dre Posted March 17, 2011 Report Posted March 17, 2011 Neither could the most "powerful" nation on earth (e.g Katrina). This is not a step function...it takes time to ramp up relief efforts. Youre right it takes time. But with Katrina the response and preparation were both just flat out botched. The US could have averted most of the catastrophe relatively easily. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
ToadBrother Posted March 17, 2011 Report Posted March 17, 2011 Youre right it takes time. But with Katrina the response and preparation were both just flat out botched. The US could have averted most of the catastrophe relatively easily. They could have perhaps got more people out, but geology is not in New Orleans' favor. I remember there even being talk at one point after Katrina that maybe large chunks of the city should be abandoned. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 17, 2011 Report Posted March 17, 2011 Naaa, couldn't be, it's the centre of the universe don't you know.. It's the center of something. Not much of a "player" are you? Cards or dice? OK, I'll bite... Who or what is a Gordon Gecko? I rest my case. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
dre Posted March 17, 2011 Report Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) They could have perhaps got more people out, but geology is not in New Orleans' favor. I remember there even being talk at one point after Katrina that maybe large chunks of the city should be abandoned. They saw the thing coming for days, and it was known in advance that the levis were not designed for a cat 5 storm. Contrast what happened down there with what happens in places like Cuba that have to handle hurricanes all the time. When theres big hurricanes there the president address the entire nation on TV while the storm is still way off shore and recommends that certain areas be evacuated, then mobilized the military to assist in the evactuation. These efforts spin up within hours. Residents are then evacuated to pre-prepared shelters that are already stocked with food and medical supplies, and communities are kept together so that for example the same doctors and nurses that work in a community are able to set up shop seeing the same patients. Last time a cat 5 storm hit Cuba 1.5 million people were evacuated before the storm hit, and even though 20 000 homes were destroyed not a single life was lost. http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=477160e9955994fc7719f04c20888384 Its not a stretch at all to say that loss of life from Katrina could have been almost completely avoided with a little common sense and some decisive leadership. Japan... not so easy. Unlike a hurricane, with a tsunami you dont get 3 or 4 days to evacuate, prepare, and fortify. You get 30 or 40 minutes. I would give officials there a c+ or a b as opposed to the f- local, state, and federal officials got in New Orleans. Edited March 17, 2011 by dre Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 18, 2011 Report Posted March 18, 2011 Its not a stretch at all to say that loss of life from Katrina could have been almost completely avoided with a little common sense and some decisive leadership. This is not true given widespread refusals to evacuate. Some fatalities were inevitable. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Post To The Left Posted March 18, 2011 Report Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) NHK is reporting that at power has been restored to the nuclear plant and that at least one of the reactor's primary cooling system will go online tonight. There are also going to try and do the same with the number two reactor. Also the water cannon's have arrived and been used. NHK is reporting that when water was sprayed into the problem reactor steam emerged indicating that the water is reaching the needed areas in the reactor. Edited March 18, 2011 by Post To The Left Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 18, 2011 Report Posted March 18, 2011 NHK is reporting that at power has been restored to the nuclear plant and that at least one of the reactor's primary cooling system will go online tonight. There are also going to try and do the same with the number two reactor. Also the water cannon's from the police riots vans have arrived and been used. NHK is reporting that when water was sprayed into the problem reactor steam emerged indicating that the water is reaching the needed areas in the reactor. Right....they may have turned the corner on this. If all the water had flashed off it is not obvious. Go Japan!!! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
jbg Posted March 18, 2011 Report Posted March 18, 2011 Right....they may have turned the corner on this. If all the water had flashed off it is not obvious. Go Japan!!! For a minority view on how even a worst case scenario may play out... (link) Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
GostHacked Posted March 18, 2011 Report Posted March 18, 2011 For a minority view on how even a worst case scenario may play out... (link) The worst case scenario has already played out. Quote
jbg Posted March 18, 2011 Report Posted March 18, 2011 The worst case scenario has already played out. The point is that more people die at in a typical Palestinian freedom fight than have died of radiation in Japan from this incident. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
dre Posted March 18, 2011 Report Posted March 18, 2011 The worst case scenario has already played out. I think its pretty bad but the worst scenario would be a complete meltdown of fuel rods, fully compromised containment vessels and a major explosion/fire to help dispurse corium into the atmosphere. It looks like this will be avoided. Theres no need to use absolutes like "worst" here, but clearly this is a major disaster. It will be many years before we even know how bad it is... these reactors will all have to be replaced now at a huge cost, and the cost of cleaning up these sites and repurposing them will be literally astronomical. Its no secret that nuclear power isnt a great way generate electricity with todays technology but the problem is some of these countries dont have a lot of options, especially when these plants were built. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
GostHacked Posted March 18, 2011 Report Posted March 18, 2011 The point is that more people die at in a typical Palestinian freedom fight than have died of radiation in Japan from this incident. Horrible comparison really. The deaths from radiation will increase, not everyone is going to die quick. dre I'd just encase them in cement and be done with it. Unless the cleanup can be done with remote vehicles, you might as well be living in Prypat. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 18, 2011 Report Posted March 18, 2011 I think its pretty bad but the worst scenario would be a complete meltdown of fuel rods, fully compromised containment vessels and a major explosion/fire to help dispurse corium into the atmosphere. It looks like this will be avoided.... I can't wait for the movie...I love a happy ending! Sorry Captains Gloom and Doom, the world isn't going to end this time either. Better pray for a comet impact instead. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GWiz Posted March 18, 2011 Report Posted March 18, 2011 I can't wait for the movie...I love a happy ending! Sorry Captains Gloom and Doom, the world isn't going to end this time either. Better pray for a comet impact instead. Ya know, funny thing is, I don't hear any fat ladies singing yet... Maybe it isn't over? Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
wyly Posted March 18, 2011 Report Posted March 18, 2011 Horrible comparison really. The deaths from radiation will increase, not everyone is going to die quick. absolutely, I believe some 30 or so people at chernobyl at the time of the incident but I've heard estimates of those who will die 20, 30, 40yrs later from cancer may be as many as a million...but the cancer death from radiation can't be determined other than by higher than normal rates in the population...I'd just encase them in cement and be done with it. Unless the cleanup can be done with remote vehicles, you might as well be living in Prypat.I agree, this plant was scheduled to be closed and the sea water cooling guaranteed it could never be used again so why not do what the russians did and bury it... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 18, 2011 Report Posted March 18, 2011 Ya know, funny thing is, I don't hear any fat ladies singing yet... Maybe it isn't over? That's the difference between you and me....you always expect to lose! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Post To The Left Posted March 18, 2011 Report Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) absolutely, I believe some 30 or so people at chernobyl at the time of the incident but I've heard estimates of those who will die 20, 30, 40yrs later from cancer may be as many as a million...but the cancer death from radiation can't be determined other than by higher than normal rates in the population... Chernobyl had HUGE radiation levels as well as a giant fire to spread the radiated material throught Europe. Japanese reactors never had a large fire, and the radiation was minimal. It peaked at what 900 mSv for a few hours. Staff that were present you'd assume were wearing protective clothing minimizing any radiation exposure. The New York Times today reported that US military planes confirmed what little radiation did escape has not spread from the localized area around the plant, although even with this good news they're being typically pessimistic about the plant. My understanding is there isn't much around the plant and those close enough to be affected were evacuated even before the hydrogen explosions. Wind has consistently been blowing out to sea. Unless there is some sort of secret rave you know about next to the nuclear plant I don't see all these people that are going to get radiation sickness. Once they start hooking up the plants primary cooling systems today the "crisis" will fade. Update: At noon today NHK is reporting last night night the radiation was 292μSv this morning it is 271μSv. To convert the radiation you can do that at this site. By comparison when Chernobyl blew its top in a giant explosion according to the site above there was a 10,189,730 μSv radiation reading. Edited March 18, 2011 by Post To The Left Quote
GWiz Posted March 18, 2011 Report Posted March 18, 2011 That's the difference between you and me....you always expect to lose! Hmmm, here's the thing though, one can't lose what one never had... Ergo, I can't possibly lose, since I never had anything to lose, did you? Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 18, 2011 Report Posted March 18, 2011 Hmmm, here's the thing though, one can't lose what one never had... Ergo, I can't possibly lose, since I never had anything to lose, did you? Yes...I am a stockholder! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GWiz Posted March 18, 2011 Report Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) Yes...I am a stockholder! I'm not! I WIN! Edited March 18, 2011 by GWiz Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
GostHacked Posted March 18, 2011 Report Posted March 18, 2011 Well this gives youo an idea on how slow some of the MSM is reporting things. A few pages pack I linked Fox and RT saying the Japanese officials moved the severity up to a 6 just below the 7 that was Chernobyl. http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=18236&view=findpost&p=639930 Now we see this.... http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/18/japan.nuclear.reactors/index.html?hpt=T1 Tokyo (CNN) -- Japan's nuclear and industrial safety agency on Friday raised the level for the crisis at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant from a 4 to 5 -- putting it on par with the 1979 incident at Pennsylvania's Three Mile Island. So many conflicting reports, so much missing information, also CNN seems to be a few days behind in reporting things. So if you all are dependent on this info, then you are being miss informed for sure. And you can still read the other articles that state it was moved to a 5 from a 4, when previously, it went from a 1 to a 6. Someone is playing with the numbers, and the lives of people. Quote
Post To The Left Posted March 18, 2011 Report Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) Another update on NHK with 19μSv radiation reading at the Fukushima nuclear plant. This compares to when Chernobyl blew its top in a giant highly radiated explosion according to the site there was a 10,189,730 μSv radiation reading. oh it's not Chernobyl, and it's quickly approaching that stage. How! How is it approaching Chernobyl? If a nuke plant in the USA was going through this issue, none of you asshats would be laughing. None of you. As long as it's not in your back yard, none of you give a shit. It is my back yard! I sit in Japan while you sit comfortably in your house far, far away and try and convince people that Chernobyl is happening RIGHT NOW! EVERYONE PANIC! Edited March 18, 2011 by Post To The Left Quote
GostHacked Posted March 18, 2011 Report Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) Another update on NHK with 19μSv radiation reading at the Fukushima nuclear plant. This compares to when Chernobyl blew its top in a giant explosion according to the site above there was a 10,189,730 μSv radiation reading. How! How is it approaching Chernobyl? It is my back yard! I sit in Japan while you sit comfortably in your house far, far away and try and convince people that Chernobyl is happening RIGHT NOW! EVERYONE PANIC! Again forgive me if I don't believe you, your track record in this thread alone has been dismal at best. Just to add, none of the towers blew up at 3-mile Island - Fukushima had 4 towers blow. .. the spent fuel rods were not stored at 3-mile Island - Fukichima stored 40 years of spent fuel rods on top of the reactors which blew up. Edited March 18, 2011 by GostHacked Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 18, 2011 Report Posted March 18, 2011 Another update on NHK with 19μSv radiation reading at the Fukushima nuclear plant. This compares to when Chernobyl blew its top in a giant highly radiated explosion according to the site there was a 10,189,730 μSv radiation reading. Great post...I have been following this at NHK World News as well. It is my back yard! I sit in Japan while you sit comfortably in your house far, far away and try and convince people that Chernobyl is happening RIGHT NOW! EVERYONE PANIC! Thanks for the updates with a very local perspective! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GWiz Posted March 18, 2011 Report Posted March 18, 2011 The way I see it is that EVERYBODY has it wrong... It's a work in progress and it won't be known for days yet what the actual level of catastrophy the Fukushima nuclear plant produced/produces... One can't go by what one sees from Japan either... The Japanese are the most stoic and resilient population in the world as evidenced by taking this tremendous triple hit of an 8.9 Earthquake, a 30 METER high Tsunami and a multiple nuclear reactor incident, the level of which is still to be determined... Had all this happened, say on the west coast of the US, the world as we know it would technically cease to exist... In Japan it is simply something more that that amazing nation has to overcome, and I can assure you, they will... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
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