Shwa Posted January 5, 2011 Report Posted January 5, 2011 Advertising is part of the information system, and it works well, but the balancing part of the information system doesn't seem to work as well in some cases. This is where it gets tricky. I would make the advertisers responsible for their ads, but by and large, there is public pressure to modify snacks and fast food (less sodium, less trans fat, etc.) and the manufacturers are being responsible to a degree. After that, are we going to start removing freedoms from people to make them comply with an ideal? Now, we have something called MADD which has used societal shame to reduce drunk driving, and balances out the implicit messages that alcohol is risk free. That works. What should we do about obesity then ? Perhaps MADD has done their bit, but locally there have been an increase in drunk driving charges and people still get maimed and killed by drunk drivers. Awareness is one thing - MADD does very well - but compliance is another. Are there good reasons to force people to eat and exercise according to Health Canada ideals? I am not talking about awareness campaigns like the 60 yr old Swede ads when I was a kid, but actually forcing people with laws and restrictions. I see all kinds of information about obesity and health in Canada and perhaps that is the crux of the problem - TOO much information... Quote
Shwa Posted January 5, 2011 Report Posted January 5, 2011 (edited) Orphanages to hold ... what percentage of kids ? 26 % according to this. Not going to happen. Orphanages? Why not ghettos or "camps?" Then we can starve them because, well, they need to lose fat anyways. We'll save money on our taxes. Foucault had some interesting takes on the development of the mental institution in Western society. At one time, the crazy people were jesters and amusing, making up stories, talking to themselves, acting bizarre. But they were among us. Then once leprosy was more or less cured, they had to fill all those institutions. So off went the nutcases, those scary dangerous crazy people, talking to themselves, plotting and planning. One can't help think the jolly old fat person is next on this agenda for the curation of what ails society. I think once Islam becomes docile, attention will be turned the the obese, the chubby, the plump. You know what happens next: Run, Uter, Run! Ruuuuun!!! Edited January 5, 2011 by Shwa Quote
Michael Hardner Posted January 5, 2011 Report Posted January 5, 2011 This is where it gets tricky. I would make the advertisers responsible for their ads, but by and large, there is public pressure to modify snacks and fast food (less sodium, less trans fat, etc.) and the manufacturers are being responsible to a degree. After that, are we going to start removing freedoms from people to make them comply with an ideal? We've done it before. I'm not "free" to smoke weed, buy automatic weapons, drink and drive, or buy scat porn. I would love to make a joke about Morris here, but I will refrain... Perhaps MADD has done their bit, but locally there have been an increase in drunk driving charges and people still get maimed and killed by drunk drivers. Awareness is one thing - MADD does very well - but compliance is another. They have had overwhelming success, but not 100% - which is pretty much impossible. Are there good reasons to force people to eat and exercise according to Health Canada ideals? I am not talking about awareness campaigns like the 60 yr old Swede ads when I was a kid, but actually forcing people with laws and restrictions. I don't know. You brought it up. I am interested in information, so that's the tack I took. I see all kinds of information about obesity and health in Canada and perhaps that is the crux of the problem - TOO much information... Maybe too much information available to the broad mass of people, and not enough targeted at individual information consumption habits. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
M.Dancer Posted January 5, 2011 Report Posted January 5, 2011 I'm not "free" to buy scat porn. Sure you are. At Burningman, it may even be performance art Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Michael Hardner Posted January 5, 2011 Report Posted January 5, 2011 Sure you are. At Burningman, it may even be performance art Free exchange of money is forbidden at BurningMan. The idea is to create a decommodified society. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
M.Dancer Posted January 5, 2011 Report Posted January 5, 2011 (edited) Free exchange of money is forbidden at BurningMan. The idea is to create a decommodified society. I din't suggest you could buy it at burningman.....mind you, after you pay your admission, everything you do there, incluidng the creation of a decommodified society, is already paid for...except ice of course, which is exchanged for money... Edited January 5, 2011 by M.Dancer Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Shwa Posted January 5, 2011 Report Posted January 5, 2011 (edited) We've done it before. I'm not "free" to smoke weed, buy automatic weapons, drink and drive, or buy scat porn. I would love to make a joke about Morris here, but I will refrain... I believe smoking pot is legal. It the possession where they get you. And yeah, I understand your point, but we are free to smoke cigarettes, drink alcohol and watch scat porn - if you can get it. Regulating previously enjoyed food, tricky. They have had overwhelming success, but not 100% - which is pretty much impossible. How do you qualify "overwhelming success" for MADD? I still see DUI deaths and injuries, has their been a significant drop? Of course, if there is an quality information system showing you that MADD is overwhelmingly successful, do share. I don't know. You brought it up. I am interested in information, so that's the tack I took. Fair enough. Is there information to force people to eat and exercise according to Health Canada ideals? I haven't seen it yet have you? Maybe too much information available to the broad mass of people, and not enough targeted at individual information consumption habits. Oh no, I was referring to obese, overweight, plump and chubby folks. The sheer amount of information accumulated and being added to at an exponential rate today, as I write this - targeted towards those channels - health, diet, exercise, special food, opinion, studies, research, specialty channels, radio programs, etc., etc is astounding. Health Canada's ideals have to compete with that. Edited January 5, 2011 by Shwa Quote
Michael Hardner Posted January 5, 2011 Report Posted January 5, 2011 I din't suggest you could buy it at burningman.....mind you, after you pay your admission, everything you do there, incluidng the creation of a decommodified society, is already paid for...except ice of course, which is exchanged for money... Well Googled ! Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted January 5, 2011 Report Posted January 5, 2011 How do you qualify "overwhelming success" for MADD? I still see DUI deaths and injuries, has their been a significant drop? Of course, if there is an quality information system showing you that MADD is overwhelmingly successful, do share. I would say that societal awareness of the problem has led to a significant reduction in DUI. Wouldn't you ? I came jump on Google and search it out if you disagree, but I would think the success of a MADD isn't up for debate. Fair enough. Is there information to force people to eat and exercise according to Health Canada ideals? I haven't seen it yet have you? What kind of information forces you to do anything ? Even Blofeld's digital clock countdown on bombs is information only - Bond can choose to ignore it if he thinks the threat is exagerrated. Oh no, I was referring to obese, overweight, plump and chubby folks. The sheer amount of information accumulated and being added to at an exponential rate today, as I write this - targeted towards those channels - health, diet, exercise, special food, opinion, studies, research, specialty channels, radio programs, etc., etc is astounding. Health Canada's ideals have to compete with that. And yet, they do nothing. Maybe that's because they just turn the channel ? Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
William Ashley Posted January 5, 2011 Author Report Posted January 5, 2011 (edited) http://www.participaction.com/en-us/Home.aspx?lang=en-us I'd do it that for every BMI point you are over add 10 minutes to your required fitness per day. For example if 25 bmi is your upper limit for "average" if you are 26 you do 70 minutes if you are 27 you do 80 minutes if you are 28 you do 90 minutes if you are 29 BMI you do 100 minutes if you are 30 bmi you do 110 minutes if you are 31 you do 120 if you are higher god help you. This is meant to be physical activity - not boot camp. It doesn't mean high stress activity every day it just means you are active every day. Also not all activity need be in school.. kids should be active in the other 6 or so hours in their day outside of school. This might be playing with friends or family or taking part in extra curricular sports. 6 hours is still a lot of time to get in 30 minutes of physical activity. It is very important for teens, very very important. You look around the average highschool and it is dismal in terms of fitness of youth. They meet "basics, but 5 kids out of 30 ain't good enough. I'm not the type of person to force change in this respect; however, it is unfortunate that Canadians arn't more health minded, and parents can't be expected to do this some are just downright abusive of their childrens health due to customs. Letting them get fat and lazy, it is child abuse. I can't believe the conservative government is supporting that type of abusive behaviour. Edited January 5, 2011 by William Ashley Quote I was here.
Shwa Posted January 5, 2011 Report Posted January 5, 2011 I would say that societal awareness of the problem has led to a significant reduction in DUI.Wouldn't you ? I came jump on Google and search it out if you disagree, but I would think the success of a MADD isn't up for debate. I suppose it depends on what you consider significant: (I did jump on Google for a gander since you got me curious dammit!) Is the problem of drinking and driving getting worse or better in Canada?Over the period 1990-2005, the percentage of fatally injured drivers who had been drinking prior to a collision generally declined from a peak of 48% in 1991-92 to a low of about 33% in 1999. It increased slightly to about 36% in 2005, the most recent year for which official statistics are available. With respect to collisions resulting in serious injuries, it is estimated that about 16% of drivers were in serious injury collisions that involved alcohol in 2005, compared to 21% in 1995. The Drunk Driving Madness Do you see this as "overwhemling success?" Certainly MADD is part of the equation, but not all of it and there is still a significant amount of death and mayhem from DUI. What kind of information forces you to do anything ? Even Blofeld's digital clock countdown on bombs is information only - Bond can choose to ignore it if he thinks the threat is exagerrated. And yet, they do nothing. Maybe that's because they just turn the channel? Getting the information you have cancer generally is highly motivating. Yet morbidly obese people don't seem to get the same message, even though it is out there in as many forms as we can imagine. So maybe it is the information itself that is the problem. What do you suggest? Quote
guyser Posted January 5, 2011 Report Posted January 5, 2011 Do you see this as "overwhemling success?" MADD is a royal pain in the ass and while successful in the early years they have become overbearing PITA mothers. Half the funds rec'd or riased pay salaries and or fees . Not what anynone would call a good charity. It is listed as a "D" charity (thats pretty bad) They are also behind the dumb ass 0,05 law we have in Ontario. MADD wouldnt get a damn nickle from me. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted January 5, 2011 Report Posted January 5, 2011 Do you see this as "overwhemling success?" Certainly MADD is part of the equation, but not all of it and there is still a significant amount of death and mayhem from DUI. That's pretty good, but you should go from earlier since MADD started in the early 1980s. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Shwa Posted January 5, 2011 Report Posted January 5, 2011 That's pretty good, but you should go from earlier since MADD started in the early 1980s. I think the MADD site in Canada says they started in 1990... Quote
guyser Posted January 5, 2011 Report Posted January 5, 2011 I'd do it that for every BMI point you are over add 10 minutes to your required fitness per day. BMI is a poor choice for the realizationof health. It makes no discernment for weight from fat or muscle and should not be used. Try a fat measuring device using a dunk tank (cant recall the name) BMI , some people who are obese.....Tom Brady, Kobe Bryant , George Clooney , Lebron James, Michael Jordan. I can only wish I was obese like them. According to them,my 28BMI puts me at risk. Ok......uh nope. Quote
guyser Posted January 5, 2011 Report Posted January 5, 2011 That's pretty good, but you should go from earlier since MADD started in the early 1980s. Started in 1980 after the womans 13 yr old daughter was killed by a drunk driver (a repeat offender no less) Quote
Michael Hardner Posted January 5, 2011 Report Posted January 5, 2011 Started in 1980 after the womans 13 yr old daughter was killed by a drunk driver (a repeat offender no less) The daughter or the driver ? Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
guyser Posted January 5, 2011 Report Posted January 5, 2011 The daughter or the driver ? The daughter. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted January 5, 2011 Report Posted January 5, 2011 (edited) edited Edited January 5, 2011 by Michael Hardner Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Wild Bill Posted January 5, 2011 Report Posted January 5, 2011 (edited) That's pretty good, but you should go from earlier since MADD started in the early 1980s. I wouldn't mind seeing some stats! MADD is a political animal formed around a motherhood issue, like the Liberal gun registry after Marc Lepine's whacko murders in Quebec. Motherhood issues tend to have a very poor record of actually addressing a problem, in real and concrete ways and numbers. Politicians tend to use them to garner votes. Addressing a problem in a 'real world ' way is considered secondary at best. A friend of mine got busted and had to attend one of those education sessions. He said it was a total joke! He had a friend drive him to the particular location, where a bored woman fed a tape into a VCR for them to view. They were treated to lots of graphic clips of people smashed up and killed by drunks and then they were free to go home. He said what struck him was that several of the other attendees drove themselves to the viewing! One of them smelled of booze and was clearly not sober. No one said or bothered to do a thing. Everyone just went through the motions. Another anecdote I know, but typical of how the 'system' tends to operate in reality. If someone has made the claim that MADD has had great success then it is up to them to defend the point. Clearly, the only real measure of success is in a reduction of the percentage of accidents caused by intoxicated drivers, although that stat is skewed a little bit. If you are impaired you are considered at fault, yet often the other driver may have actually caused the mishap. Before the inevitable ad hominem accusation comes my way, my total alcohol intake is about a 6 pack of beer and a couple of shots of expensive Scotch, PER YEAR! Edited January 5, 2011 by Wild Bill Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
William Ashley Posted January 5, 2011 Author Report Posted January 5, 2011 BMI is a poor choice for the realizationof health. It makes no discernment for weight from fat or muscle and should not be used. Try a fat measuring device using a dunk tank (cant recall the name) BMI , some people who are obese.....Tom Brady, Kobe Bryant , George Clooney , Lebron James, Michael Jordan. I can only wish I was obese like them. According to them,my 28BMI puts me at risk. Ok......uh nope. How are you going to keep that muscle on? Quote I was here.
guyser Posted January 5, 2011 Report Posted January 5, 2011 How are you going to keep that muscle on? Triathlons. Quote
William Ashley Posted January 5, 2011 Author Report Posted January 5, 2011 (edited) Triathlons. What is your weekly training routine? here is a site on others http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=376 http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=441 you think you got what it takes - to be the complete athelete? That right above is what the government should be putting out as a "public policy" for health that Canadians should aspire to. Clearly kids don't start as ironmen, but there should be ramp on health expectations that the government should be promoting. And 20 minutes a day doesn't cut muster. They could introduce ratings like "Pathetic" or hey its better than nothing "Unhealthy" or you could do more "Barely healthy" - some more work required "Healthy" - you may live another day "Very healthy" - try using it "athletic" - good stuff "olmypic" - go for the gold etc.. not just throw out a 20 minute bisquit, that is just bad. Edited January 5, 2011 by William Ashley Quote I was here.
guyser Posted January 5, 2011 Report Posted January 5, 2011 (edited) What is your weekly training routine? Right now? About zilch. Some runs get completed but nothing dramatic until about March, then they get ratcheted up and biking starts in May or June, and swims get started the moment my nuts dont freeze in the lake. The diving in part hurts too much right now. Edited January 5, 2011 by guyser Quote
PIK Posted January 5, 2011 Report Posted January 5, 2011 I wouldn't mind seeing some stats! MADD is a political animal formed around a motherhood issue, like the Liberal gun registry after Marc Lepine's whacko murders in Quebec. Motherhood issues tend to have a very poor record of actually addressing a problem, in real and concrete ways and numbers. Politicians tend to use them to garner votes. Addressing a problem in a 'real world ' way is considered secondary at best. A friend of mine got busted and had to attend one of those education sessions. He said it was a total joke! He had a friend drive him to the particular location, where a bored woman fed a tape into a VCR for them to view. They were treated to lots of graphic clips of people smashed up and killed by drunks and then they were free to go home. He said what struck him was that several of the other attendees drove themselves to the viewing! One of them smelled of booze and was clearly not sober. No one said or bothered to do a thing. Everyone just went through the motions. Another anecdote I know, but typical of how the 'system' tends to operate in reality. If someone has made the claim that MADD has had great success then it is up to them to defend the point. Clearly, the only real measure of success is in a reduction of the percentage of accidents caused by intoxicated drivers, although that stat is skewed a little bit. If you are impaired you are considered at fault, yet often the other driver may have actually caused the mishap. Before the inevitable ad hominem accusation comes my way, my total alcohol intake is about a 6 pack of beer and a couple of shots of expensive Scotch, PER YEAR! I think MADD is fudging the books, listening to them ,we should see bodies lying all over the place. But it seems poor william needs the govermnet to lead him around by the hand and tell him how to live, must be terrible being like that. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
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