Evening Star Posted March 19, 2011 Report Posted March 19, 2011 The ex-hooker is not the story, though of course, all the papers have mentioned her, some with pictures. But how the profits of the company were structured is irrelevant, as is her history and age and alleged bustyness. The only question in play is did the former insider lobby the government before the 5 year limit. That's it, that's all. Yeah, I'm actually pretty amazed that all the news outlets have seen fit to report on McPherson's age and background. Quote
Molly Posted March 19, 2011 Report Posted March 19, 2011 Self-sacrificing? A self-sacrificing politician? A large proportion? What do you consider large? 1%? Anecdotally, comfortably in excess of 90%. A lot get massaged into playing roles they want no part of, PDQ, because they are idealistic enough not to see it coming or know how to stop it. The manipulative slimeballs are far fewer, and the larger number of those prefer to work in the shadows... or at least are forced to work in the shadows, because they've already been caught once or more and thus can't get elected. They can, however, go to work for birds of the same feather whose lapses of integrity have not been publicly noted...yet. Quote "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" — L. Frank Baum "For Conservatives, ministerial responsibility seems to be a temporary and constantly shifting phenomenon," -- Goodale
Mr.Canada Posted March 19, 2011 Report Posted March 19, 2011 Who cares. People are free to do what they want when not working. Unless PM Harper was using an escort service and charging it to the taxpayer I don't care what adults do in their private time for the most part. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
capricorn Posted March 19, 2011 Report Posted March 19, 2011 An interesting angle to this situation is the push back by the Assembly of First Nations. But he also fell afoul of the Assembly of First Nations, a national aboriginal advocacy group, and a friend, National Chief Shawn Atleo. The two had been appointed in 2007 to co-chair a joint task force on First Nations specific claims.It soon got round to the Assembly of First Nations that the longtime operative in Ottawa and at Queen’s Park under former premier Mike Harris was making claims that the AFN and Atleo had given their endorsements to H2O’s water filtration products, which the firm was pitching to the Mohawks of Quinte Bay, which includes the Tyendinaga reserve, just west of Kingston. This resulted in a veiled warning in an email from the AFN, described by one official as a type of “cease-and-desist” letter, sent to Carson on Oct. 8, 2010. “I want to make it clear that the AFN does not endorse any product nor accept any liability on the performance of the product marketed by H2O Pros,” wrote Irving Leblanc, the group’s housing, infrastructure and water specialist. http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/955632--escort-linked-to-scandal-involving-ex-pmo-official?bn=1 AFN Chief Atleo appears to be up to his ears in the controversy. While Atleo said he cut all ties with Carson in October, the company had a booth at the special chiefs assembly in December, where they also co-sponsored a table with Carson’s Canada School of Energy and Environment.On Valentine’s Day of this year Atleo and his wife joined Carson and McPherson. Bank records show Hill was there too and paid a nearly $600 tab but didn’t sit with the two couples. Atleo said he paid for his meal and that of his wife. A well connected First Nation source told APTN Atleo believed Carson was his bridge to the PMO. Atleo has repeatedly denied that, saying he already has a direct relationship with the prime minister. http://aptn.ca/pages/news/2011/03/18/carsons-valentines-day-meal-with-atleo-and-the-pitch-to-mike-holmes/ I'm certain there's more to come from APTN on this angle. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
Scotty Posted March 19, 2011 Report Posted March 19, 2011 With Harper being such a control freak, it makes you wonder about his judgement in having this guy as a top advisor given his extremely coloured history... I assume he was presented as a capable guy who worked in Mulroney's office and did a great job for him. Did Harper know that he was disbarred and went to jail twenty five years or so ago? I dunno. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted March 19, 2011 Report Posted March 19, 2011 Anecdotally, comfortably in excess of 90%. A lot get massaged into playing roles they want no part of, PDQ, because they are idealistic enough not to see it coming or know how to stop it. Would you care to speculate why virtually every one I see on TV comes across as a slimy, dishonest, self-serving dullard eager only to make themselves look good? I don't remember the last time I heard a politician advance a cause or case and thought he or she was being honest. Hell, I don't remember the last time I even thought one was smart. You think these people would all be making more money elsewhere? I have considerable doubt. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
scribblet Posted March 19, 2011 Report Posted March 19, 2011 I assume he was presented as a capable guy who worked in Mulroney's office and did a great job for him. Did Harper know that he was disbarred and went to jail twenty five years or so ago? I dunno. Me neither, maybe he didn't as he even worked for Joe Clarke did he not? It's possible all employers thought that since he'd served his time paying his debt to society and so on, he should be given another chance. Don't forget also, that "Mr. Carson is now a private citizen and his actions relate to his activities as a private citizen." Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
Shakeyhands Posted March 19, 2011 Report Posted March 19, 2011 I guess this is the usual MO... Keep going till you get caught. Shades of Jaffer and his meetings. Multiple meetings took place Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
kimmy Posted March 19, 2011 Report Posted March 19, 2011 I guess this is the usual MO... Keep going till you get caught. Shades of Jaffer and his meetings. Multiple meetings took place Did Jaffer break lobbying rules? -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
Saipan Posted March 19, 2011 Report Posted March 19, 2011 "Ex" means past, i.e. no longer it. Chretien's son was dealing drugs. Not his ex-son Quote
Shakeyhands Posted March 19, 2011 Report Posted March 19, 2011 Did Jaffer break lobbying rules? -k What they both did was use their influence to garner meetings that you and I wouldn't get as members of the public at large. I'd say they were both guilty of influence peddling. Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
kimmy Posted March 19, 2011 Report Posted March 19, 2011 What they both did was use their influence to garner meetings that you and I wouldn't get as members of the public at large. I'd say they were both guilty of influence peddling. What meetings did Jaffer garner? -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
Saipan Posted March 19, 2011 Report Posted March 19, 2011 OK, so the Libs had AdScam. What clever 'scam' titles can you think of for this little faux paw? Why not leave it to the actual judge, instead TV "Court"??? That's how it works in democracy. Quote
Scotty Posted March 19, 2011 Report Posted March 19, 2011 (edited) Me neither, maybe he didn't as he even worked for Joe Clarke did he not? It's possible all employers thought that since he'd served his time paying his debt to society and so on, he should be given another chance. Don't forget also, that "Mr. Carson is now a private citizen and his actions relate to his activities as a private citizen." No, there had to be a starting point. That would be Mulroney. If he worked in Mulroney's office the RCMP would have done a background check on him and presented it to Mulroney. And his criminal history wasn't as distant then. He should never have been allowed into the PMO at that time. However, I can see where having worked there for years he'd have been accepted by Clark and Harper without additional checks. Or if they knew, well, it was twenty five years ago. Edited March 19, 2011 by Scotty Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
guyser Posted March 19, 2011 Report Posted March 19, 2011 What meetings did Jaffer garner? -k Bloody few , one with Environment Minister , or his aide, Transport Minister aide about funding,and using Parliamentary email account of his wifes. Phone calls made from her office,party logo on his website. Quote
kimmy Posted March 19, 2011 Report Posted March 19, 2011 Bloody few , one with Environment Minister , or his aide, Transport Minister aide about funding,and using Parliamentary email account of his wifes. Phone calls made from her office,party logo on his website. My recollection, and I could be mistaken so feel free to correct me, is that the grand sum of "meetings" Jaffer had with government officials consisted of attending the same Christmas party as somebody with the environment ministry. There's no doubt that Jaffer tried to use his history with the Conservative Party to try to dupe prospective clients into thinking he had influence with the government, but there's no evidence that he actually had any. It doesn't appear that anybody with the Conservatives would have even crossed the street to meet Rahim unless it were to kick him in the nuts. In short, I'm of the belief that the version Shakey is offering doesn't actually coincide with the facts. As for Bruce Carson, we shall see. He's had meetings with people from DIA, so we'll have to see what comes of that, and whether that's in violation of the rules. In the meantime, however, there's clearly some misconceptions going around. We had people on this forum screaming that Kory Teneyke was breaking lobbying regulations by working for a company that was applying for a license from the CRTC, for example. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
Shakeyhands Posted March 19, 2011 Report Posted March 19, 2011 My recollection, and I could be mistaken so feel free to correct me, is that the grand sum of "meetings" Jaffer had with government officials consisted of attending the same Christmas party as somebody with the environment ministry. There's no doubt that Jaffer tried to use his history with the Conservative Party to try to dupe prospective clients into thinking he had influence with the government, but there's no evidence that he actually had any. It doesn't appear that anybody with the Conservatives would have even crossed the street to meet Rahim unless it were to kick him in the nuts. In short, I'm of the belief that the version Shakey is offering doesn't actually coincide with the facts. As for Bruce Carson, we shall see. He's had meetings with people from DIA, so we'll have to see what comes of that, and whether that's in violation of the rules. In the meantime, however, there's clearly some misconceptions going around. We had people on this forum screaming that Kory Teneyke was breaking lobbying regulations by working for a company that was applying for a license from the CRTC, for example. -k There had been at least one meeting with Jaffer and Prentice aide Wengler, this much came out at committee. It's likely safe enough to assume other conversations took place. If we want to classify those as "meetings"... well... Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
guyser Posted March 19, 2011 Report Posted March 19, 2011 My recollection, and I could be mistaken so feel free to correct me, is that the grand sum of "meetings" Jaffer had with government officials consisted of attending the same Christmas party as somebody with the environment ministry. He met Environment Minister staff in Guergis' office. Sam place as Transport Minister aide. There's no doubt that Jaffer tried to use his history with the Conservative Party to try to dupe prospective clients into thinking he had influence with the government, but there's no evidence that he actually had any. It doesn't appear that anybody with the Conservatives would have even crossed the street to meet Rahim unless it were to kick him in the nuts. No doubt. But does any outisder know that? Thus the reason for the optics. It is for all intents , the optics that are the problem. The optics of having an old guy convicted fraudster begging for cash, all the while shacking up with a 22 yr old (damn him anyway) having been in the closest room to the PMO is hard to shake. Add that to the stench of Mulroney and his cash grab (same guy worked with him) and we are were we are. Looking at this and going.....hmmm...... Quote
jbg Posted March 19, 2011 Report Posted March 19, 2011 The former advisor to the PM, is being investigated by the RCMP, for lobbying for water contracts to an Ottawa based water company were his girlfriend works, who also is an escort. The young 22 year old would get 20% of the gross sales and even though Harper called the RCMP out on this, did he have any choice? BTW, he doesn't have a license to lobby. http://aptn.ca/pages/news/2011/03/17/former-harper-advisor-had-deal-with-escort-on-first-nations-water-deals-document/ Your point being? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Saipan Posted March 20, 2011 Report Posted March 20, 2011 I'm thinking Mr Harper should just have the RCMP investigators hang out at his office... sure would save a bunch of gas! What happen in his office? Sponsorgate? Quote
Saipan Posted March 20, 2011 Report Posted March 20, 2011 Add that to the stench of Mulroney and his cash grab And the stench is liberal envy that cost Canadian taxpayers quite a few millions. Btw, unlike Liberals, Mulroney didn't steal taxpayers money. Quote
Wild Bill Posted March 20, 2011 Report Posted March 20, 2011 What happen in his office? Sponsorgate? More likely "close, but no cigar..." Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Scotty Posted March 20, 2011 Report Posted March 20, 2011 There had been at least one meeting with Jaffer and Prentice aide Wengler, this much came out at committee. It's likely safe enough to assume other conversations took place. If we want to classify those as "meetings"... well... The rules don't say that once you quit the government you become a national pariah and can't make use of the same services all Canadians make use of. Ie, do you think every single meeting a cabinet minister, or for that matter, his underlings, or officials in his department hold is solely due to political influence? These people meet with their constituents - and by that I mean people involved in that area they represent, all the time, every day. It doesn't necessarily mean there's any political influence at work. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Saipan Posted March 20, 2011 Report Posted March 20, 2011 What they both did was use their influence to garner meetings that you and I wouldn't get as members of the public at large. I'd say they were both guilty of influence peddling. You mean like Chretien twisting arm of a bank manager to give unqualified loan to Chretien's friend so they can make better hotel deals? Quote
ToadBrother Posted March 20, 2011 Report Posted March 20, 2011 (edited) And the stench is liberal envy that cost Canadian taxpayers quite a few millions. Btw, unlike Liberals, Mulroney didn't steal taxpayers money. Yeah, he just took money from shady German businessmen. That's Brian Mulroney, Mr. Ethics himself. Edited March 20, 2011 by ToadBrother Quote
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