeli policy wouldnt change. There's yer rub, though. The so-called Palestinians were never ever peaceful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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