GostHacked Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 "The unanimous vote also approved the immediate referral of Libya to the International Criminal court over alleged abuses during the current violence, and a complete arms embargo on Libya." Oh Yay! We should all start feeling better now, that something effective is being done! It hardly matters, since over the past ten years the British have been selling them every sort of weaponry the Libyans ask for! And made some nice money on the way... all in exchange for a mere Lockerbie bomber... but of course our government wouldn't have known about these things before they happened. UK 'set for record Libya arms sales' Sarkozi gets cosy We've seen this movie before, have we not? Iraq? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 I see the Chinese government is clamping down on protesters in their streets this morning. Missing and Needed U.N. Resolution...how about an international code of governance that starts with, thou shalt listen to your people? In other words do unto them as you'd have them do unto you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 I see the Chinese government is clamping down on protesters in their streets this morning. Missing and Needed U.N. Resolution...how about an international code of governance that starts with, thou shalt listen to your people? In other words do unto them as you'd have them do unto you. Now THAT is something to keep an eye on. Most of this stuff currently in the Middle East and Africa will be peanuts compared to any kind of protests in China. Everyone can see something is really brewing around the world. Get ready folks, REAL tough times are still to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 Everyone can see something is really brewing around the world. I think what people are mostly seeing is an income gap that just keeps getting wider because of and for the benefit of those in and close to power. Perhaps it's time to revisit Westphalia but this time on the people's terms, not their rulers. Get ready folks, REAL tough times are still to come. Yep, and if you're not with us... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonsa Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 I think what people are mostly seeing is an income gap that just keeps getting wider because of and for the benefit of those in and close to power. Perhaps it's time to revisit Westphalia but this time on the people's terms, not their rulers. Yep, and if you're not with us... If its about income gap, then there's a whole lot of other places that should be going apeshit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 "The unanimous vote also approved the immediate referral of Libya to the International Criminal court over alleged abuses during the current violence, and a complete arms embargo on Libya." Oh Yay! We should all start feeling better now, that something effective is being done! I share your cynicism. I've long viewed the UN as a forum for gum-flappers and ditherers, and a waste of resources. In this instance the UN is making all the right noises. The benefit I see with this vote and other measures taken by the UN and the international community is the message it sends to Libyans that the world is supportive and eying developments from afar. For the time being, I think it best that Libyans lead their own liberation without direct foreign intervention. By all accounts, they're on their way to isolating the madman in his Tripoli stronghold while managing to set up some sort of government. Opposition protesters in eastern Libya have formed a national council, pledging to help free areas of the country still under Muammar Gaddafi's rule.Hafiz Ghoga, spokesman for the new National Libyan Council that was launched in the city of Benghazi on Sunday, said the council was not an interim government. "The main aim of the national council is to have a political face ... for the revolution," Ghoga told a news conference after the gathering to announce the council's formation. "We will help liberate other Libyan cities, in particular Tripoli through our national army, our armed forces, of which part have announced their support for the people," Ghoga said. http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/02/2011227175955221853.html One part of me wants someone, anyone to step up and blast Gaddafi and his henchmen into nothingness to prevent further loss of civilian lives. But common sense tells me in the long term if a Libyan manages to do the deed, the country would be better for it and they could then rightly claim they took ownership of their future. In other words they would not be beholden to any foreign entity. Of course the situation could escalate in a direction which would imperil too many innocent lives and deemed too intolerable to ignore. Then it's back to the drawing board with Plan B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 I share your cynicism. I've long viewed the UN as a forum for gum-flappers and ditherers, and a waste of resources. In this instance the UN is making all the right noises. The benefit I see with this vote and other measures taken by the UN and the international community is the message it sends to Libyans that the world is supportive and eying developments from afar. For the time being, I think it best that Libyans lead their own liberation without direct foreign intervention. By all accounts, they're on their way to isolating the madman in his Tripoli stronghold while managing to set up some sort of government. http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/02/2011227175955221853.html One part of me wants someone, anyone to step up and blast Gaddafi and his henchmen into nothingness to prevent further loss of civilian lives. But common sense tells me in the long term if a Libyan manages to do the deed, the country would be better for it and they could then rightly claim they took ownership of their future. In other words they would not be beholden to any foreign entity. Of course the situation could escalate in a direction which would imperil too many innocent lives and deemed too intolerable to ignore. Then it's back to the drawing board with Plan B. I think these are all really good points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted February 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 But common sense tells me in the long term if a Libyan manages to do the deed, the country would be better for it and they could then rightly claim they took ownership of their future. In other words they would not be beholden to any foreign entity. That kind of logic is so 1938. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted February 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 the illegal settlements have been illegal for decades. the libya situation is less than a month old. No, the situation dates back to, oh, 1969. but yeah, anyway, mr. radical leftist lawyer: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12589658 The UN Security Council has agreed a package of sanctions against the Libyan leader, Muammar Gaddafi and members of his family and close associates, including international travel bans and the freezing of assets. The unanimous vote also approved the immediate referral of Libya to the International Criminal court over alleged abuses during the current violence, and a complete arms embargo on Libya. And this is the first time Libya's come in for condemnation after how much debate and blather about Israel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 That kind of logic is so 1938. Could you elaborate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Bandelot Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 Could you elaborate? Looks like it's time for another "reductio ad nazium". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted February 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) One part of me wants someone, anyone to step up and blast Gaddafi and his henchmen into nothingness to prevent further loss of civilian lives. But common sense tells me in the long term if a Libyan manages to do the deed, the country would be better for it and they could then rightly claim they took ownership of their future. In other words they would not be beholden to any foreign entity.Of course the situation could escalate in a direction which would imperil too many innocent lives and deemed too intolerable to ignore. Then it's back to the drawing board with Plan B. That kind of logic is so 1938. Could you elaborate? You actually got it right in the last sentence, but I didn't notice it. The problem is that Libya and Iran are unlikely to sort out their affairs without horrific bloodshed. That is where the 1938 analogy comes in. The civilized world found lots of reasons to dither while Hitler was gearing up for his maniacal mass slaughter. The world has been dithering about these countries for at least 80 years, while spending the last 60 of them holding Israel to an impossible to meet standard of perfection. That is what I meant by "so 1938". Looks like it's time for another "reductio ad nazium". Good pun. Missed it the first time. Edited February 28, 2011 by jbg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 libya's situation effects libyans. what israel is doing is effecting another group of people outside of israel's borders. you can try to draw a parallel and keep pretending that israel is all innocent and doesn't deserve the condemnation it (sorta) receives, but any logical person who sees israel's actions, knows better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 (edited) ...affects. Edited March 1, 2011 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted March 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 libya's situation effects libyans. what israel is doing is effecting another group of people outside of israel's borders. you can try to draw a parallel and keep pretending that israel is all innocent and doesn't deserve the condemnation it (sorta) receives, but any logical person who sees israel's actions, knows better. ...affects. Is that the start of a much needed Canadian language and spelling instructional course? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Is that the start of a much needed Canadian language and spelling instructional course? lol...I'm a rotten spellier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted March 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 lol...I'm a rotten spellier. At least your sentences begin with capital letters.Something that Canadian and English have in common. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Is that the start of a much needed Canadian language and spelling instructional course? you are a weak person. you make it easy for me to own you on this forum. remind me when you're able to respond directly to any of my posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 The world has been dithering about these countries for at least 80 years No, what the world has really been dithering about is how it's stood by without saying anything about that fact that it's shiniest beacons have been diddling these countries for at least as long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 Looks like it's time for another "reductio ad nazium". Nice! I'm afraid I might have to borrow that one from you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 No, what the world has really been dithering about is how it's stood by without saying anything about that fact that it's shiniest beacons have been diddling these countries for at least as long. Certainly. It's not White Hats vs. Black Hats, it's Black Hats as far the eye can see. No amount of moral relativism about everybody else's Evil can change that. The fault for the failures of the UN rests primarily at the feet of its most powerful and influential members. That's basic logic which uncontroversially applies to every organization, without exception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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