Calgary removes flouride from municipal water

[GostHacked]

Senosaur.

I know you think adding vitamins and minerals to the water which would benefit our health is not a good idea, and too expensive, but like this fluoride, you only need a little amount in the water to make a difference. But I am sure you are going to poo poo that idea.

Edited February 19, 2011 by GostHacked

[Mr.Canada]

Senosaur.

I know you think adding vitamins and minerals to the water which would benefit our health is not a good idea, and too expensive, but like this fluoride, you only need a little amount in the water to make a difference. But I am sure you are going to poo poo that idea.

It's wrong to forcibly drug the public. We wouldn't be ok with putting birth control in the water supply of the ghetto areas of the country because it costs the state too much in welfare and Mothers allowance payments. We shouldn't be ok with this either.

I'd like to see each region of the country have a vote on it. If they vote for it go ahead if not take it out.

[GostHacked]

It's wrong to forcibly drug the public. We wouldn't be ok with putting birth control in the water supply of the ghetto areas of the country because it costs the state too much in welfare and Mothers allowance payments. We shouldn't be ok with this either.

I'd like to see each region of the country have a vote on it. If they vote for it go ahead if not take it out.

Agreed 100%

[GostHacked]

[Sir Bandelot]

Yeah I bet Segnosaur is also for mandatory flu vaccinations.

[GostHacked]

Yeah I bet Segnosaur is also for mandatory flu vaccinations.

Not a bad assumption.

Here is more on fluoride.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLWk3cBnHOg&feature=related

[bloodyminded]

I love the way that deal is rigged. They cannot force you to join the union because your civil rights would be violated thereby, but your dues are deducted anyway.

Welcome to Canuckistan.

Was it you who, when I was speaking of those suffering under a draconian leadership at WalMart Corp., replied "They can get another job if they don't like it"?

Or if it wasn't you, do you not agree with the sentiment?

If so, then--by definition--the exact same thing applies in your scenario. Zero difference. (Especially since very few unions are of the same monumental level of authoritarian assholery as are the little dudes who run Walmart.)

If people don't want the dues deducted..they can quit, and go find a non-union job.

Edited February 20, 2011 by bloodyminded

[wyly]

This is bull shit..it is all about usery...If we have public health care - why are teeth not included - they are part of the body are they not?

it should be at least for children until 16-18 after that if they abuse their teeth it's their problem...

[wyly]

Again, why is this the only forced medication upon the population? Forced is the key word here. You simply have no choice it seems at the moment. It's really irrelevant if it is safe or not .. maybe it's more of a moral and ethical position, but try to force any other medication on the public as a whole and see how far you get.

I have no choice that our water is chlorinated but I wouldn't drink it if it wasn't...how many canadians died from cholera, typhoid, polio and other pathogens before our water was chlorinated...I took a tour of a water treatment plant decades ago, the chlorine used is the same stuff in chemical warfare of WW1...

[GostHacked]

I have no choice that our water is chlorinated but I wouldn't drink it if it wasn't...how many canadians died from cholera, typhoid, polio and other pathogens before our water was chlorinated...I took a tour of a water treatment plant decades ago, the chlorine used is the same stuff in chemical warfare of WW1...

It's a slow poisoning over years. It can probably manifest in ways we don't know much about (health issues).

[wyly]

It's a slow poisoning over years. It can probably manifest in ways we don't know much about (health issues).

it's been studied by experts and the associated health issues are extremely minimal...where as cholera, typhoid and polio are very quick and there's no doubt as to their lethality why don't you have issues being medicated against your will in that regard?

this fluoridation issue is the same as the MRM vaccine and a link to autism, a few celebrities read some conspiracy crap about medication and make all sorts of invalid claims... in Calgary a few idiot councilors make a uneducated call on behalf of the rest of us without consulting us by plebiscite regarding fluoridation, their logic was they didn't want a minority of non expert voters in a democratic process deciding on fluoridation, a process the supported fluoridation before...instead an even smaller minority 8-9 non-expert councilors made the decision for us, they even rejected the offer from the U of C experts to look into the issue because they knew better...

Edited February 20, 2011 by wyly

[Mr.Canada]

I have no choice that our water is chlorinated but I wouldn't drink it if it wasn't...how many canadians died from cholera, typhoid, polio and other pathogens before our water was chlorinated...I took a tour of a water treatment plant decades ago, the chlorine used is the same stuff in chemical warfare of WW1...

I wouldn't drink any cities water straight from the tsp without filtration anymore. I don't trust it. Look at Walkerton.

[Smallc]

I wouldn't drink any cities water straight from the tsp without filtration anymore. I don't trust it. Look at Walkerton.

I trust it because of Walkerton. Things are much better now.

[wyly]

I wouldn't drink any cities water straight from the tsp without filtration anymore. I don't trust it. Look at Walkerton.

people went to jail for this walkerton issue...when it's done correctly you have nothing to fear it's very professionally monitored...

"For years, the Walkerton Public Utilities Commission operators engaged in a host of improper operating practices, including failing to use adequate doses of chlorine, failing to monitor chlorine residuals daily, making false entries about residuals in daily operating records, and misstating the locations at which microbiological samples were taken. The operators knew that these practices were unacceptable and contrary to Ministry of Environment guidelines and directives."

according to ghost having chlorine added to our water is having medication forced upon us ...

[GostHacked]

people went to jail for this walkerton issue...when it's done correctly you have nothing to fear it's very professionally monitored...

"For years, the Walkerton Public Utilities Commission operators engaged in a host of improper operating practices, including failing to use adequate doses of chlorine, failing to monitor chlorine residuals daily, making false entries about residuals in daily operating records, and misstating the locations at which microbiological samples were taken. The operators knew that these practices were unacceptable and contrary to Ministry of Environment guidelines and directives."

according to ghost having chlorine added to our water is having medication forced upon us ...

So now you are making assumptions on on my behalf? Sweet, take it away, thread is all yours then.

[segnosaur]

It's wrong to forcibly drug the public.

Its also wrong for the government to forcefully make restaurants and food retailers comply with health and safety regulations. If I want to buy or sell rotten, rancid beef, its my right by gawd!!!!

So, why aren't you fighting for that right too?

Oh, and by the way, can I have some money? After all, I pointed out that the 'average' taxpayer pays at least part of the cost for the dental problems of those who don't engage in proper care (e.g. people on welfare, through group insurance plans, etc.) I like money, and I like my money to stay in my pocket. If you're so eager to get rid of fluoridation, then you obviously have no problem paying for the extra costs. So, can I have some of that money?

I wouldn't drink any cities water straight from the tsp without filtration anymore. I don't trust it.

Frankly, your water filtration system may actually cause more problems than it prevents. Depending on the filter type, many can actually provide a medium to increase bacteria growth.

Look at Walkerton.

Yes, lets look at Walkerton... A very sad, tragic case. But, lets put this in context, shall we?

There are roughly 30 million Canadians. Roughly 7 people died. So, it caused the death of 0.000023% of all Canadians. Given the fact that almost everyone consumes water (either directly or indirectly) in a day, that's a pretty small risk. More people did get sick, but the risk was around .008% of the population.

[Mr.Canada]

I trust it because of Walkerton. Things are much better now.

Homestly, I used to feel as you now about tap water smallc but I just don't trust people to do their jobs correctly. It only takes once to kill you smallc, you won't get a mulligan.

[wyly]

Homestly, I used to feel as you now about tap water smallc but I just don't trust people to do their jobs correctly. It only takes once to kill you smallc, you won't get a mulligan.

if you're drinking untreated water the odds are high you'll get ill compared to the rest of us who drink tap water...and if you drink bottled water, that's the same tap water the rest us of drink, you just pay more because it's in a bottle and had the chemical odors/taste removed... Edited February 22, 2011 by wyly

[Bonam]

and if you drink bottled water, that's the same tap water the rest us of drink, you just pay more because it's in a bottle and had the chemical odors/taste removed...

How many times do people repeat this nonsense? Yes, you can buy bottled tap water. You can also buy bottled spring water, bottled glacier water, bottled purified water, bottled remineralized water, bottled carbonated water, etc. These are all different products. Do a bit of research rather than regurgitating BS.

[MapleLeafAlliance]

Governments should not be legislating over drinking water. Drinking water should be 100% privatized. If you want to drink water infused with fluoride, and Vitamin C buy from Company A...if not buy from Company B...etc. Let the buyer choose, and let the buyer beware.

Deciding what to or what not to put into everyone's drinking water is a slippery slope. Either we're free to choose for ourselves, or we're not...I prefer the former.

[GostHacked]

Governments should not be legislating over drinking water. Drinking water should be 100% privatized. If you want to drink water infused with fluoride, and Vitamin C buy from Company A...if not buy from Company B...etc. Let the buyer choose, and let the buyer beware.

Deciding what to or what not to put into everyone's drinking water is a slippery slope. Either we're free to choose for ourselves, or we're not...I prefer the former.

Cities have centralized water systems. There is no way two companies can compete with that kind of system. It may work for electricity, but it wont work for water distribution, unless you get it bottled and delivered.

[segnosaur]

and if you drink bottled water, that's the same tap water the rest us of drink, you just pay more because it's in a bottle and had the chemical odors/taste removed...

How many times do people repeat this nonsense? Yes, you can buy bottled tap water. You can also buy bottled spring water, bottled glacier water, bottled purified water, bottled remineralized water, bottled carbonated water, etc. These are all different products. Do a bit of research rather than regurgitating BS.

Not sure if that's as much B.S. as you might think.

While it may be possible to buy "bottled glacial water", the vast majority of bottled water that's drunk is basically tap water (even when they happen to have pictures of mountain glaciers on the bottle). And even if its carbonated/remineralized, it still probably has tap water as its 'basis'.

Of course, even if water did come from some alternative source (e.g. "fresh mountain springs"), I suspect it would still need to get treated by many of the same processes to ensure its 'safe'.

Oh, and here's something to consider: Perrier (probably one of the most well known brand of "premium" bottled water) had to recall millions of bottles after benzene (a rather nasty chemical that's a well known carcinogen) was found in samples. See: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9C0CE7D61F39F933A25751C0A966958260

Oh, and here's something else to consider: In the U.S. (not sure of the situation here in Canada), they have thousands of people dealing with the safety of tap water. However, they have one person dealing with the safety of bottled water. And he only does it part time. And they don't even check water unless it crosses state lines.

[Bonam]

Not sure if that's as much B.S. as you might think.

While it may be possible to buy "bottled glacial water", the vast majority of bottled water that's drunk is basically tap water (even when they happen to have pictures of mountain glaciers on the bottle). And even if its carbonated/remineralized, it still probably has tap water as its 'basis'.

Why speak in the hypothetical "it may be possible"? Information on any brand of bottled water is readily available online.

Of course, even if water did come from some alternative source (e.g. "fresh mountain springs"), I suspect it would still need to get treated by many of the same processes to ensure its 'safe'.

So?

Oh, and here's something to consider: Perrier (probably one of the most well known brand of "premium" bottled water) had to recall millions of bottles after benzene (a rather nasty chemical that's a well known carcinogen) was found in samples. See: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9C0CE7D61F39F933A25751C0A966958260

Unlike tap water, which can't be "recalled" if something is found in it.

Oh, and here's something else to consider: In the U.S. (not sure of the situation here in Canada), they have thousands of people dealing with the safety of tap water. However, they have one person dealing with the safety of bottled water. And he only does it part time. And they don't even check water unless it crosses state lines.

You mean, not including all the people working at the companies that produce the bottled water whose livelihoods depend on the public wanting to buy their water. A few safety scandals and the popularity of that bottled water brand will plummet. Unlike a government official, private companies have much more incentive to make sure that their product is good and safe. I'll trust a guy at a private company making sure that the water he sells is safe more than the unionized government worker who is supposed to "ensure" the safety of tap water but instead loafs around posting on forums all day

[segnosaur]

While it may be possible to buy "bottled glacial water", the vast majority of bottled water that's drunk is basically tap water (even when they happen to have pictures of mountain glaciers on the bottle). And even if its carbonated/remineralized, it still probably has tap water as its 'basis'.

Why speak in the hypothetical "it may be possible"? Information on any brand of bottled water is readily available online.

I used the phrase "may be possible" not because I doubt that people can buy such "premium" waters; I used the phrase because most water purchased is not premium water. Heck, when you go to your local Taco Bell, they probably don't sell "imported glacial water", they'll have water from one of the larger manufacturers who does use municipal water as its source.

Of course, even if water did come from some alternative source (e.g. "fresh mountain springs"), I suspect it would still need to get treated by many of the same processes to ensure its 'safe'.

So?

Many people complain about tap water because they don't want "chemicals", or want their water to be "natural". But we treat water because what's "natural" is not always safe. (Mmmmm... cholera-tainted well-water.) I would certainly hope that any company selling "premium glacial amazonian water" would take steps to make their products safe. But doing so will itself likely add chemicals. So instead of adding chemicals from one source, you're adding them from another source.

Oh, and here's something to consider: Perrier (probably one of the most well known brand of "premium" bottled water) had to recall millions of bottles after benzene (a rather nasty chemical that's a well known carcinogen) was found in samples.

Unlike tap water, which can't be "recalled" if something is found in it.

They can, however, issue a "boiled tap water advisory", or take similar measures to prevent consumption.

The point is, despite all efforts to make our foot/water "safe", problems will occur. This can happen with both government-sourced tap water and privately produced bottled water. Concentrating only on issues like Walkerton (and slamming tap water over it) while ignoring similar risks inherent in other water sources gives a distorted view of reality.

Oh, and here's something else to consider: In the U.S. (not sure of the situation here in Canada), they have thousands of people dealing with the safety of tap water. However, they have one person dealing with the safety of bottled water. And he only does it part time. And they don't even check water unless it crosses state lines.

You mean, not including all the people working at the companies that produce the bottled water whose livelihoods depend on the public wanting to buy their water.

Strangely enough, all those people who were "worried about their livelyhoods" still managed to distribute a product (Perrier) that was contaminated by benzene. (And I believe it was a government agency which noticed the problem.)

Unlike a government official, private companies have much more incentive to make sure that their product is good and safe.

And private companies also have an incentive to minimize costs, which could cause them to cut back on their food safety programs (perhaps a short-sighted option, but still one that many might take.)

I don't necessarily think private companies would always be horrible at policing themselves. But there are benefits and drawbacks to both public AND private food and water inspections.

Edited February 22, 2011 by segnosaur

[segnosaur]

Senosaur.

I know you think adding vitamins and minerals to the water which would benefit our health is not a good idea, and too expensive, but like this fluoride, you only need a little amount in the water to make a difference.

Do you ever get tired of spewing nonsense on here? Do you ever actually provide any real proof to justify your opinions?

Its getting rather annoying debunking your claims, and since you tend to make unsubstantiated claims, its not quite fair.

The easiest way to debunk your claim is to point out:

- The cost of fluoridating water works out to roughly $0.50/person/year (see: http://www.cdc.gov/fluoridation/fact_sheets/cost.htm)

- The cheapest multivitamin I found on the Wal-Mart web site is $10.97 for 90 tablets, giving a cost of $44.49/year

So, adding vitamins to the water would be more than 88 times move expensive than adding fluoride.

But I am sure you are going to poo poo that idea.

Of course I'm going to poo-poo the idea. You spout nonsense without ever substantiating your claims.

Here is more on fluoride.

(you-tube videos deleted)

Here's a question... why do people who believe in non-sense insist on using videos to 'prove' their point? Its the same way with 9/11 conspiracy believers.

If you actually have a valid point, then present it here in this forum. Provide evidence from a mainstream source. It is not up to me to try to listen to some lame biased video to try to find points to pick apart.

One of those videos you presented is from the "Prison Planet" web site, a conspiracy nut-job site run by Alex Jones (who was involved in the Loose Change 9/11 conspiracy movie). So, keep that in mind when viewing the you-tube fluoride videos: one was made by the same guy who believes 9/11 was a hoax.

Edited February 22, 2011 by segnosaur