Mayor Ford to nix Pride Funding!

[Oleg Bach]

My "bias is direct and up front and never hidden" _ hum - almost a compliment. So what is bias? Is it a leaning towards something or a preference or an orientation? To me a bias is the right to think what ever I want...yesterday my x wife invited me for supper _ I got real BIAS and said that I did not want to run into any of her cronies...because my bias judgement of people is quite accurate _ and her judgement has historically been horrifically poor.....so she said forget it.....well.......It seems that there is no love there - Because of my bias which is my way of thinking she did not feed me -----That sounds more like domination rather than love - She may as well have said - "If you don't think the way I do you can go hungry" _ I guess I should have faked it after looking at the menu - to see if it was worth selling my intergirty.

[Rue]

It doesn't bother me if you call me a goy, Peace.

Lol. Shalom. Wuzza matter I scare you?

[Oleg Bach]

Lol. Shalom. Wuzza matter I scare you?

Why is it that the Jews get who are traditional get to refere to non-Jews as goys (cattle) - yet no one calls them racist? Moooo.

[Black Dog]

Oh look the third muskateer rides in to save his bosom buddies of leftist propriety from the onslaught of the garbled Jew. Lol.

You sure told me. Boy I sure know my place now Bwana.

I'm not sure if you think this stuff is clever or biting or if you think it advances your argument (er...whatever that may be; I doubt you even know at this point), but you should be aware that, to everyone else, it makes you look pathetic. Not to mention a bit racist.

Edited July 6, 2011 by Black Dog

[bloodyminded]

Lol. Shalom. Wuzza matter I scare you?

What are you talking about?

[Rue]

1-I don't quite get the hatred for everything to the Left of Pinochet, frankly, but of course life goes on.

2-(Why would you object to being termed a homophobe if you were one? Anyway.)

3-However, I restate that you're 100%, dead wrong about my antisemitism.

Peace.

In regards to 1, lol, don; try hide in a larger group called leftists and make you and them all out to be a target of my unjust attacks. Enough with the hiding in groups. I can't stand trendy leftists who have no problem using a double standard against Jews-it does not mean I hate all leftists. I have already also made it clear I hate everyone unlike you who has no hate. I have never met a human that I did not dislike for some reason. It really means very little. If you want to paint me as intolerant of course I am. I have never claimed to be anything but intolerant. This is a forum to challenge thoughts and beliefs. If I want to make nice

I will join Hari Krishna and go on a brown rice diet.

In regards to 2, you calling me a homophobe was not the issue. You calling me a homophobe because I was being deliberately satirical in light of the context of claiming people who are anti semitic who are gay can hide behind their gayness to shield them for accountability for their anti semitic words was.

Of course I am a homophobe. One of my closet friends died of AIDS and I could not visit him in his last days because I was not good at expressing my emotions. I met the man before he came out and knew him many years after. On one level it made no difference. In fact when he announced his gayness a whole bunch of us had seizures laughing because it was such a huge thing to him and we already knew he was gay. For phack's sake he shared the top floor of a house with this knock out female room mate coming on to him and he was only concerned with a certain person on the football yeam. Lol. It was funny when he came out. Years later though no I had no clue how to show emotions with him when he was dying and he understood that. That to me was classic homophobia-I don't hide it. I don't hide as much as at one level I support and consider gays equals on another level I am just a stupid man brought up in an area where we were not taught to cry and we feel uncomfortable about certain things. It does not make us homophobes but its no big deal to gays because we don't hate them over it, it just makes us have biases over certain things. They have no problems with out biases because we are not hating them over it. You understand that?

For me, for you to say I am a homophobe is therefore not the issue. Saying I would deliberately hate gays is. They have the exact same political battle as Jews. In fact they are so similiar to us in how they have used humour, art, culture, to connect to their collective sense of oppression and turn their survival into

a display of creation and positivity. If anyone understands Jews its gays. They like us refuse to let hatred of them turn them into

hateful people and that is why this QUIAA issue has rung such a bell. It is done at a time and place where gays are try inspiring us all to just be what we are. It is not the time and place to

carry out partisan political campaigns.

I know the founder of QUIAA. I have heard the references about Jews that came out of his mouth when he had no public audience. This is not about simple politics. This is about people with an agenda to promote a violent strain of politics.

However you are right I have exhausted that topic.

3-In regards to how you feel about any group, I could care less. I again state, if you support the QUIAA platform or take on a position where you tell me I must stand by and say nothing while they make gay Jews feel unwelcome, I will challenge what you are supporting as being anti-semitic, now matter how morally righteous you may feel you are.

There are many forms of anti-semitism. No simply being anti Zionist by itself is not one of them-supporting groups that seize public events of inclusivity to demonize Jews is anti-semitic.

[Black Dog]

For me, for you to say I am a homophobe is therefore not the issue. Saying I would deliberately hate gays is.

What do you think homophobia is?

I know the founder of QUIAA. I have heard the references about Jews that came out of his mouth when he had no public audience.

Suuuuure.

I again state, if you support the QUIAA platform or take on a position where you tell me I must stand by and say nothing while they make gay Jews feel unwelcome, I will challenge what you are supporting as being anti-semitic, now matter how morally righteous you may feel you are.

So "making Jews feel unwelcome" is antisemetism now? man the bar is getting lower and lower by the minute.

There are many forms of anti-semitism. No simply being anti Zionist by itself is not one of them-supporting groups that seize public events of inclusivity to demonize Jews is anti-semitic.

Well it's a good thing there are no groups demonizing Jews in this discussion.

[Oleg Bach]

(that's a burka on that face)

Goy is yiddish and singular for one who lives outside the ghetto.

In this case I could have referred to him as gentile but goy get's

him all upset at the fact he shits white bread.

Is goy like gay?

[bloodyminded]

3-In regards to how you feel about any group, I could care less. I again state, if you support the QUIAA platform or take on a position where you tell me I must stand by and say nothing while they make gay Jews feel unwelcome, I will challenge what you are supporting as being anti-semitic, now matter how morally righteous you may feel you are.

There are many forms of anti-semitism. No simply being anti Zionist by itself is not one of them-supporting groups that seize public events of inclusivity to demonize Jews is anti-semitic.

A civil person knows how to accept an olive branch when he sees one. But Rue? Not a chance.

Well, as I was willing to let the matter go, but you aren't, I must reiterate to you that I find it really, really galling when an anti-semite like yourself refers to me as an anti-semite. The hypocrisy is remarkable.

Also, after all your screeching about not being a homophobe--you now freely admit to being a goddamn homophobe!

And to think I was actually starting to believe your refutations! My bad.

Oh...and I just love your "some of my best friends..." bit, Rue. Really awesome. AIDS and all. Sure, man, whatever. Some of us actually know people who have died from AIDS...you'll note we don't bring it up as part of a hostile, polticized debate about other matters.

To you, it's part of your perverse political theatre.

So, you hate gays, and you hate liberals, and you hate Jews most of all.

Well done.

Edited July 6, 2011 by bloodyminded

[Oleg Bach]

Soon as the disease of hate enters ones being - it is a slow rot and eventual demise of the hater - bad choice of mindset.

[Rue]

In response to your latest comments:

"look, if you don't even understand coomon English expressions like "tit-for-tat," and misread them as something else...well, that's not my fault. It's isn't the Oppressor Goys and the Evil Gays who make you uneducated."

I have no idea what the above means. Also I know you have tits.

"They aren't spouting hatred. You are."

The QUIAA spouts and spews anti-semitic diatribes against Jews and Israel and I challenge them despite your trying to sanitize what they say or suggest because I challenge them I am hateful. In fact all you do is show you try demonize me for defending Jews and the public from the hatred of the QUIAA. Go ahead.

"Certainly I have no clue how to defend anti-semitism, nor would I wish to do so, and nor do I understand why anyone would."

No but you come on this forum and re-state the QUIAA as not being anti-semite and me being hateful because I challenge their anti-semitism. Right.

"That sounds like you just made a pronouncement and so think it must be so."

Unlike you Bloody when I state a subjective opinion I make it clear it is, I don't present it as a fact as you do. I have stated numerous times that I believe the QUIAA platform and agenda is blatant anti-semtitic hate mongering and if you want to defend it and argue taxpayers should fund it, that makes you a champion of anti-semitism let alone having tax payers have to fund such displays.

You asked:

"Then how do you explain that you oppose this group, and yet remain an anti-semite yourself?"

In this response, you name call me quite a few times that I am an anti-semite. You provide no words to show what I said that is anti Jewish. You just throw the allegation out as you have that I was a homophobe. It is what you do-name call-throw out the allegations as insults and name calling with no references.

I can only guess you are not trying to misappropriate the term anti-semite to suggest it can be used to refer to people who hate Muslims or Arabs, and now accuse me of hating either or both. Yet another unsubstantiated accusation no different then the homophobe allegation. Your continued unsubstantiated name calling speaks for itself. It is a transparent exercise to bait me and attack me personally to try avoid the issues being debated. For that I call you out and say its cowardly.

"Freeodm of speech is not premised on whether or not you disagree with the content."

Its that kind of statement that displays your rigid thought processes and inability to flex and engage in divergent cognitive processes. Of course freedom of speech might be determined in terms of when its appropriate by its content.

What an absurd thing for you to say. People do not believe freedom of speech is unlimited precisely because of the content in certain cases. Take for example pornography. Many people like me in principle have no problem with pornography. Our attitude is if you want to rent smut films and buy magazines go for it. However where we draw the line is when that pornography depicts the killing or violence against women or children or sexual abuse of children. It is the contents we look at to determine how far the freedom of speech right should go.

You are so busy lecturing me on the narrow rigid parameters you think I must argue and consider freedom of speech you completely miss the point.

Contents of films often determines how much freedom to give them. Yes if someone cries fire in a crowded theatre, we would want restriction on this comment. The contentsbut more importantly the context in which the contents are referenced to then give them meaning are precisely the measuring test.

"Should I be apologizing for not hating anyone?"

No please continue to wallow in your moral righteousness and sainthood. I never asked you to apologize. In fact the more you tell the world what a perfect person you are the more I establish the point of what a jack ass you can be. Lol. I also again repeat, the difference between us is, when I come on this board, I fully admit I hate people. Lol.

"No. You will state that someone is antisemitic based on precisely nothing, nothing at all. That's far worse, Rue."

There is no someone Bloody. There is you. I have repeated the specific context and reason why I have connotated your supporting the QUIAA as anti-semitic. I have referred to no one else. Your attempt to try place yourself yet again in a large category to gain credibility is a transparent exercise. There is no someone. There is you and me. I never stated you were an anti-semite based on nothing. That again is you engaging yet again in the exercise of deliberately mistating what I said and as you can see I have the energy to continually challenge each and every mistatement of yours and refer back to what I actually stated which in this case-is you supporting the QUIAA which I argue is a blatant anti-semitic hate mongering organization.

Oh but I love this one-homophobe was not good enough, now we throw out the latest unsubstantiated allegation:

"And hypocritical, since you're the one who hates Jews."

Lol. Which ones? Lol. I have knews for you. I disagree with fellow Jews over our culture and religion. Of course I do. Are you suggesting that means I am anti-semitic? Lol. You just love to throw out the labels. I disagree with someone who is anti semitic and gay, I am a homophobe. I disagree with someone who is Jewish, I am automatically an anti-semite.

This Bloody is precisely why I mock you. You throw out the labels of political proprierty non stop at the slightest indication you have no idea how to debate the issues. You try personalize and demonize me the moment you feel you can't debate the issues.

Go ahead. Now I hate Jews. Lol. I have news for you-I can't stand certain fundamentalist Jews on the West Bank, extreme right wing Jews who come on this forum and demonize Muslims and Palestinians in the name of Zionism and I can't stand Jews who do what the QUIAA does either in support of them or in reverse against them but use the same tactics such as the JDL. You have a problem with that? You think you can just smeer me with yet another name? Lol.

Go ahead. Again the difference between us is I criticize my fellow Jews no differently then I would goyim, Muslims, anyone else. I use the same consistent standards and values. Jews don't get a free pass from me to be bigots anymore then the QUIAA does pulling the gay card. I will say it one last time-I could care less what you are-say something I disagree with I will challenge it. Boo.

"On the contrary, you're profoundly beset by political correctness. That's why you keep screeching moralistic pieties."

No no Bloody. You are the one who comes on this forum to accuse me of anti-semitism, hatred of Jews, and hatred of gays and then in the next breath tell us all you have no hatred in your heart.

Lol. You are funny.

"Wow. I'm surprised that the fact I don't hate anyone has gotten you so riled up!"

Riled up? Lol. No but its good for a laugh Saint Bloody of the Lefist Trend.

:Right....my victimizing of you. Good on you to stand up against such terrible oppression!"

Actually when you call me a homophobe and an anti-semite I will challenge it but this notion you have that you victimize me or I think you victimize you with due respect Bloody is simply you projecting a narcissistic fantasy on me. No Bloody your words have never victimized me as much as you might like to think they matter to me.

"Making it up and then fighting the strawman is counterproductive."

Yes yet another lecture of how I should debate coming from the man who has not been able to go a paragraph without accusing me of being an anti-semite, a homophobe, etc. Right. Do as I say not as I do right Bloody?

"That's why I think you're an anti-semite, trying to undermine a very important cause...fighting real antisemitism."

What another dumb thing to say. Now you lecture me that I am an anti-semite because I challenge the QUIAA and you feel since you believe the QUIAA is not anti-semitic I am for calling them that.

Not only is your allegation illogical but it once again shows how you spit out a negative judgement about me in a personal context because I disagree with your opinion. I love it.

You support a group that calls for violence of Jews worldwide until Israeli is liberated and refers to any Jew who supports unversal sufferage as a criminal and that does NOT make you an anti-semite-but if I challenge this-I am. Brilliant. Lol. Once again Bwana shows he believes the Jew does not know his place and Bwana must lecture the Jew on what is and is not acceptable and when the Jew may or may not defend himself from hatred. Lol. You tell 'em Bwana.

"You nothing whatsoever of my life. I can tell you it has been quite different from whatever fantasy you've concocted."

Lol I don't want to know. I have though enjoyed tremendously your non stop lectures on what anti-semitism is and is not.

"This coming from a man who invents it where it doesn't exist."

Ooopsy another pronouncement from Saint Bloody on what he deems acceptable as the divine word we must all follow. You just can't shed the need to preach to this Jew can you Bloody. That falling back into the morally righteous smu superior role of lecturing the immoral Jew just can't get out of your system now can it.

Saint Bloody, the recycled missionary. Only now we replace the word Christ killer with anti-semite right Bloody? What do I know right Bloody? Me a Jew claim to know what an attack on me is? Who me? No not me. I need a goy to lecture me on what an anti-semitic position is. Right.

You stated:

"We already agree on this point, so there's no need to keep insisting upon it."

No quite the opposite. You mistate it as agreement because you don't know how to debate it so avoid it by mistating it as an agreement. That is yet again evidence of your passive aggressive tactis. You start what you can't finish. You spit out the accusations and allegations and then never follow through witha basis for them.

"Finally you say something nice. thnak you. Rue."

You again mistate my words. I can't stand you and I am not nice.

"Is that why you think I'm an anti-semite? Sins of the Father? Ultimately, that's just Biblical crap, itself bigoted and prejudicail, and i don't buy it."

I think you are an anti-semite as I have stated for advocating on behalf of the platform of the QUIAA.

I also subscribe to Jungian analysis to explain your need to be a missionary with me and lecture me continuously on knowing my place. Yes I think it is deeply embedded in your subconscious and flows from the collective values you have inherited about Jews and are clearly oblivious to. It wouldn't even dawn on you what a snot nosed elitist you are and how absurd it is for you to try tell me what anti-semitism is and when I should challenge it.

Edited July 6, 2011 by Rue

[Oleg Bach]

In response to your latest comments:

"look, if you don't even understand coomon English expressions like "tit-for-tat," and misread them as something else...well, that's not my fault. It's isn't the Oppressor Goys and the Evil Gays who make you uneducated."

I have no idea what the above means. Also I know you have tits.

"They aren't spouting hatred. You are."

The QUIAA spouts and spews anti-semitic diatribes against Jews and Israel and I challenge them despite your trying to sanitize what they say or suggest because I challenge them I am hateful. In fact all you do is show you try demonize me for defending Jews and the public from the hatred of the QUIAA. Go ahead.

"Certainly I have no clue how to defend anti-semitism, nor would I wish to do so, and nor do I understand why anyone would."

No but you come on this forum and re-state the QUIAA as not being anti-semite and me being hateful because I challenge their anti-semitism. Right.

"That sounds like you just made a pronouncement and so think it must be so."

Unlike you Bloody when I state a subjective opinion I make it clear it is, I don't present it as a fact as you do. I have stated numerous times that I believe the QUIAA platform and agenda is blatant anti-semtitic hate mongering and if you want to defend it and argue taxpayers should fund it, that makes you a champion of anti-semitism let alone having tax payers have to fund such displays.

You asked:

"Then how do you explain that you oppose this group, and yet remain an anti-semite yourself?"

In this response, you name call me quite a few times that I am an anti-semite. You provide no words to show what I said that is anti Jewish. You just throw the allegation out as you have that I was a homophobe. It is what you do-name call-throw out the allegations as insults and name calling with no references.

I can only guess you are not trying to misappropriate the term anti-semite to suggest it can be used to refer to people who hate Muslims or Arabs, and now accuse me of hating either or both. Yet another unsubstantiated accusation no different then the homophobe allegation. Your continued unsubstantiated name calling speaks for itself. It is a transparent exercise to bait me and attack me personally to try avoid the issues being debated. For that I call you out and say its cowardly.

"Freeodm of speech is not premised on whether or not you disagree with the content."

Its that kind of statement that displays your rigid thought processes and inability to flex and engage in divergent cognitive processes. Of course freedom of speech might be determined in terms of when its appropriate by its content.

What an absurd thing for you to say. People do not believe freedom of speech is unlimited precisely because of the content in certain cases. Take for example pornography. Many people like me in principle have no problem with pornography. Our attitude is if you want to rent smut films and buy magazines go for it. However where we draw the line is when that pornography depicts the killing or violence against women or children or sexual abuse of children. It is the contents we look at to determine how far the freedom of speech right should go.

You are so busy lecturing me on the narrow rigid parameters you think I must argue and consider freedom of speech you completely miss the point.

Contents of films often determines how much freedom to give them. Yes if someone cries fire in a crowded theatre, we would want restriction on this comment. The contentsbut more importantly the context in which the contents are referenced to then give them meaning are precisely the measuring test.

"Should I be apologizing for not hating anyone?"

No please continue to wallow in your moral righteousness and sainthood. I never asked you to apologize. In fact the more you tell the world what a perfect person you are the more I establish the point of what a jack ass you can be. Lol. I also again repeat, the difference between us is, when I come on this board, I fully admit I hate people. Lol.

"No. You will state that someone is antisemitic based on precisely nothing, nothing at all. That's far worse, Rue."

There is no someone Bloody. There is you. I have repeated the specific context and reason why I have connotated your supporting the QUIAA as anti-semitic. I have referred to no one else. Your attempt to try place yourself yet again in a large category to gain credibility is a transparent exercise. There is no someone. There is you and me. I never stated you were an anti-semite based on nothing. That again is you engaging yet again in the exercise of deliberately mistating what I said and as you can see I have the energy to continually challenge each and every mistatement of yours and refer back to what I actually stated which in this case-is you supporting the QUIAA which I argue is a blatant anti-semitic hate mongering organization.

Oh but I love this one-homophobe was not good enough, now we throw out the latest unsubstantiated allegation:

"And hypocritical, since you're the one who hates Jews."

Lol. Which ones? Lol. I have knews for you. I disagree with fellow Jews over our culture and religion. Of course I do. Are you suggesting that means I am anti-semitic? Lol. You just love to throw out the labels. I disagree with someone who is anti semitic and gay, I am a homophobe. I disagree with someone who is Jewish, I am automatically an anti-semite.

This Bloody is precisely why I mock you. You throw out the labels of political proprierty non stop at the slightest indication you have no idea how to debate the issues. You try personalize and demonize me the moment you feel you can't debate the issues.

Go ahead. Now I hate Jews. Lol. I have news for you-I can't stand certain fundamentalist Jews on the West Bank, extreme right wing Jews who come on this forum and demonize Muslims and Palestinians in the name of Zionism and I can't stand Jews who do what the QUIAA does either in support of them or in reverse against them but use the same tactics such as the JDL. You have a problem with that? You think you can just smeer me with yet another name? Lol.

Go ahead. Again the difference between us is I criticize my fellow Jews no differently then I would goyim, Muslims, anyone else. I use the same consistent standards and values. Jews don't get a free pass from me to be bigots anymore then the QUIAA does pulling the gay card. I will say it one last time-I could care less what you are-say something I disagree with I will challenge it. Boo.

"On the contrary, you're profoundly beset by political correctness. That's why you keep screeching moralistic pieties."

No no Bloody. You are the one who comes on this forum to accuse me of anti-semitism, hatred of Jews, and hatred of gays and then in the next breath tell us all you have no hatred in your heart.

Lol. You are funny.

"Wow. I'm surprised that the fact I don't hate anyone has gotten you so riled up!"

Riled up? Lol. No but its good for a laugh Saint Bloody of the Lefist Trend.

:Right....my victimizing of you. Good on you to stand up against such terrible oppression!"

Actually when you call me a homophobe and an anti-semite I will challenge it but this notion you have that you victimize me or I think you victimize you with due respect Bloody is simply you projecting a narcissistic fantasy on me. No Bloody your words have never victimized me as much as you might like to think they matter to me.

"Making it up and then fighting the strawman is counterproductive."

Yes yet another lecture of how I should debate coming from the man who has not been able to go a paragraph without accusing me of being an anti-semite, a homophobe, etc. Right. Do as I say not as I do right Bloody?

"That's why I think you're an anti-semite, trying to undermine a very important cause...fighting real antisemitism."

What another dumb thing to say. Now you lecture me that I am an anti-semite because I challenge the QUIAA and you feel since you believe the QUIAA is not anti-semitic I am for calling them that.

Not only is your allegation illogical but it once again shows how you spit out a negative judgement about me in a personal context because I disagree with your opinion. I love it.

You support a group that calls for violence of Jews worldwide until Israeli is liberated and refers to any Jew who supports unversal sufferage as a criminal and that does NOT make you an anti-semite-but if I challenge this-I am. Brilliant. Lol. Once again Bwana shows he believes the Jew does not know his place and Bwana must lecture the Jew on what is and is not acceptable and when the Jew may or may not defend himself from hatred. Lol. You tell 'em Bwana.

"You nothing whatsoever of my life. I can tell you it has been quite different from whatever fantasy you've concocted."

Lol I don't want to know. I have though enjoyed tremendously your non stop lectures on what anti-semitism is and is not.

"This coming from a man who invents it where it doesn't exist."

Ooopsy another pronouncement from Saint Bloody on what he deems acceptable as the divine word we must all follow. You just can't shed the need to preach to this Jew can you Bloody. That falling back into the morally righteous smu superior role of lecturing the immoral Jew just can't get out of your system now can it.

Saint Bloody, the recycled missionary. Only now we replace the word Christ killer with anti-semite right Bloody? What do I know right Bloody? Me a Jew claim to know what an attack on me is? Who me? No not me. I need a goy to lecture me on what an anti-semitic position is. Right.

You stated:

"We already agree on this point, so there's no need to keep insisting upon it."

No quite the opposite. You mistate it as agreement because you don't know how to debate it so avoid it by mistating it as an agreement. That is yet again evidence of your passive aggressive tactis. You start what you can't finish. You spit out the accusations and allegations and then never follow through witha basis for them.

"Finally you say something nice. thnak you. Rue."

You again mistate my words. I can't stand you and I am not nice.

"Is that why you think I'm an anti-semite? Sins of the Father? Ultimately, that's just Biblical crap, itself bigoted and prejudicail, and i don't buy it."

I think you are an anti-semite as I have stated for advocating on behalf of the platform of the QUIAA.

I also subscribe to Jungian analysis to explain your need to be a missionary with me and lecture me continuously on knowing my place. Yes I think it is deeply embedded in your subconscious and flows from the collective values you have inherited about Jews and are clearly oblivious to. It wouldn't even dawn on you what a snot nosed elitist you are and how absurd it is for you to try tell me what anti-semitism is and when I should challenge it.

To long a post - no one is going to read it - other than scan the last paraghaph.

[Rue]

The attempt to suggest the QUIAA is not anti-semitic and bait me into providing quotes as to what it has stated are futile Bloody. You don't dictate what I will state and when as much as you would like to. You are not my Bwana. For someone who continuously accuses me of being an anti-semite and homophobe without reference to back up such allegations from my words, now demand I prove the QUIAA is anti-semitic is laughable.

Here is the way QUIAA calls for the end of Israel:

"We support any solution in which all citizens — Jewish, Arab, Christian, Muslim, or otherwise — have full legal and political equality in a secular democracy, and in which Palestinians have the right to return to their homes. We do not support any state in which different people have different rights based on their race or religion. That is why we are called “Queers against Israeli Apartheid”.

QIAA would have you believe they want a non Jewish state because if Jews are recognized by the state as a specific people with a right to a national identity protected by the state that makes it racist and discriminatory and apartheid.

This is a recycled coded phrase for dismantling Israel and turning Jews back into a minority. It is also dispicable because the persons who drafted this idiocy are well are there have been no secular democracies in the Middle East except one-Israel.

Every other nation is a sharia law nation. To suggest non Jews in Israel or non gays in Israel are so victimized in an Israeli state that they can not live without dismantling the state is an absolute crock of shit.

The rights of gays under the laws of Israelis and the rights of Muslims and Christians in Israel speak for themselves. This group can ignore them and how Muslims, Christians and gays let alone Jews live in Israel day to day, in an effort to demonize the entire nation as evil but it does not change the fact that Muslims and Christians and gays in Israel live with the highest standard of living in all of the Middle East and gays have more rights and freedoms and legal protection in Israel then in any sharia or Muslim or Arab league nation.

This is precisely why some have written articles such as the following to challenge the above:

"http://www.gaycitynews.com/articles/2011/06/25/gay_city_news/perspectives/analysis/doc4e0680a4e82c1612512516.txt"

Here is another example of how the QIAA mistates the reality of the day to day life:

"Although the current conflict is often portrayed as a religious battle between Jews and Muslims for control of their holy lands, this does not reflect the reality of the situation. Many Palestinians are Christian, yet they are still victims of Israeli apartheid."

To start with each day in the Arab league nations, precisely because of Muslim religious sharia law, Christians, Jews, gays, Bahaiis, Berbers, Kurds, Buddists, and atheists to name but a few

are tortured, harassed, discriminated against and live in fear.

In Israel the difference is gays, Muslims and Christians have all the rights Jews in the country do except one-fast tracking for consideration as a citizen if they apply for citizenship.

So the above is an absolute rock. Christians, Muslims and gays own land, businesses, vote, have their legal rights protected in court, have hundreds of human rights groups an and active free press defending them. Israel is not perfect. Its fundamentalist orthodox Jews like their Muslim counterpart and Christian counterpart are anti gay but this is NOT state sanctioned unlike in the Muslim countries where it is.

The above passage is an absolute falsehood.

Here's another example of how the QIAA misrepresents:

It was only with Al Nakba, the expulsion of over 700,000 Palestinians from Palestine and the creation of apartheid Israel, that the conflict between the Jewish state of Israel and Arabs took its present shape.

"The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is largely a product of European anti-Semitism and European settler colonialism."

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the result of the British and French conspiring to violate the League of Nations mandate calling for a Jewish state by creating Arab puppet kingdoms and then flooding Palestine with non Palestinian Arabs to try prevent a Jewish state from forming.

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the result of an alliance between the Mufti of Jerusalem, Arab League states and Nazi Germany to wipe out Jews world wide to prevent then from escaping to Israel/Palestine.

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the result of the Arab League of Nations refusing to allow a tiny Jewish state and instead initiating a war to rid the Middle East of all Jews, then after losing that war forcing Palestinians into refugee camps and telling the world they would keep them imprisoned there as pawns until Israel as a Jewish state disappears and Jews go back to Europe.

The Israeli Palestinian conflict is the result of the Arab League of nations expelling 900,000 Jews from their nations during a rampant ethnic cleansing campaign where they illegalluy stole these peoples' property and forced 700,000 of then to flee to Israel having no place else to live.

The Israeli Palestinian conflict has many causes and the QIAA of course wants you simply to ignore them all and blame Jews for starting Israel and accuse Jews who were the victims of Arab ethnic cleansing and European colonialists as being colonizers not people escaping colonialists only to go head to head with Arab puppet leaders for these same colonialist regimes.

Why let the accuracy of history get in the way.

[bloodyminded]

The QUIAA spouts and spews anti-semitic diatribes against Jews and Israel

Yes, like their "call to kill Jews."

Still waiting for to you cite it.

I mean,you weren't lying, were you?

Unlike you Bloody when I state a subjective opinion I make it clear it is, I don't present it as a fact as you do.

This in itself sounds like you are stating something as fact.

Not much of a thinker, are you?

In this response, you name call me quite a few times that I am an anti-semite. You provide no words to show what I said that is anti Jewish.

Ah. See, I thought that was the acceptable method, sicne that's exactly what you have been doing all along in my case. Not a single anti-Jewish word ever summoned and quoted.

I guess you hold yourself to lower, easier standards than you demand of others.

You just throw the allegation out as you have that I was a homophobe.

After all your objections, you admitted to being a homophobe. Not my fault.

It is a transparent exercise to bait me and attack me personally to try avoid the issues being debated. For that I call you out and say its cowardly.

Now you're reduced to recycling my arguments against you. Thinking for yourself is difficult, is it?

That again is you engaging yet again in the exercise of deliberately mistating what I said and as you can see I have the energy to continually challenge each and every mistatement of yours and refer back to what I actually stated which in this case-is you supporting the QUIAA which I argue is a blatant anti-semitic hate mongering organization.

With their "call to kill Jews." Still waiting on that citation...or maybe your admission that you're full of horseshit. Whichever you can come up with.

I disagree with someone who is anti semitic and gay, I am a homophobe.

You declare yourself a homophobe, Rue. You do. In fact, plainly you owe me an apology for your continual deceptions...but I forgive you, and no apology is necessary.

I disagree with someone who is Jewish, I am automatically an anti-semite.

No, you are an anti-semite because, according to your own ingenious formulation, the charge itself constitutes good evidence.

If you don't like it, don't engage in the practice. Easy!

Lol. You are funny.

One of my many good qualities. Up there with the lack of hatred in my heart.

You support a group that calls for violence of Jews worldwide

So, now you owe us another citation...unless it's the same one you've, no doubt with good faith, so far forgotten to post for us.

Once again Bwana shows he believes the Jew does not know his place and Bwana must lecture the Jew on what is and is not acceptable and when the Jew may or may not defend himself from hatred. Lol. You tell 'em Bwana.

You still on your bigoted, "evil goy" kick, are you? How nice.

Got to put those goys in their place!

I also subscribe to Jungian analysis to explain your need to be a missionary with me and lecture me continuously on knowing my place. Yes I think it is deeply embedded in your subconscious and flows from the collective values you have inherited about Jews and are clearly oblivious to. It wouldn't even dawn on you what a snot nosed elitist you are and how absurd it is for you to try tell me what anti-semitism is and when I should challenge it.

You might even think this is an intelligent-sounding remark, I don't know. Cite Jungian analysis, offer some pop psychology about a person you know nothing about...right before calling out "elitist."

As for "elitist"...do you even know what the word means? I'll give you a hint, since you get all your information from drooling reactionaries (with the exception of the out-of-context ideas you cribbed from me, of course): "elitist" is not a synonym for "liberal."

I know, you really thought that's what it means. But now you've been corrected. You're welcome!

Edited July 6, 2011 by bloodyminded

[Oleg Bach]

In about 1890 the Zionists had a meeting in Austria. There was a debate on whether Jewish security and safety should come from economic and military means - Or - and here is the clash within the tribe _ They should trust and wait on God for salvation and the comming of a messiah. It seems that the God believing Jews might have been in the way of the more materially minded ones. Makes you wonder if this was the seed of genoide...after all - No person who has a firm belief in the authority of the all mighty God - is going to submit to the authority of worldly materialist - God believers must have been a thorn in the side of Zionists.

[Rue]

Oh but wait let's enjoy some not so couched references to the destruction of Israel and feign igorance as to what they really mean:

"For Jews, as for everyone engaged in that struggle, the task is to work with our Palestinian, Arab, and other friends and comrades to move from our shared opposition to Zionism into strategies of resistance that can, in the end, free Palestine."

source: http://monthlyreview.org/2009/06/01/jews-confront-zionism

Of course the above is merely posted on the QIAA web site. I mean heaven forbid we should say the QIAA wants to dismantle Israel and is calling on people to "share strategies of resistance".

Right. "share strategies of resistance". This of course refers to marching in thongs at parades and nothing to do with terrorism.

[bloodyminded]

Where's the "call to kill Jews"?

Still waiting.

Or for the admission of lying. Either one's good.

[Rue]

Oh but hey when I read the QIAA I see no anti-semitism. I am of course a demon making things up.

So for example when the QIAA links me to this web site: http://www.quitpalestine.org/resources/publications/quit_about.pdf

which calls for the liberation of Palestine and support of all liberation movements, well of course we are referring to the Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts organizations.

But you know my favourite is still the article which claims Israel created Hamas and works hand in hand with Muslim fundamentalists to harm gays. It throws out the suggestion Israel started Hamas and shares homophobic values with it.

http://www.zcommunications.org/queer-as-a-tool-of-colonial-oppression-the-case-of-israel-palestine-by-blair-kuntz

Talk about dishonesty. This coming from the same QIAA which has defended Hamas and Muslim fundamentalist terrorist groups fighting to "liberate" Israel.

But hey, I see no anti-semitism. This is all just anti Zionist opinion. If a Jew is not a Zionist, no problem. Never mind the liberation groups one is allying with do not distinguish between Jews and Zionists and want them all dead in their consitutions-nah just a minor detail.

[Rue]

Oh look a politically inappropriate opinion piece that I want Bloody to read and perhaps consider.

http://backseatblogger.com/2011/06/10/gay-pride-apartheid-israel/

[bloodyminded]

Just admit you were lying, and move on.

Everybody already knows it anyway.

[Oleg Bach]

The more you talk about what you are talking about the more you increase the chances of having a negative occurance - The more people that fixate on this old crap the worse it will get...I just wish the both of you would give it up...other than that - see you later - a lot later.

[Black Dog]

Where's the "call to kill Jews"?

Still waiting.

Or for the admission of lying. Either one's good.

You don't get it.

By Rue's formulation, anything critical of Israel or supportive of Palestine is ipso facto calling for the destruction of Israel as a state and the eradication of Jews.

It doesn't make a lick of sense to anyone with a shred of intellectual honesty or something other than bog water for brains, but for Rue it's a perfectly reasonable formulation, which should tell you all you need to know.

[bloodyminded]

You don't get it.

By Rue's formulation, anything critical of Israel or supportive of Palestine is ipso facto calling for the destruction of Israel as a state and the eradication of Jews.

It doesn't make a lick of sense to anyone with a shred of intellectual honesty or something other than bog water for brains, but for Rue it's a perfectly reasonable formulation, which should tell you all you need to know.

It does. I appreciate the timely clarification, BD.

Edited July 6, 2011 by bloodyminded

[Rue]

http://alexgtsakumis.com/2010/08/03/the-prideless-parade-drugs-extremism-and-hate-all-in-the-falsehood-of-diversity/

The above shows there are people out there who are not only politically inappropriate and gay at the same time, but Oleg probably understands.

[Shwa]

Shwa referring to me as a woman to get a tee hee only shows what we both know, you are insecure about your own sexuality. Referring to be as a woman may to you be an insult that makes you a giggle but in my world I don't have a problem with woman as equals.

Shwa keep up the giggles. You simply show what you are all about and Shwa there are plenty of boys like you giggling at the sight of women's tits. Grow up.

I thought you were like Rue McClanahan, from Golden Girls fame.

It must be the handle "Rue."