Are Harper's Conservatives RHINO's ?

[pfezziwig]

RHINO is the acronym for Republicans in Name Only, used to describe so called republicans down south who spent like drunken sailors and increased the size of government. The Tea Party is challenging these RHINO's and even overthrowing some of them.

Would our Conservatives be considered RHINO's after the deficit spending for the last 5 years and Parliamentary Budget Officer Kevin Page recently says the government has yet to unveil a strategy for cuts it needs to achieve to balance the budget in five years.

I'ld like to propose a Canadian acronym for Harper's Conservatives, C.O.I.N. 'Conservative Only In Name'. Is it fair to say Harper's Conservative are mirroring the old school republicans down south who were fiscally irresponsible and we need some new blood in the Conservative party, or some Tea Parties to challenge them?

[Battletoads]

No their not rhinos,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinoceros_Party_of_Canada_%281963%E2%80%931993%29

The rhinos were probably the only honest party Canada's ever had.

[WIP]

RHINO is the acronym for Republicans in Name Only, used to describe so called republicans down south who spent like drunken sailors and increased the size of government. The Tea Party is challenging these RHINO's and even overthrowing some of them.

And a nice little fictional story it is! The fact is that Bush II doubled the size of the U.S. national debt (just like Reagan doubled the debt during his terms); but now the business-controlled right wing has got religion and through organizations they created like Tea Party Express, sent their minions out there to protest the waste created by Obama! And this little play is carried in glorious technicolor by Foxnews, CNBC, rightwing radio, and worst of all - taken seriously by the MSM.

The goal of the right was established over 40 years ago: "starve the beast;" and they have been putting the policy of ramping up military spending while cutting taxes ever since Reagan became President more than 30 years ago. The right only wants to shrink government that serves the majority of people, not government that allows their corporations to be world players and maintain their system of globalization. Right now, we're hearing talk all over the U.S. of cuts to state and local government staff, and threats to decertify public service unions....which I should add, are the only unions left in America anymore, since the trade unions have been effectively decimated by right wing economic and political strategy. Next enemy on the list: Social Security; the right and their Democratic lackeys are going after the pensions for money, because they just can't bring themselves to take on America's gargantuan military! And, let's not forget that the more than half of U.S. revenues that go to defense spending have enriched military contractors that have been making a killing since the Cold War by building more crap to blow up!

I couldn't help noticing recently, that a lot of media attention has been payed to JFK's Inaugural Speech: "ask not what your country can do".......you know the rest! While a much more important speech the previous week by retiring President Eisenhower has gone almost completely without mention: Military-Industrial Complex Speech, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961

If Harper, who has been pretty much following the REpublican playbook to the letter up till now, is leaving the reservation even a little - to invite insults like "rhino", then I guess he's smarter than I gave him credit for!

Edited January 21, 2011 by WIP

[Shady]

RHINO is the acronym for Republicans in Name Only, used to describe so called republicans down south who spent like drunken sailors and increased the size of government. The Tea Party is challenging these RHINO's and even overthrowing some of them.

Would our Conservatives be considered RHINO's after the deficit spending for the last 5 years and Parliamentary Budget Officer Kevin Page recently says the government has yet to unveil a strategy for cuts it needs to achieve to balance the budget in five years.

I'ld like to propose a Canadian acronym for Harper's Conservatives, C.O.I.N. 'Conservative Only In Name'. Is it fair to say Harper's Conservative are mirroring the old school republicans down south who were fiscally irresponsible and we need some new blood in the Conservative party, or some Tea Parties to challenge them?

I would agree if Harper had a majority government. But he doesn't. And much of the negative spending problems are influences from the minority side of the aisle. They haven't met a Harper budget in which they didn't think needed more spending.

[nicky10013]

I would agree if Harper had a majority government. But he doesn't. And much of the negative spending problems are influences from the minority side of the aisle. They haven't met a Harper budget in which they didn't think needed more spending.

There's always an excuse. Even if Harper had a majority, there still would be an excuse. Take some responsibility.

[Shady]

There's always an excuse. Even if Harper had a majority, there still would be an excuse. Take some responsibility.

Just tell me which budget the minority didn't want spending increased? Just one.

[madmax]

Just tell me which budget the minority didn't want spending increased? Just one.

The Conservatives spend like Republicans and act like Republicans.

The Conservatives Create the Budget, not the Opposition.

The Conservatives created the Cuts that made it impossible to pay the bills.

The Conservatives blew the previous surpluses within a few years of take power. By the time they had called an election in 2008 the cupboard was bare just like their principles.

The Conservatives (seems everytime in power) Reset the Bar for RECORD DEFICITS!!!

Conservatives supporters blame everyone but their party.

They cannot find themselves in the mirror.

[Shady]

The Conservatives spend like Republicans and act like Republicans.

The Conservatives Create the Budget, not the Opposition.

The Conservatives created the Cuts that made it impossible to pay the bills.

The Conservatives blew the previous surpluses within a few years of take power. By the time they had called an election in 2008 the cupboard was bare just like their principles.

The Conservatives (seems everytime in power) Reset the Bar for RECORD DEFICITS!!!

Conservatives supporters blame everyone but their party.

They cannot find themselves in the mirror.

Like I said. Just tell me which budget the minority didn't want spending increased? Just one. Because every year, they threaten an election because Harper's been too cruel and not spent enough on something. You can't have it both ways. Just tell me one.

[Scotty]

The Conservatives spend like Republicans and act like Republicans.

The Conservatives bear no resemblance to the Republicans I can see. In fact, the Tories are further to the Left than the US Democratic Party. On some issues, quite a bit further.

The Conservatives Create the Budget, not the Opposition.

Perhaps you forgot the united opposition threatening to bring down the minority government if they didn't institute a massive incentive program? So we should punish the Tories for the resulting deficit and -- reward the opposition?

The Conservatives created the Cuts that made it impossible to pay the bil[

ls.

I believe the economy and a massive incentive program were mainly responsible for that.

The Conservatives blew the previous surpluses within a few years of take power. By the time they had called an election in 2008 the cupboard was bare just like their principles.

I'll grant you that some of their cuts were not wise. On the other hand, the government was taking in many billions more than it needed to pay the bills and to pay down the debt. Lowering taxes returned that money to Canadians, which, in theory, helps to stimulate the economy and bring more jobs - and thus more taxes.

The Conservatives (seems everytime in power) Reset the Bar for RECORD DEFICITS!!!

One might note the Conservative always take power after the Liberals have screwed up. I don't think a reasonable person would blame the Mulroney conservatives for the huge deficits which started under Trudeau and continued under Chretien for four years (many people seem to forget that). As for Harper, every budget was in the black until the most recent one last year. And given the economic problems and the demand for a massive incentive program, they get to share the blame for that one with the opposition.

[nicky10013]

Like I said. Just tell me which budget the minority didn't want spending increased? Just one. Because every year, they threaten an election because Harper's been too cruel and not spent enough on something. You can't have it both ways. Just tell me one.

Military, Afghanistan, Tax cuts...tkae your pick.

[Shady]

Military, Afghanistan, Tax cuts...tkae your pick.

Which budget was that?

[nicky10013]

The Conservatives bear no resemblance to the Republicans I can see. In fact, the Tories are further to the Left than the US Democratic Party. On some issues, quite a bit further.

Are they really more left or are they there because they're forced to be because of political expediency? It's the latter. Considering some of Harper's own speeches before he ran for the leadership, he's much closer to the Republican example than the PC example.

Perhaps you forgot the united opposition threatening to bring down the minority government if they didn't institute a massive incentive program? So we should punish the Tories for the resulting deficit and -- reward the opposition?

Yeah, a stimulus of 30 billion. It's up to 60. Where is the financial accountability. You're saying that since they wanted 30 they're at fault for the other 30 billion of pure waste. That's not the way it works.

ls.

I believe the economy and a massive incentive program were mainly responsible for that.

Unfortunately, that's not the case.

I'll grant you that some of their cuts were not wise. On the other hand, the government was taking in many billions more than it needed to pay the bills and to pay down the debt. Lowering taxes returned that money to Canadians, which, in theory, helps to stimulate the economy and bring more jobs - and thus more taxes.

Yeah, see, that's what they want you to think. The Liberals weren't taking that money and putting it away in the safe. No one was "overtaxed" as is often claimed. They were taking the surpluses and putting it towards paying off the debt. The lower the debt, the less interest we have to pay and the more money we have in the future towards things like reducing the tax burden, paying into CPP, investing in health care and rainy day funds to put money aside to combat recessions like the one we went through.

One might note the Conservative always take power after the Liberals have screwed up. I don't think a reasonable person would blame the Mulroney conservatives for the huge deficits which started under Trudeau and continued under Chretien for four years (many people seem to forget that). As for Harper, every budget was in the black until the most recent one last year. And given the economic problems and the demand for a massive incentive program, they get to share the blame for that one with the opposition.

I'd also like to note that the Liberals get in after the CONSERVATIVES screw up. I'd also like to note that yes, after 4 years the Liberals balanced the budget but the accounting was so bad from both Trudeau and Mulroney that of course it was going to take them more than 1 year.

As for the opposition being responsible for the deficit, I'd argue they're responsible for the 30 billion for the stimulus but beyond that absolultely not. I'd also argue that it's quite clear Canada had run a deficit before the recession had begun and that after the stimulus is over, the structural deficit mess we have is solely based on the CPC's irresponsible package of tax cuts.

What I also find as ironic is that CPC supporters freely blame the opposition for the deficit, but also heap all the credit for any economic success towards the government. If the opposition forced the govenrment to run deficits but those worked, shouldn't the opposition in your books own the economic record of success you claim to be Stephen Harpers?

Edited January 21, 2011 by nicky10013

[nicky10013]

Which budget was that?

Every budget.

[Shady]

Every budget.

Does that include the budget the opposition threatened to dissolve parlaiment if they didn't get $50 billion dollars in deficit stimulus spending?

[nicky10013]

Does that include the budget the opposition threatened to dissolve parlaiment if they didn't get $50 billion dollars in deficit stimulus spending?

Since when did 30 become 50?

Canada’s Economic Action Plan will provide almost $30 billion in support to the Canadian economy this year. In total, this is equivalent to 1.9 per cent of our total economy.

http://www.fin.gc.ca/n08/09-011-eng.asp

[Shady]

Since when did 30 become 50?

That's only counting 2009. Although at least we're making progress. I'm glad your finally acknowledging the tens of billions of dollars in deficit spending the minority parties have contributed to.

[nicky10013]

That's only counting 2009.

Yeah, exactly...yet the deficit was still gigantic...so are you going to account that the rest was waste? Oh, of course not.

[Shady]

Yeah, exactly...yet the deficit was still gigantic...so are you going to account that the rest was waste? Oh, of course not.

Yes, the deficit was gigantic in '09, due in large part to the $30 billion dollars in deficit stimulus spending sought by your minority friends in parlaiment. But there's also deficit stimulus spending in '10, and even some in '11. But if you look at the overall budget minus the deficit stimulus spending, it's not much different from the '08, and '07 levels of balanced budgets. The biggest difference is in the revenue coming into the government, which is a direct result of the large recession.

[Keepitsimple]

Is it fair to say Harper's Conservative are mirroring the old school republicans down south who were fiscally irresponsible and we need some new blood in the Conservative party, or some Tea Parties to challenge them?

No.

[jbg]

RHINO is the acronym for Republicans in Name Only, used to describe so called republicans down south who spent like drunken sailors and increased the size of government. The Tea Party is challenging these RHINO's and even overthrowing some of them.

Can't even get the acronym right?

[jbg]

There's always an excuse. Even if Harper had a majority, there still would be an excuse. Take some responsibility.

Maybe we'll get to find out this spring.

[August1991]

The Conservatives bear no resemblance to the Republicans I can see. In fact, the Tories are further to the Left than the US Democratic Party. On some issues, quite a bit further.

I agree.

Our Conservatives are social liberals, fiscal conservatives - sort of, and our Conservatives are sort of American RINOs.

Except. Regional politics drive Canadian federal politics. In Canadian federal politics, left/right is meaningless.

Canadian federal politics are all about regions, protecting the minority.

Edited January 23, 2011 by August1991

[pfezziwig]

Would the Conservatives lose or gain more votes by propsing we live within our means? I know traditionally more spending wins more votes but in this day and age would you say they might actually win more votes buy cutting the size of government?

Many independent voters are concerned about the deficit, wouldn't it be a small net gain taking this position, and have the ndp and liberals fight over the deficit spending public sector supporters?

[Battletoads]

Would the Conservatives lose or gain more votes by propsing we live within our means? I know traditionally more spending wins more votes but in this day and age would you say they might actually win more votes buy cutting the size of government?

Many independent voters are concerned about the deficit, wouldn't it be a small net gain taking this position, and have the ndp and liberals fight over the deficit spending public sector supporters?

Slashing taxs while slashing programs wouldn't go down well with many Canadians.

[pfezziwig]

No.

Judging by the recent goings on in Alberta I'ld say some Canadian Tea Parties are on the rise.