M.Dancer Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 But why would they want citizenship is the aparteid state.. oh maybe because...? A poll suggests that a plurality of Jerusalem Palestinians would rather remain in Israel even after a peace deal and the creation of a Palestinian state.A poll this week shows that 35 per cent of Jerusalem's Palestinian residents would choose Israeli citizenship over Palestinian citizenship. Thirty per cent said they preferred Palestinian citizenship. Another 35 per cent said they did not know. Respondents who chose Israeli citizenship cited freedom of movement, higher income and Israeli health insurance as the reasons behind their choice. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/africa-mideast/many-jerusalem-palestinians-would-prefer-israeli-citizenship-after-peace-deal/article1869953/ Personally, I think they should apply... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 With the restrictions of building materials to the West Bank and Gaza, and the constant demolition of homes and buildings by Israel, and by restricting food to those areas, of course people will want to live somewhere else if given the chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted January 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 With the restrictions of building materials to the West Bank and Gaza, and the constant demolition of homes and buildings by Israel, and by restricting food to those areas, of course people will want to live somewhere else if given the chance. This isn't the west bank, or gaza...food is not restricted, yadda yadda yadda... They don't want to live somewhere else, they want to live where they are....as Israelis.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 This isn't the west bank, or gaza...food is not restricted, yadda yadda yadda.. They don't want to live somewhere else, they want to live where they are....as Israelis.. Your post is misleading. The poll seems to be evenly split. One third want to remain Palestinian, one third wants to become Israeli citizens, the other third is undecided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted January 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Your post is misleading. The poll seems to be evenly split. One third want to remain Palestinian, one third wants to become Israeli citizens, the other third is undecided. What exactly is misleading about what I posted...what you incorrectly cite? 35% want Israeli citizenship 30% do not a 5% difference...a plurality! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Your post is misleading. The poll seems to be evenly split. One third want to remain Palestinian, one third wants to become Israeli citizens, the other third is undecided. I would say 1/3 constitutes "many." If you don't think so, then you would also have to disagree with this statement: 'Many Jerusalem Palestinians want to remain Palestinian.' Do you think that's a misleading statement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Not too suprising really... theres gonna be a predisposition towards being a citizen of a dominating country over a dominated country. Most afghans would probably rather live in Massecheusets, or Illinois instead of under the Karzai government as well. The poll is stupid and pointless and the result is exactly what anyone would expect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted January 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Not too suprising really... theres gonna be a predisposition towards being a citizen of a dominating country over a dominated country. Most afghans would probably rather live in Massecheusets, or Illinois instead of under the Karzai government as well. The poll is stupid and pointless and the result is exactly what anyone would expect. Your analogy is flawed...we aren't talking about people relocating. A better analogy would be asking Puerto Ricans whether they wold want to be americans if PR became a nation. I realize that the results fly in the face of those who are prejudiced towards palestinians... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 What exactly is misleading about what I posted...what you incorrectly cite? 35% want Israeli citizenship 30% do not a 5% difference...a plurality! So what? Israel has no interest in assimilating any substancial part of the palestinian population. If anything they will want to get rid of a whole bunch of them as part of any peace deal. Theres been an interest expressed in trading some of the towns along the border where a lot of arabs live, for important jewish settlements in the west bank. In any case, what is the releveance of a poll predicated on a two-state solution that Israel will never allow in 1000 years. If the morons in that god forsaken dump make peace with each other while you and I are still alive Ill sign you over the deed to my house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 (edited) Your analogy is flawed...we aren't talking about people relocating. A better analogy would be asking Puerto Ricans whether they wold want to be americans if PR became a nation. I realize that the results fly in the face of those who are prejudiced towards palestinians... I realize that the results fly in the face of those who are prejudiced towards palestinians... The results are too fat and stupid to fly ANYWHERE. Gee! Lets have a poll about whether people want to live under a relatively modern and liberal society, or a mythical state that doesnt exist and never will! The poll has value for blind sports fans that want something to rub in the other sides face but thats about it. Edited January 14, 2011 by dre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted January 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 The results are too fat and stupid to fly ANYWHERE. Gee! Lets have a poll about whether people want to live under a relatively modern and liberal society, or a mythical state that doesnt exist and never will! The poll has value for blind sports fans that want something to rub in the other sides face but thats about it. The poll has value because Jeruslaem as a capital of a Palsestian state won't fly if a majority of Arabs would rather stay Israeli.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 The poll has value because Jeruslaem as a capital of a Palsestian state won't fly if a majority of Arabs would rather stay Israeli.. I guess. I just didnt need a poll to tell me that Jerusalem isnt going to be the capital of a mythical state that will never exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted January 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 I guess. I just didnt need a poll to tell me that Jerusalem isnt going to be the capital of a mythical state that will never exist. Regardless it is one of the demand of the PA. A demand they make, like you, know is impossible. And that is why the poll is important. Remove the demand, an agreement inches closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Regardless it is one of the demand of the PA. A demand they make, like you, know is impossible. And that is why the poll is important. Remove the demand, an agreement inches closer. Remove the demand in exchange for what? Theres still no compelling reason for Israel to leave the occupied territories. "Security" isnt a motivator because Israel believes they would have the same security problems if there was an officially recognized state as they do now, and it would just make them harder to deal with, and Israel is currently plundering the west bank for resources... they have extremely important national infrastructure all over the place. Just forget about a peace deal unless someone decides to force it on both sides. You might as well believe in the tooth fairy. The next 50 years will look just like the last 50 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 The poll has value because Jeruslaem as a capital of a Palsestian state won't fly if a majority of Arabs would rather stay Israeli.. Not to mention the fact that Israel does not want to give up Jerusalem. So if that happens, the Palestinians won't have a choice, get kicked out or become an Israeli citizen. Israel is creating a problem, giving a solution that holds a gun to their heads, and then blame the Palestinians for whatever choice they make. Stay and become Israeli citizens, or get kicked out and live in the occupied territories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 (edited) Not to mention the fact that Israel does not want to give up Jerusalem. So if that happens, the Palestinians won't have a choice, get kicked out or become an Israeli citizen. Israel is creating a problem, giving a solution that holds a gun to their heads, and then blame the Palestinians for whatever choice they make. Stay and become Israeli citizens, or get kicked out and live in the occupied territories. Thats IF they allow them to stay and become Israeli citizens. Ethnic Cleansing is a popular policy in Israel these days under the more politically correct term "Transfer". Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni told a group of Tel Aviv high school students last December, and among other things, I will be able to approach the Palestinian residents of Israel, those whom we call Israeli Arabs, and tell them, your national solution lies elsewhere. Some 55 percent of Jewish Israelis say that the state should encourage Arab emigration;78 percent of Jewish Israelis oppose including Arab parties in the government; 56 percent agree with the statement that Arabs cannot attain the Jewish level of cultural development; 75 percent agree that Arabs are inclined to be violent. Among Arab-Israelis, 54 percent feel the same way about Jews. 75 percent of Israeli Jews say they would not live in the same building as Arabs. If anything a "peace deal" would include the "transfer" or some or all arab Israelis to the new Arab state. Edited January 14, 2011 by dre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted January 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Thats IF they allow them to stay and become Israeli citizens. Ethnic Cleansing is a popular policy in Israel these days under the more politically correct term "Transfer". When have they "transfered" anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 (edited) When have they "transfered" anyone? According to Israeli Historian Benny Morris Israel drove 600 thousand people out just between 1947 and 1949. The "security wall" they built deep inside palestinians also resulted in "transfer". Israels efforts to disrupt economic and human development, agriculture and so on, has also indirectly driven palestinians out of the area and in various refugee camps. But transfer in the context I described is a relatively new idea thats gained popularity over the last few years with Israeli citizens and politicians. In any case the point is theres absolutely no guarantee that the Arabs in your poll will even have the option of staying in Jerusalem if theres a peace deal. Edited January 14, 2011 by dre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted January 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 According to Israeli Historian Benny Morris Israel drove 600 thousand people out just between 1947 and 1949. The "security wall" they built deep inside palestinians also resulted in "transfer". Israels efforts to disrupt economic and human development, agriculture and so on, has also indirectly driven palestinians out of the area and in various refugee camps. But transfer in the context I described is a relatively new idea thats gained popularity over the last few years with Israeli citizens and politicians. In any case the point is theres absolutely no guarantee that the Arabs in your poll will even have the option of staying in Jerusalem if theres a peace deal. And according to many many other hostorians, Benny Morris is a revisonist putz. So ...nothing in say that last 50 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 The poll has value because Jeruslaem as a capital of a Palsestian state won't fly if a majority of Arabs would rather stay Israeli.. 35% is not majority. you need to work on your math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 Yes, that is a big part of the problem with the eventual foundation of a Palestinian state. How many well to do, intelligent, capable, Palestinians would actually want to go and live in this state, given the inevitable hardships that it will face, even if Israel left it alone entirely? Even given the choice of Israel, the state that many Palestinians view as their enemy, many seem like they would rather remain as its citizens then give a Palestinian state a shot. And what of the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians who live in prosperous hospitable societies in North America and Europe? Would many of them want to return to the Palestinian state? It seems unlikely. I certainly support and hope for the eventual formation of a sovereign and independent Palestinian state, but it seems it would have a very hard road ahead of it, even putting aside the tensions that such a state would have with Israel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted January 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 35% is not majority. you need to work on your math. Really? how interesting...where did I say that 35% was a majority...but since you trod in it...35% is a majority of those who have decided. You need to work on a lot of things.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 Your post is misleading. The poll seems to be evenly split. One third want to remain Palestinian, one third wants to become Israeli citizens, the other third is undecided. I would say 1/3 constitutes "many." If you don't think so, then you would also have to disagree with this statement: 'Many Jerusalem Palestinians want to remain Palestinian.' Do you think that's a misleading statement? So apparently your answer is to plead the fifth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 So apparently your answer is to plead the fifth? How am I pleading the 5th? By not answering a post/thread in due time? If that is the case, we all do it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 Really? how interesting...where did I say that 35% was a majority...but since you trod in it...35% is a majority of those who have decided. You need to work on a lot of things.... Majority means over 50%, 35% is not a majority. If 35%is a majority, then Harper has always had a majority government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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