Keepitsimple Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 And if the Speaker rules that ODA was NOT in breach........? I think the Liberals can kiss a whole bunch of womens' votes good-bye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 And if the Speaker rules that ODA was NOT in breach........? I think the Liberals can kiss a whole bunch of womens' votes good-bye. This should not get as far as the Speaker, she should be fired. Harper puts his whole transparent accountable government into question as long as she sits as a Minister. Even Iggy can make hay out of this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) And if the Speaker rules that ODA was NOT in breach........? I think the Liberals can kiss a whole bunch of womens' votes good-bye. Really? Why? Are women more predisposed to support incompetent ministers than men? Explain yourself, because no matter how this goes, one thing is clear, Oda is inept. Judging by her time as Minister of the Status of Women, I doubt very many women will be rallying to her. Maybe you should review Oda's history in cabinet. She's a crappy minister. Edited February 21, 2011 by ToadBrother Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Ashley Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 So Harper cannot just ignore the Speaker or Parliament. He is, after all, just the Prime Minister. He is not the Queen, he is not the Governor General, and he is certainly subordinate in all things to Parliament. It makes me smile when I read things like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 I don't think you quite understand how this works. The Speaker will not rule that Oda is in contempt, he will rule that her actions were a breach, and then it would be referred to the Committee on Parliamentary Privilege, which will ultimately decide whether it is referred to the House for a vote. It is Parliament, not the Government, that decides whether anyone is to be found in Contempt of Parliament. As part of that motion will be whether there is anything beyond a simple vote (ie. basically a sort of public outing with no Parliamentary sanctions or punishments) right on to expulsion from the House. It's not Harper's place to ignore this. Let's remember here, folks, that Harper is just the Prime Minister. I know, in this age of all-powerful PMOs, that it's hard to put the PM's powers in perspective, but he is not the boss of the House, and in a minority situation, he can do little else if the Committee opts to recommend a vote in the House on the breach of privilege than to protest. He cannot overrule Parliament, which is supreme over the Government. He has the power to retain Oda as Minister, because our constitution does not require that a Minister be an MP or Senator in good standing, or even be a member of either House at all (although having Ministers who are not a member of Parliament is extremely rare in the modern Westminster system), so at the end of the day he can go on as business as usual so far as the executive functions go, but it would be a rather strange situation to have a Minister forbidden from the House having to go through proxies. So Harper cannot just ignore the Speaker or Parliament. He is, after all, just the Prime Minister. He is not the Queen, he is not the Governor General, and he is certainly subordinate in all things to Parliament. He could just give us a 3rd "perogie" in 3 years??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 So Harper cannot just ignore the Speaker or Parliament. Actually, he can. He already has several times. Both the Queen and the GG are ceremonial figure heads. They make the final decision, but they "decide" what the Prime Minister tells them to decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Actually, he can. He already has several times. Both the Queen and the GG are ceremonial figure heads. They make the final decision, but they "decide" what the Prime Minister tells them to decide. Not all the time, and that has nothing to do with this. The Speaker of the House of Commons is very powerful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepitsimple Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 (edited) Really? Why? Are women more predisposed to support incompetent ministers than men? Explain yourself, because no matter how this goes, one thing is clear, Oda is inept. Judging by her time as Minister of the Status of Women, I doubt very many women will be rallying to her. Maybe you should review Oda's history in cabinet. She's a crappy minister. Let's just wait and see what the Speaker says. With so few women in political positions of influence, women will not take kindly to the shabby treatment that Oda has received. Very few people - women or men - follow the details of these dust-ups. Rightly or wrongly, if the Speaker rules that she did not commit a breach - EVERYTHING that the opposition has said will be viewed as them trying to score cheap political points. The Liberals have taken a huge risk in their lust for blood - and the NDP are not far behind. Over to you Mr. Milliken. Edited February 22, 2011 by Keepitsimple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Let's just wait and see what the Speaker says. With so few women in political positions of influence, women will not take kindly to the shabby treatment that Oda has received. Very few people - women or men - follow the details of these dust-ups. Rightly or wrongly, if the Speaker rules that she did not commit a breach - EVERYTHING that the opposition has said will be viewed as them trying to score cheap political points. The Liberals have taken a huge risk in their lust for blood - and the NDP are not far behind. Over to you Mr. Milliken. Oh BS. Women of this country are not going to be roused to her defense. Her record in the Women's ministry was so woeful that pretty much most feminist organizations thought her an incompetent. You're trying to invent repurcussions that won't happen. It isn't the Opposition's fault that so few women of any kind of ability want to run under the Tory banner, and the Tories are stuck with an ineffectual halfwit like Oda. Is this what Tory supporters are reduced to? Is this the new line you're being told to spread by Party HQ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Not all the time, and that has nothing to do with this. The Speaker of the House of Commons is very powerful. If he was really half as powerful as people (and the media) tend to think he/she is, Harper would not have appointed* a Liberal. Especially not with a rabid coalition-ready united opposition inventing faux scandal after faux scandal. *Yes, I know there is a vote in the house. But that too is just ceremony. The house votes for the one that the Prime Minister appoints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 You're wrong actually. The house vote isn't just a formality. The speaker is chosen in a secret ballot, and it extremely powerful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 If he was really half as powerful as people (and the media) tend to think he/she is, Harper would not have appointed* a Liberal. Especially not with a rabid coalition-ready united opposition inventing faux scandal after faux scandal. *Yes, I know there is a vote in the house. But that too is just ceremony. The house votes for the one that the Prime Minister appoints. Appointed? What the hell are you talking about? The Governor General is appointed, the House picks the Speaker, the PM has nothing to do with who the Speaker is, beyond being an MP who gets a vote like all the other MPs. It just amazes me how ignorant the Tory supporters around here are of our system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 (edited) Appointed? What the hell are you talking about? The Governor General is appointed, the House picks the Speaker, the PM has nothing to do with who the Speaker is, beyond being an MP who gets a vote like all the other MPs. It just amazes me how ignorant the Tory supporters around here are of our system. It's probably why they see no problem at all in usurping the democratic process... Witness Mr.Baird's antics in committee last spring,the redactment of key documents,and,questionable "perogies"... Edited February 22, 2011 by Jack Weber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 It just amazes me how ignorant the Tory supporters around here are of our system. What amazes me is the ease with which you brand an entire group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 What amazes me is the ease with which you brand an entire group. Quite right. Let me clarify. I'm amazed at how all the Tory supporters I encounter are so ignorant of our system of government. Clearly there is that vast body of Tory supporters that have a clue, and somehow I keep encountering the morons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Quite right. Let me clarify. I'm amazed at how all the Tory supporters I encounter are so ignorant of our system of government. Clearly there is that vast body of Tory supporters that have a clue, and somehow I keep encountering the morons. You really have to stop and analyze this... Why are con morons attracted to you?? What are you doing that makes you such a con moron magnet??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 You really have to stop and analyze this... Why are con morons attracted to you?? What are you doing that makes you such a con moron magnet??? I dunno. I bathe every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 I dunno. I bathe every day. Good answer!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Please. The Prime Minister gives his "recommendation" as to who the house should vote for speaker, and the house votes for that person. That is not my opinion, it's how it actually works. Hint: there's a reason why the media always knows who the speaker is going to be before the vote is held. Because he's already been picked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Please. The Prime Minister gives his "recommendation" as to who the house should vote for speaker, and the house votes for that person. That is not my opinion, it's how it actually works. Hint: there's a reason why the media always knows who the speaker is going to be before the vote is held. Because he's already been picked. The Prime Minister has not nominated Speakers since the mid-1980s. http://www2.parl.gc.ca/sites/lop/aboutparliament/speakershoc/index-e.asp Even before these changes, the PM did not control the Speaker of the House, a venerable position that predates the office of Prime Minister by centuries. The PM has no more influence over a Speaker's decision than any other MP. The Speaker is answerable to the House, not to the PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 (edited) The Prime Minister has not nominated Speakers since the mid-1980s. LOL. You probably think the Queen actually has any say over our parliament too. Edited February 22, 2011 by Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 LOL. You probably think the Queen actually has any say over our parliament too. Was this some attempt at a meaningful response? Oh, I get it, you want to cast aspersions on the entire system, so you insist that somehow the Speaker is a tool of the government. This seems to be a Tory tactic as well, to make the whole system seem so rotten that their own defiance and hatred of Parliament and our constitution seems perfectly normal. You must take me for the kind of halfwits you bully around elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrGreenthumb Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Was this some attempt at a meaningful response? Oh, I get it, you want to cast aspersions on the entire system, so you insist that somehow the Speaker is a tool of the government. This seems to be a Tory tactic as well, to make the whole system seem so rotten that their own defiance and hatred of Parliament and our constitution seems perfectly normal. You must take me for the kind of halfwits you bully around elsewhere. Argueing with the Toad about how our system works is ill-advised. LOL The current right has a high concentration of ultra-religious dingbats, so it is no surprise that facts, and reality are a little foriegn to them. They have been indoctrinated and brainwashed since birth to believe whatever authority tells them to believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Quite right. Let me clarify. I'm amazed at how all the Tory supporters I encounter are so ignorant of our system of government. Clearly there is that vast body of Tory supporters that have a clue, and somehow I keep encountering the morons. Thank you. Your previous comment seemed out of character for you Toad, is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Liberal youtube ad re Oda must resign. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7AM5-fJ82s&feature=player_embedded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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