Argus Posted January 17, 2011 Report Posted January 17, 2011 I think the correctional officer who decided to be an ass-hole and ignore the waiver granted to Peter Collins should pay the $9500.00. You should try not to read so fast. The waiver is a recent thing. The guard asked him to start standing for the roll call back in 2005. According to the report he hurt his back as a youth in a motorcycle accident. This didn't stop him from becoming a criminal, however, and one suspects he moved around fairly freely. And this might not be a coincidence but what he did was confront the officer who was in a mall sitting eating. He ordered him to stand up, and then shot him. His bad back does not stop him from walking to and from his meals and other places during the day. He's not in a wheelchair. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted January 17, 2011 Report Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) I think it is digusting that you are advocating cruel and unusual punishment as acceptable. I can't think of anything which anyone could do to his cop-killer at any time which would cause me the slightest distress. He should have been hanged back on his conviction. He should still be hanged. Edited January 18, 2011 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Guest American Woman Posted January 17, 2011 Report Posted January 17, 2011 His bad back does not stop him from walking to and from his meals and other places during the day. He's not in a wheelchair. He claims it's the act of rising up and getting into a standing position that's most painful and that it's gotten worse through the years, which this type of pain has a tendency to do over the course of 25+ years. But I still have negative feelings about this case. I don't believe in cruel and unusual punishment, but after reading the case file I don't believe expecting him to rise and stand for the brief amount of time the "stand and be accounted for" takes even remotely falls under that category. I believe there are many people with chronic back pain and arthritis going about their daily lives without any compensation for their pain and suffering, and most likely without much complaint. If the pain of rising to a standing position doesn't prevent him from getting up and doing the things he wants to do, I can't understand how it could prevent him from doing so for the "stand and be accounted for." Quote
eyeball Posted January 17, 2011 Report Posted January 17, 2011 You should try not to read so fast. The waiver is a recent thing. The guard asked him to start standing for the roll call back in 2005. Okay, so an official waiver on paper might be a recent thing but his guards had clearly been waiving the requirement that he stand for years apparently, until some ass-hole with an attitude like your's and PIK's came and started creating trouble for everyone. Have you ever seen the Green Mile or Cider House Rules? Of course you're a government official so you're probably bred to think like a Vogon and the thought of guards taking consideration for convicts into their own hands is abhorrent, unless of course it involves abusing them. According to the report he hurt his back as a youth in a motorcycle accident. This didn't stop him from becoming a criminal, however, and one suspects he moved around fairly freely. And this might not be a coincidence but what he did was confront the officer who was in a mall sitting eating. He ordered him to stand up, and then shot him. Given the propensity for abuse that some officials are clearly capable of, I can't help but wonder what the cop he killed might have done to make Collins want to shoot him. Perhaps it's no coincidence he still has his back up against authority to this day. His bad back does not stop him from walking to and from his meals and other places during the day. He's not in a wheelchair. Lucky for him, I'd hate to think how more vulnerable to abuse he'd be if he was. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Saipan Posted January 17, 2011 Report Posted January 17, 2011 I can't help but wonder what the cop he killed might have done to make Collins want to shoot him. Speeding ticket? Quote
Battletoads Posted January 18, 2011 Report Posted January 18, 2011 If they ignored the waiver its their fault for getting sued. Quote "You can lead a Conservative to knowledge, but you can't make him think."
Bonam Posted January 18, 2011 Report Posted January 18, 2011 Torture is a far worse crime than murder. How so? I'd rather be "tortured" like this man was than murdered, how about you? Quote
M.Dancer Posted January 18, 2011 Report Posted January 18, 2011 I can't help but wonder what the cop he killed might have done to make Collins want to shoot him. Perhaps it's no coincidence he still has his back up against authority to this day. C onstable Utman took a coffee break in a shopping mall café. Without warning a 22 year old male escapee, approached Constable Utman and drew a revolver. He ordered Constable Utman to stand up and fired a shot into the wall above Constable Utman's head. Constable Utman stood up and backed the suspect out of the café while trying to reason with him. Collins continued to point the revolver at Utman while shouting obscenities and finally fired a second shot which struck Constable Utman in the chest. Constable Utman was rushed to hospital but died around 1:30 p.m.The suspect fled the scene but was arrested later in the afternoon. It is believed that the suspect had intended to rob a nearby bank but became enraged with Constable Utman's presence in the mall. On September 19, 1984 the suspect was convicted of First Degree Murder and sentenced to life in prison. Constable Utman was a ten year veteran. Constable Utman was the only member to be killed during the force's 37 year existence until it was amalgamated into the Ottawa-Carleton Regional Police in 1994. Constable Utman was posthumously awarded the Ontario Medal of Police Bravery. http://www.odmp.org/canada/officer/509-constable-david-william-utman Yes you are correct, it is no coincidence....the fellow is trash...and really should be disposed of. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Argus Posted January 18, 2011 Report Posted January 18, 2011 Okay, so an official waiver on paper might be a recent thing but his guards had clearly been waiving the requirement that he stand for years apparently, until some ass-hole with an attitude like your's and PIK's came and started creating trouble for everyone. You mean someone new comes in and does the job as he's been trained to do, as the rules require? Have you ever seen the Green Mile or Cider House Rules? Of course you're a government official so you're probably bred to think like a Vogon and the thought of guards taking consideration for convicts into their own hands is abhorrent, unless of course it involves abusing them. Unlike you, my concept of life doesn't arise from movies, TV shows and comic books. And my empathy, again, unlike yours, and sympathy, again, unlike yours, tends to be reserved for people who aren't murdering vermin. Given the propensity for abuse that some officials are clearly capable of, I can't help but wonder what the cop he killed might have done to make Collins want to shoot him. Perhaps it's no coincidence he still has his back up against authority to this day. I don't think it's really possible for me to convey the degree of utter contempt such a sophomoric attempt at excusing deliberate, cold-blooded murder warrants you without my winding up being suspended here. Suffice to say that ideologues always seem to be indignant when violence is used against one they see as "one of theirs" but their indignation fades to nothing when violence is used against people they disapprove of, in this case a police officer. I'd also be willing to bet that if someone was to put the guard in question into a hospital you'd feel a smug sense of satisfaction at what you believe to be a proper retribution. Your misplaced sympathy for murderers seems to arise out of some sort of pathetic anti-establishment philosophy I thought had largely died in the early seventies. Some people don't need to be "oppressed" in order to resort to violence. Some people are just mean and cruel and thoughtless. And some people are just stupid. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted January 18, 2011 Report Posted January 18, 2011 No it doesn't. There are penalties, but those penalties do not remove their other rights. The judge sets out a sentence - it is unconstitutional to include cruel and unusual punishment in that sentence. Requiring someone stand up on occasion does not even constitute punishment, never mind cruelty. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
eyeball Posted January 18, 2011 Report Posted January 18, 2011 You mean someone new comes in and does the job as he's been trained to do, as the rules require? No someone new comes in with an attitude, no sense of discretion and creates a bunch of problems. Unlike you, my concept of life doesn't arise from movies, TV shows and comic books. And my empathy, again, unlike yours, and sympathy, again, unlike yours, tends to be reserved for people who aren't murdering vermin. Well, there's your problem right there, people aren't vermin you see, they're human beings. I don't think it's really possible for me to convey the degree of utter contempt such a sophomoric attempt at excusing deliberate, cold-blooded murder warrants you without my winding up being suspended here. Please. I'm not excusing anything here, I'm asking a perfectly reasonable question given the never-ending stream of incidences of police abuse making the news these days. Suffice to say that ideologues always seem to be indignant when violence is used against one they see as "one of theirs" but their indignation fades to nothing when violence is used against people they disapprove of, in this case a police officer. I'd also be willing to bet that if someone was to put the guard in question into a hospital you'd feel a smug sense of satisfaction at what you believe to be a proper retribution. What makes me indignant is when ideologues use every opportunity to stoke a mob-like loathing for criminals as part of their never-ending campaign to replace our justice system with a more brutal, violent vengeance system. As I said to PIK you are the one using someone's death to make a point here. Your misplaced sympathy for murderers seems to arise out of some sort of pathetic anti-establishment philosophy I thought had largely died in the early seventies. Your penchant for a more brutal prison system seems to arise out of some sort of Old Testament philosophy that should have died out centuries ago. Some people don't need to be "oppressed" in order to resort to violence. Some people are just mean and cruel and thoughtless.And some people are just stupid. Justice systems don't need to be oppressive or violent in order to be just. Only a really stupid person would think otherwise. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
eyeball Posted January 18, 2011 Report Posted January 18, 2011 Requiring someone stand up on occasion does not even constitute punishment, never mind cruelty. It does if you know it causes them pain. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Saipan Posted January 18, 2011 Report Posted January 18, 2011 Well, there's your problem right there, people aren't vermin you see, they're human beings. He was talking about criminals. Not regular people. Quote
bloodyminded Posted January 18, 2011 Report Posted January 18, 2011 He was talking about criminals. Not regular people. They're still human beings. Astonishing, no? Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Saipan Posted January 18, 2011 Report Posted January 18, 2011 They're still human beings. Astonishing, no? Not at all. Liberals are traditional apologists for criminals. On the other hand hunters, shooting competitors and farmers are often seen as criminals by them. Quote
bloodyminded Posted January 18, 2011 Report Posted January 18, 2011 Not at all. Liberals are traditional apologists for criminals. You don't enjoy reflection and discussion much, do you? Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Guest American Woman Posted January 18, 2011 Report Posted January 18, 2011 (edited) Given the propensity for abuse that some officials are clearly capable of, I can't help but wonder what the cop he killed might have done to make Collins want to shoot him. I don't think it's really possible for me to convey the degree of utter contempt such a sophomoric attempt at excusing deliberate, cold-blooded murder warrants you without my winding up being suspended here. You and I rarely agree on anything, but on this I couldn't agree more. I think that has to be among the most disgusting remarks ever made on this forum. An innocent man is sitting drinking a cup of coffee, an escaped inmate comes up, taunts him, and shoots him in cold blood, and evidently it's his fault for making the murderer want to kill him. Absolutely disgusting. Edited January 18, 2011 by American Woman Quote
Argus Posted January 20, 2011 Report Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) They're still human beings. Astonishing, no? How human is Paul Bernardo or Clifford Olsen or William Russel? If you act in an inhumane fashion I question just how human you are. Edited January 20, 2011 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
eyeball Posted January 20, 2011 Report Posted January 20, 2011 You and I rarely agree on anything, but on this I couldn't agree more. I think that has to be among the most disgusting remarks ever made on this forum. An innocent man is sitting drinking a cup of coffee, an escaped inmate comes up, taunts him, and shoots him in cold blood, and evidently it's his fault for making the murderer want to kill him. Absolutely disgusting. Get a grip ya twit, I said 'I can't help but wonder' not 'it's his fault'. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
eyeball Posted January 20, 2011 Report Posted January 20, 2011 How human is Paul Bernardo or Clifford Olsen or William Russel? If you act in an inhumane fashion I question just how human you are. That isn't what Jesus would do. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Guest TrueMetis Posted January 20, 2011 Report Posted January 20, 2011 That isn't what Jesus would do. Depends when Jesus was young he used to blow shite up with his mind. Quote
Guest American Woman Posted January 20, 2011 Report Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) Get a grip ya twit, I said 'I can't help but wonder' not 'it's his fault'. Eyeball: Where did you get that black eye, son? Son: I was sitting eating lunch and someone came up and slugged me. Eyeball: I can't help but wonder what you might have done to make him want to slug you. Son: What? Do you think it was my fault? Eyeball: Get a grip ya twit. I didn't say it was your fault. Edited January 20, 2011 by American Woman Quote
eyeball Posted January 20, 2011 Report Posted January 20, 2011 Consider the abundance of incidents of police abuse, not to mention some of the bloodthirsty rhetoric coming from the crack-down and get-cruel crowd around here these days. Utman's death is being glorified and exploited by people who are disgusted with our country's civilized humane treatment of prisoners and criminals, for the purpose of promoting the idea that our justice system should be converted into a vengeance system. The confluence of this backdrop, the thread's context, and the potential for irony if it turned out that Argus' example might have done something to provoke Collins, converted the fleeting possibility into an inevitable question. Such puzzled disgust coming from the queen of inquisitiveness into the infinitude of possibilities and nuance seems...a little wierd actually. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.