August1991 Posted January 15, 2011 Report Posted January 15, 2011 (edited) Would this revolt in Tunisia be possible if not for Bush Jnr's Lebanonisation of Iraq? IMV, this is the question to ask. Others claim that mobile phones, Facebook, Internet explain Tunisia's change. (Technology due to America... ) I disagree. IMV, it is ordinary Tunisians who are making this change. Let's see how this unfolds. In Tunisia, and elsewhere in the Middle East. And lastly, will the fanatical Muslim Brotherhood take control? I think Bush Jnr has made America's response plain. Edited January 15, 2011 by August1991 Quote
Jack Weber Posted January 15, 2011 Report Posted January 15, 2011 (edited) I don't think that's the question to ask at all...I don't even think it's relevant because there have been revolts before without the prodding from the Bush administration you seem to think is the catalyst... The REAL question I have,after gleefully watching a Fascist thug cowardly walk away after the people he subjugated rose up against him,is... Who fills the power vacuum afterwards? Will we see some sort of nascent democracy in a region that does'nt know democracy at all? or... Will we see an unfortunate rise in Islamofascism in Tunisia,and have those horrific bloodthirsty thugs take over that country? Another thing I saw last night was that the son of this Tunisian Fascist piece of work lives in Montreal in a multimillion dollar mansion,no doubt bought with the proceeds DaDa stole from his countrymen...And that it is quite possible that he may come to live here in exile... Let's hope the door is firmly shut for thos authoritarian POS,and that he is refused entry into this country... Edited January 15, 2011 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Bonam Posted January 15, 2011 Report Posted January 15, 2011 Will we see an unfortunate rise in Islamofascism in Tunisia,and have those horrific bloodthirsty thugs take over that country? Of course. That has been the trend in North Africa for some time. Let's hope the door is firmly shut for thos authoritarian POS,and that he is refused entry into this country... What's the chance of that? This is Canada we're talking about after all. Our door is wide open. Quote
Smallc Posted January 15, 2011 Report Posted January 15, 2011 What's the chance of that? This is Canada we're talking about after all. Our door is wide open. Exaggerate much? Quote
bud Posted January 16, 2011 Report Posted January 16, 2011 What's the chance of that? This is Canada we're talking about after all. Our door is wide open. you don't seem to know much about the canadian immigration process. Quote http://whoprofits.org/
August1991 Posted January 17, 2011 Author Report Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) I don't think that's the question to ask at all...I don't even think it's relevant because there have been revolts before without the prodding from the Bush administration you seem to think is the catalyst... I don't think that Bush Jnr's decision to remove Saddam Hussein in Iraq was a catalyst of events in Tunisia. I just think that Bush made these events more possible.Watch next for Egypt. I tend to agree with Mark Steyn that "stability" in the Middle East is not in America's interests. The REAL question I have,after gleefully watching a Fascist thug cowardly walk away after the people he subjugated rose up against him,is...Who fills the power vacuum afterwards? Will we see some sort of nascent democracy in a region that does'nt know democracy at all? or... Will we see an unfortunate rise in Islamofascism in Tunisia,and have those horrific bloodthirsty thugs take over that country? Are you a racist, or simply smug? Do you think Tunisians are incapable of democracy (while we Canadians manage it)? Another thing I saw last night was that the son of this Tunisian Fascist piece of work lives in Montreal in a multimillion dollar mansion,no doubt bought with the proceeds DaDa stole from his countrymen...And that it is quite possible that he may come to live here in exile...A better question is CIDA payments to Tunisia over the years.Or rather, how many billions of tax dollars have we given to such regimes? Our federal bureaucrats feel important, and our politicians look good helping the world's poor. Meanwhile, the money indirectly goes to Swiss bank accounts - or houses in Westchester or Westmount. (I would prefer a world baby bonus scheme - money paid directly to mothers in the thrid world.) But that's a separate issue. Edited January 17, 2011 by August1991 Quote
guyser Posted January 17, 2011 Report Posted January 17, 2011 How about the people have had enough. The fruit seller getting repeatedly ripped off is the root of the problem. As one Tunisian said, the blood of the young will freely flow to obtain democracy. Quote
JB Globe Posted January 17, 2011 Report Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) Would this revolt in Tunisia be possible if not for Bush Jnr's Lebanonisation of Iraq? IMV, this is the question to ask. Iraq had nothing to do with it. Because while Bush was "spreading democracy" in Iraq, he was suppressing it in Tunisia, being an ally of the now-deposed despot. Tunisians don't dislike US foreign policy without reason. Edited January 17, 2011 by JB Globe Quote
bud Posted January 18, 2011 Report Posted January 18, 2011 the uprising is led by the labour movement and internet activists. curious to see how the U.S. will respond to this. Quote http://whoprofits.org/
bloodyminded Posted January 18, 2011 Report Posted January 18, 2011 the uprising is led by the labour movement and internet activists. curious to see how the U.S. will respond to this. If they were absolutely supportive, Hilary Clinton would have said so by now. They're watching, and editing remarks, I imagine. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Jack Weber Posted January 18, 2011 Report Posted January 18, 2011 (edited) I don't think that Bush Jnr's decision to remove Saddam Hussein in Iraq was a catalyst of events in Tunisia. I just think that Bush made these events more possible. Watch next for Egypt. I tend to agree with Mark Steyn that "stability" in the Middle East is not in America's interests. Are you a racist, or simply smug? Do you think Tunisians are incapable of democracy (while we Canadians manage it)? A better question is CIDA payments to Tunisia over the years. Or rather, how many billions of tax dollars have we given to such regimes? Our federal bureaucrats feel important, and our politicians look good helping the world's poor. Meanwhile, the money indirectly goes to Swiss bank accounts - or houses in Westchester or Westmount. (I would prefer a world baby bonus scheme - money paid directly to mothers in the thrid world.) But that's a separate issue. 1. What a stupid statement/question,kid. Are you such a twit as to think that democracy just magically happens in places that have never known it? If you do believe that nonesense,could you point to three (3) historical examples to back your claim up? Watch next for Egypt?? Hosni Mubarek,the US's Fascist aparatchik next door to Gaza??? If Mubarek falls,the non-existant democracy that is Egypt will surely fall into the hands of the Islamofascists.Egypt is the home of the Muslim Brotherhood... Egypt will remain the US's Fascist prop up in the region,or,turn Islamofascist...There will be no democracy there! The reason we turn a blind eye to the financial shenanigans of these tin pot Fascist thugs is because they seem to keep a lid on the scary extreme elements in those countries...It's more expedient to deal with Fascists,becaue all they seem to care about is money,the consolidation of power,and,killing their enemies(who are everyone else),than it is to fund nascent democratic movements within those countries... Ask yourself why the US Sate Department would rather have dealt with muderous thugs like General Augusto Pinochet,or Anastazio Samoza,or,General Alfredo Stroessner than democratic movements in those countries? Edited January 18, 2011 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
bud Posted January 18, 2011 Report Posted January 18, 2011 Ask yourself why the US Sate Department would rather have dealt with muderous thugs like General Augusto Pinochet,or Anastazio Samoza,or,General Alfredo Stroessner than democratic movements in those countries? sounds like you don't really believe in democracy. such a shame. so why did they support those guys? because of corporations who make a lot more money when these dictators are in power. when a country is poor and it's ruled by dictators who are more than willing to take a cut of the money instead of serving their people, then you will have a government which will be friendly to its masters. you think the south american countries would attack the U.S. if they had a democratically elected government who served the people? because it is finally happening now and no such thing is happening. this is never about 'security'. it's all about corporations who don't give a shit about you or the country they are exploiting. Quote http://whoprofits.org/
Jack Weber Posted January 18, 2011 Report Posted January 18, 2011 (edited) sounds like you don't really believe in democracy. such a shame. so why did they support those guys? because of corporations who make a lot more money when these dictators are in power. when a country is poor and it's ruled by dictators who are more than willing to take a cut of the money instead of serving their people, then you will have a government which will be friendly to its masters. you think the south american countries would attack the U.S. if they had a democratically elected government who served the people? because it is finally happening now and no such thing is happening. this is never about 'security'. it's all about corporations who don't give a shit about you or the country they are exploiting. Well... Thanks for making my point about expediency and Fascists... The Pinko's in Moscow were just as bad...They were more obvious... If you don't think I don't believe in democracy,then you don't read much of what I've had to say here... It's not that I don't believe in democracy,it's just that I don't believe something like that would magically flourish in a region that has never known it.Furthermore,I would argue that in a coming power vacuum in that region,sadly,the most likely candidate to take over would be one who takes orders from the Islamofascists NOT democratically minded people... Therefore,I'll ask you the same question as August... Give me three (3) examples throughout history where a despot has been forcibly removed from power,and a burgeoning multi-party democracy (with all the operating public institutions) magically pops up? And please don't say Romania after Ceaucescu... Edited January 25, 2011 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
August1991 Posted January 19, 2011 Author Report Posted January 19, 2011 Therefore,I'll ask you the same question as August...Give me three (3) examples throughout history where a despot has been forcibly removed from power,and a burgeoning multi-party democracy (with all the operating public institutions) magically pops up? And please don't say Romania after Ceaucescu... France after Napoleon, the UK after Charles II and the US after George III. Spain in the 1970s. Japan after WWII. Korea, Taiwan. China after Mao?? South Africa after apartheid, Poland after 1989. The Czech Republic after the Velvet Revolution. India after the Raj. "And please don't say Romania after Ceaucescu... " Why not?Jack, I'm with Churchill: Democracy is only good compared to all the other alternatives. Quote
Jack Weber Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 Well,August... I take it back because there are huge,and very violent,demonstrations in Cairo as I type this... I'm still dubious about who would fill a power vacuum in that region,however... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Shwa Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 Well,August... I take it back because there are huge,and very violent,demonstrations in Cairo as I type this... I'm still dubious about who would fill a power vacuum in that region,however... I was just reading about this, or rather, the reading the rumours about this because there are no "officials sources" available to comment at this time. Seems like the Egyptian government has the power to pull the plug on social media as well? Quote
Jack Weber Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 I was just reading about this, or rather, the reading the rumours about this because there are no "officials sources" available to comment at this time. Seems like the Egyptian government has the power to pull the plug on social media as well? A Fascist like Mubarek is a control freak?? No way!!!! Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Shwa Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 A Fascist like Mubarek is a control freak?? No way!!!! What I was surprised as was the speed in which it was accomplished. Almost as easy as pulling a plug. How is this possible in this day and age? Quote
Jack Weber Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) What I was surprised as was the speed in which it was accomplished. Almost as easy as pulling a plug. How is this possible in this day and age? Complete and total control of all media outlets...In fact,there is probably no more than two daily newspapers in Cairo and maybe two radio and TV stations...All parroting the gov't line The hallmark of an authoritarian state... I'd also bet heavily that there is a huge Chinese influence in Egypt,if there is that much control over the 'Net... Fascism is on the rise!!! Edited January 25, 2011 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
eyeball Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 Would this revolt in Tunisia be possible if not for Bush Jnr's Lebanonisation of Iraq? IMV, this is the question to ask. People in the path of these revolts told us Dubya's invasion of Iraq would be responsible for them. Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak said on Monday the U.S.-led war on Iraq would produce "one hundred new bin Ladens", driving more Muslims to anti-Western militancy.. http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0331-01.htm Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Jack Weber Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 This is the problem,eyeball,with a power vacuum in this region.A nascent democratic society is probably NOT what will occur.Sadly,an even worse autocratic Islamofascist type of regime would be the most likely scenario...Especially in Egypt... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
bud Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 israel won't like what's happening in egypt. if it does happen in egypt, i highly doubt that the people will vote in extremists. i can see something like in the case of turkey. Quote http://whoprofits.org/
Jack Weber Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 israel won't like what's happening in egypt. if it does happen in egypt, i highly doubt that the people will vote in extremists. i can see something like in the case of turkey. We'll see... Essentially,modern democracy is an unknown in Egypt...It's not like the likes of Nasser and Sadat were democrats.Mubarek certainly is not a democrat. The sad fact of the mattter is that the people of Egypt might not have a choice in who they elect if some sort of violent civil war breaks out... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
bud Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 a lot of investment has gone into egypt in order to have a yes-man. this could be over very soon. Quote http://whoprofits.org/
bud Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 We'll see... Essentially,modern democracy is an unknown in Egypt...It's not like the likes of Nasser and Sadat were democrats.Mubarek certainly is not a democrat. The sad fact of the mattter is that the people of Egypt might not have a choice in who they elect if some sort of violent civil war breaks out... i'm a little more optimistic. the egyptians that i've come across usually have a pretty good understanding of politics and the system. a good percentage of them are also educated. i doubt they will allow this opportunity to go to waste. if it happens, lets just hope that their elected official is liked by US (and israel). otherwise, we could see another attempt to overthrow the elected government. Quote http://whoprofits.org/
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