fellowtraveller Posted February 26, 2011 Report Posted February 26, 2011 bigots and idiots are the biggest hypocrites...by not naming names they're too stupid to realize I'm referring to them, bigots rationalize their bigotry and don't see themselves as bigots and idiots are too stupid to realize they're idiots... pot, meet kettle. I defer to your personal knowledge of bigotry, with every post your loathing for anybody not like yourself rings loud.knowing French and English puts over half of the worlds countries at your disposal as well as 100% of your own countryYou really have not been anywhere, have you? The international language of business and commerce is without question English. Speaking French won't get you anywhere except in France, Quebec and parts of Africa. France does not like anybody but French people to profict from their society, a fact my self employed brother has learned from a couple decades living there. They haven't noticed yet, but their international clout is withering while their goofy economy stagnates. People marvel at them, but in reality what most French young people want is go somewhere they can get a job. Quebec does not want Anglo business in any way within their borders: they want and get and officially back homegrown(Quebecois) business within their borders, and speak English when they export their business. West Africa is 40 years from being an emerging market. When they eventually do enter the marketplace, they will speak English. Mandarin. Hindi. Not French. Next. Quote The government should do something.
kimmy Posted February 26, 2011 Report Posted February 26, 2011 With the exception of Newfoundland, Manitoba and the territories French Canadians make up more than 11% of the population, including Alberta. That figure specifies "French ancestry", not French speakers. Sure, lots of people out west have French ancestry. I know a Lemieux, a Morin, and a number of Carons, and none of them speak any French at all. Like the Schmidts, Svenssons, and Demetriuks, they decided that carrying on their grandparents' language wasn't a terribly important consideration. (the Changs and Singhs will be there within a generation or two as well.) I'm not sure what it is that some westerners have against bilingualism. I'm not sure exactly why it's seen as damaging. Not damaging. I think the resentment of bilingualism as an official policy in the west is that it's seen as utterly artificial. Bilingualism is often pushed with the sort of arguments offered in this thread. "...but you could get a government job!" "...but you could travel!" "...but you could move to Quebec!" Who cares? And there's the idea that there's some sort of duty as a Canadian, or something that is owed to Quebecers, to learn French. My ancestors have been in this country for several generations now, and none of them have ever spoken a word of French. It's a little late to try and convince us that it's a duty of Canadians. I think official bilingualism as part and parcel of the sort of "Two Nations" rhetoric that makes most western Canadians physically nauseous. It's artificial. It bears no relevance to life in western Canada. "The French Fact In Canada" is "The French Myth" out here. Special status for Quebec, special powers for Quebec, a sponsorship program to win the affection of Quebecers, referendums, ... I think many westerners are past caring. They just roll their eyes and say "whatever" at this point. I think most westerners reject this stuff as being just plain irrelevant to their existence. That's completely untrue. What has happened to the west in the last two and a half decades by the evil eastern bastards. Poor us. What a joke. Interesting choice of a cut-off date. However, I think the CF-18 maintenance contract makes it in under the cut. I suspect a lot of Manitobans of sufficient age haven't forgotten that a superior Winnipeg bid was passed up for the opportunity to buy votes in Quebec. Which, I think, is the sort of thing that Battletoad was talking about. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
Molly Posted February 26, 2011 Report Posted February 26, 2011 (edited) Deleted. I didn't need to be sayin' stuff like that. Edited February 26, 2011 by Molly Quote "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" — L. Frank Baum "For Conservatives, ministerial responsibility seems to be a temporary and constantly shifting phenomenon," -- Goodale
Jack Weber Posted February 26, 2011 Report Posted February 26, 2011 My wife's 1st language is French...I toook French Immersion in 7,8,and,9... Good thing I took it... Know what I mean?? Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
wyly Posted February 26, 2011 Report Posted February 26, 2011 (edited) Westerners are largely excluded from that sort of work anyway, if not by language fluency then simply by geographic location. Most federal government jobs in this part of the world don't require French. Few Westerners, even those who've attended "French immersion" schools, speak with fluency to satisfy the government language cops anyway.-k geez I know one where just her grade 12 french (and a bit more in Uni) not only got her a job with a French corporate giant she's now the VP of western Canada opertions...Who'd plan their educational choices around the idea of landing a government job anyway? Who'd say "I want to be a bilingual bureaucrat some day!" ...it's like saying "I want to drive a Saturn some day!" It kind of makes me sad to think that somewhere out there, some child is thinking "I want to be a bureaucrat when I grow up!" well since 3.5 million people work for the various levels of government and knowing they need French to advance up the ladder it would seem obvious that many do...it kind of makes me sad that there such shallow bitter people out there who believe being less educated and less versatile is a good thing...what school system did you attend that taught you dumber is better?...where do you get off thinking because some people want to work in the civil service that it makes their work of less value than yours?...you go tell Army Guy his job has no value because he works for the government... Edited February 26, 2011 by wyly Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted February 26, 2011 Report Posted February 26, 2011 Unlike you, I was a straight A student in both algebra and French (4 years worth of French), and studied both for the love of learning, not just to qualify for something else. unlike me? you're assuming a lot, where did I state what marks I got?...I'm already bilingual and can pick up bits and pieces of two other languages...I use the algebra - gadz- every day. There were competent algebra teachers available to me, though, unlimited opportunity to practice and maintain the skills, and lots of good reasons to do so. French though, not so much.I never use algebra so why was I forced to learn something I knew I would never use? that's same stupid logic which idiots apply to french...you learn it because it opens doors of opportunity... there is growing trend in the US among college students to be bilingual even trilingual to ensure a job and limitless potential, multilingual students have the advantage...in the USA language study is up 6.6% , spanish counting for over 50%...my daughters master degree requires a 2nd language(any)...when it comes to job credentials not having a 2nd language is a serious oversight... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted February 26, 2011 Report Posted February 26, 2011 Deleted. I didn't need to be sayin' stuff like that. but you did Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Smallc Posted February 26, 2011 Report Posted February 26, 2011 where do you get off thinking because some people want to work in the civil service that it makes their work of less value than yours?...you go tell Army Guy his job has no value because he works for the government... She can't help it. It comes natural that as someone who supported reform, you have to be against anything different than what you know. Government work is of no value, and the French language is useless....both things are false, of course, but that doesn't matter. I wish I had been given the opportunity to learn more of the French language basics, but I went to one of the few schools in Manitoba that didn't have French courses. I'm poorer culturally because of it, and it's more difficult to learn now. Quote
wyly Posted February 26, 2011 Report Posted February 26, 2011 (edited) pot, meet kettle. I defer to your personal knowledge of bigotry, with every post your loathing for anybody not like yourself rings loud. oh ya, I feel so bad that I have zero tolerance for the intolerant You really have not been anywhere, have you? let's see, I've been across canada coast to coast, lived in the territories,usa, lived in europe and traveled there many times, dual citizenship, ya I've been around... The international language of business and commerce is without question English. Speaking French won't get you anywhere except in France, Quebec and parts of Africa. France does not like anybody but French people to profict from their society, a fact my self employed brother has learned from a couple decades living there. They haven't noticed yet, but their international clout is withering while their goofy economy stagnates. People marvel at them, but in reality what most French young people want is go somewhere they can get a job.your brother is obviously a loser, french is not overlooked in europe, those who rise to the top there are fluent in multi-languages as required, my cousin working in oil business in Norway speaks 5 languages including french, if you want to be chump who is satisfied to live their life on the bottom of the food chain stay with one language, to rise to the top in europe multilingualism is required in business and government...Quebec does not want Anglo business in any way within their borders: they want and get and officially back homegrown(Quebecois) business within their borders, and speak English when they export their business. West Africa is 40 years from being an emerging market. When they eventually do enter the marketplace, they will speak English. Mandarin. Hindi. Not French. Next. Quebecers have the same simpleminded racist based logic as you do...time to get into emerging markets is now, africa, central and south america the third warlord is ripe for those with the ability to start in on the ground floor now, in 10-15 years it'll be too late, in some places it already is...next. Edited February 26, 2011 by wyly Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
William Ashley Posted February 26, 2011 Author Report Posted February 26, 2011 (edited) Good grief, William, if you wanted to ask why the government isn't doing more to encourage people to learn French, why didn't you ask why the government isn't doing more to encourage people to learn French? The word "polymath" describes people like Copernicus, DaVinci, Galileo, Newton, Franklin... people whose breadth and depth of knowledge encompasses many spheres of human achievement. Why doesn't more done to "make" Canadian polymaths? Because such people can not be created by any act of government. Only retards can't learn more than the basics of one language. To address the real question, namely "why do not de Anglo learn de Francais?"... my response is: why bother? Westerners are largely excluded from that sort of work anyway, if not by language fluency then simply by geographic location. Most federal government jobs in this part of the world don't require French. Few Westerners, even those who've attended "French immersion" schools, speak with fluency to satisfy the government language cops anyway. Who'd plan their educational choices around the idea of landing a government job anyway? Who'd say "I want to be a bilingual bureaucrat some day!" ...it's like saying "I want to drive a Saturn some day!" It kind of makes me sad to think that somewhere out there, some child is thinking "I want to be a bureaucrat when I grow up!" "Serve the French" is what I need to do? Wait, what? I'm committing genocide by not learning French? This is just more of the kind of ridiculous hype that makes people think you're crazy, Willie. There's not a single drop of French blood in me. Why should I help them keep their culture alive? Should I also learn tagalog so that I can help my upstairs neighbors keep their culture alive? -k I find it ignorant people wouldn't try to learn both official languages. Not a happy middleground I know. Kimmy unfortunately I think you are wrong. Edited February 26, 2011 by William Ashley Quote I was here.
wyly Posted February 26, 2011 Report Posted February 26, 2011 She can't help it. It comes natural that as someone who supported reform, you have to be against anything different than what you know. Government work is of no value, and the French language is useless....both things are false, of course, but that doesn't matter. I wish I had been given the opportunity to learn more of the French language basics, but I went to one of the few schools in Manitoba that didn't have French courses. I'm poorer culturally because of it, and it's more difficult to learn now. ya I'm doubly ashamed I fell victim to the same racist based logic "you can't force me to speak french" what an idiot I was...and worse yet I had the opportunity and I wasted it...it bothers me that there is a part of my country that I can't function in...as you say I'm culturally poorer for it...on my last trip in europe I met a young french MD who saw it the same as I did only he had the same view of ignorant french people who felt no one could force them to learn english, it's pure arrogance...he realized to succeed you need to know at least two if not three languages and he made it a point to do so...rather than just learn english in school he moved to london to immerse himself in the language, he the instantly has a more impressive CV or resume than MDs that do not... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Molly Posted February 26, 2011 Report Posted February 26, 2011 unlike me? you're assuming a lot, where did I state what marks I got?...I'm already bilingual and can pick up bits and pieces of two other languages... I never use algebra so why was I forced to learn something I knew I would never use? that's same stupid logic which idiots apply to french...you learn it because it opens doors of opportunity... there is growing trend in the US among college students to be bilingual even trilingual to ensure a job and limitless potential, multilingual students have the advantage...in the USA language study is up 6.6% , spanish counting for over 50%...my daughters master degree requires a 2nd language(any)...when it comes to job credentials not having a 2nd language is a serious oversight... S'alright. After reading your follow-up, I was going to repost it anyway. Yes, I made assumptions. When you claimed regrets that you are not fluent in French, said (and say) that you can't think of any applications for algebra, and that you only studied literature, physics or chemistry because you needed them to get into a different school, I understood that to imply a relative lack of proficiency (and interest). If I was wrong... then that's probably a good thing. And man, I really don't care whether you use or understand algebra or not. Truly, I do not... though if you are that math hostile, it's probably a good idea for you to leave it to others.... but I do completely agree that the claim that learning French to the exclusion of other languages 'because it opens doors of opportunity' is the logic of an idiot. Quote "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" — L. Frank Baum "For Conservatives, ministerial responsibility seems to be a temporary and constantly shifting phenomenon," -- Goodale
wyly Posted February 26, 2011 Report Posted February 26, 2011 (edited) S'alright. After reading your follow-up, I was going to repost it anyway. Yes, I made assumptions. When you claimed regrets that you are not fluent in French, said (and say) that you can't think of any applications for algebra, and that you only studied literature, physics or chemistry because you needed them to get into a different school, I understood that to imply a relative lack of proficiency (and interest). If I was wrong... then that's probably a good thing. another assumption I never said my being bilingual included speaking french...I didn't say there weren't applications for algebra but not in the world I live but I learned it and I did well( A's ) ...had I chosen a career path that required it would have been of benefit, now it's only good to help Jr with his homework... And man, I really don't care whether you use or understand algebra or not. Truly, I do not... though if you are that math hostile, it's probably a good idea for you to leave it to others.... but I do completely agree that the claim that learning French to the exclusion of other languages 'because it opens doors of opportunity' is the logic of an idiot.ya I hated the maths that's not where I live, but that's where mrs wyly lives and she loves it, I could've opted out but I didn't it had value if I chose to use it...for every canadian not to be at least bilingual both official languages is just dumb(that includes myself), arrogant and spiteful(that was me, I've changed but it's too late now)...then add another language for cultural reasons or business reasons...my bro-in-law has a management position with an international firm in Calgary that required both our official languages then on his own he became proficient in Cantonese and now is working on mandarin because it's of value to his employer and for his own personal business plans...as well he speaks a 5th purely for his own family use...not to learn French when we have the opportunity is stupid, it's squandering an educational opportunity, it instantly opens doors of opportunity in our own country and abroad...every Canadian should have a basic understanding of both languages and after that if they want to learn polish, Spanish or mandarin for whatever reason go for it...more doors open with every language learned... another error people make judging the usefulness of French...many times in international diplomacy or business a group of people from different countries will seek a common language understood by all, and it isn't always English it could easily be French, Spanish or even Cantonese... Edited February 26, 2011 by wyly Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Battletoads Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 ya I'm doubly ashamed I fell victim to the same racist based logic "you can't force me to speak french" what an idiot I was...and worse yet I had the opportunity and I wasted it... When without a real argument claim your opponents are racist eh? Last I checked spekaing a languaged didn't dictate your race. it bothers me that there is a part of my country that I can't function in...as you say I'm culturally poorer for it... Even the dolt Haper has admitted Quebec is a seperate nation. on my last trip in europe I met a young french MD who saw it the same as I did only he had the same view of ignorant french people who felt no one could force them to learn english, it's pure arrogance...he realized to succeed you need to know at least two if not three languages and he made it a point to do so...rather than just learn english in school he moved to london to immerse himself in the language, he the instantly has a more impressive CV or resume than MDs that do not... Why did he choose English? The simple answer is because it was useful. French is not useful in western Canada, unlike Asian languages. Quote "You can lead a Conservative to knowledge, but you can't make him think."
kimmy Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 She can't help it. It comes natural that as someone who supported reform, you have to be against anything different than what you know. Government work is of no value, and the French language is useless....both things are false, of course, but that doesn't matter. I didn't say government work is useless. I'm glad that somebody is there to do is. Just like I'm glad that somebody is there to pick up the garbage each week. It's great that somebody does it. It's just not something I'd aspire to. And I didn't say French is useless. Any knowledge could be useful, in the right circumstances. If I knew a bunch of Persians, speaking Farsi would be tremendously useful. I don't know any Persians. I don't know any Francophones either. I wish I had been given the opportunity to learn more of the French language basics, but I went to one of the few schools in Manitoba that didn't have French courses. I'm poorer culturally because of it, and it's more difficult to learn now. I think it's funny that the two of you who are lecturing people for not learning French ... didn't actually bother to learn French either. Ironically... I actually did learn French. I spent 6 hours a week in grade 7 and grade 8 in "French as a Second Language" classes. What an epic waste of time. I spent hundreds of hours trying to learn a language that I've almost never used outside of school. The only time I've actually used French outside of school was when I was living in Ottawa... I could understand French well enough that I could kind of make out the story of the "Bleu Nuit" soft-porn movies on TQS-Hull late on Friday nights. Cultural enrichment! I wish I had those prime learning hours of free instruction back so that I could use them to learn something that would have been worthwhile. I should have taken music instead of French. I wish I had that decision to make over again. The best learning years of my life and I wasted hundreds of hours on French that I could have spent on guitar. It was a big mistake. I'm poorer culturally because of it, and it's more difficult to learn now. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
Smallc Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 I learned music. I wish I had learned another language instead. Learning another language is never a waste of time. Learning music probably isn't either, but it's less useful generally. Quote
Smallc Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) I think it's funny that the two of you who are lecturing people for not learning French ... didn't actually bother to learn French either. I didn't have the opportunity where I lived. I'm doing my best to learn it on my own off and on, but I do work 10 hours a day 5 days a week right now (well, some weeks), so it's difficult. Edited February 27, 2011 by Smallc Quote
kimmy Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 I learned music. I wish I had learned another language instead. Learning another language is never a waste of time. Learning music probably isn't either, but it's less useful generally. "Generally" is a pretty useless qualifier. I've had no opportunity to speak French with Francophones. I've had opportunities to play music for audiences. Seems to me that music would have been more useful. I didn't have the opportunity where I lived. I'm doing my best to learn it on my own off and on, but I do work 10 hours a day 5 days a week right now (well, some weeks), so it's difficult. Yeah, well, "an Alberta public school education" might be considered the stuff of comedy back east, but I had the opportunity to learn both French, and music, and obviously made the wrong choice. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
Smallc Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 Yeah, well, "an Alberta public school education" might be considered the stuff of comedy back east, but I had the opportunity to learn both French, and music, and obviously made the wrong choice. Outside of remote areas (in which I live) French is part of every grade school curriculum. Quote
Jack Weber Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) Je peux parler le Francais un peux...Mais,Il est tres difficile ici,dans L'Ontario,parce qu'il n'y a beaucoups des gens qui parlent la langue... Mais..La Francais est la premiere langue de ma femme...Elle est Africaine,(Camerounaise)..Alors,les choses qui J'apprenderias dans le 7tieme,8tieme,est,9ieme etaps sont tres important.. Je suis desole pur mas Francais tres mauvais...Je pense que Je sonnes comme J'ai trois ans... Edited February 27, 2011 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
kimmy Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 Outside of remote areas (in which I live) French is part of every grade school curriculum. "Winnipeg" is a remote area? Hey, who cares? French is available to most students. What's lacking for most students is an opportunity to use French outside the classroom. "b-b-but ...government jobs!" "b-b-but ... you could visit Africa!" just doesn't cut it. I learned this shit... and can't speak it anymore, because I just didn't use it. At all. Except for Bleu Nuit, of course. The only reason I even bothered in the first place was that I thought it might be an entrance requirement for some programs at university, and didn't want to limit my options. What a ridiculous fictional reason for deciding to learn something. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
Jack Weber Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) "Winnipeg" is a remote area? Hey, who cares? French is available to most students. What's lacking for most students is an opportunity to use French outside the classroom. "b-b-but ...government jobs!" "b-b-but ... you could visit Africa!" just doesn't cut it. I learned this shit... and can't speak it anymore, because I just didn't use it. At all. Except for Bleu Nuit, of course. The only reason I even bothered in the first place was that I thought it might be an entrance requirement for some programs at university, and didn't want to limit my options. What a ridiculous fictional reason for deciding to learn something. -k I think it's very commendable that your decision to learn French allowed you to decipher French soft- core porn... Kudos!! Edited February 27, 2011 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Smallc Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 "Winnipeg" is a remote area? I don't live in Winnipeg. Quote
kimmy Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 I think it's very commendable that your decision to learn French allowed you to decipher French soft- core porn... Kudos!! weeeell.... it's not exactly Beaudelaire or Rimbaud... -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
kimmy Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 I don't live in Winnipeg. Are you sure? User is online Smallc Icon * * as in just a little * PipPipPipPipPip * Add as Friend * PM this member * Group: Members * Posts: 12,269 * Joined: 05-November 07 * Gender:Male * Location:Winnipeg * Interests:Politics and Cars -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
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