London Students Riot

[Sir Bandelot]

There have been violent scenes as tens of thousands of people protested against plans to treble tuition fees and cut university funding in England.

The level of anger and the swiftness of the violence seemed to have caught everyone by surprise.

Demonstrators stormed a building in Westminster housing the Conservative Party headquarters, smashed windows and got on to the roof.

Outside, a crowd of thousands surged as placards and banners were set on fire and missiles were thrown.

As demonstrators crowded around the building, some masked and hooded, the mood began to turn ugly. Missiles began flying towards the large plate glass windows, with only a thin line of police, with metal truncheons raised, guarding the building's entrance. Outnumbered and overwhelmed, they were slowly but relentlessly hemmed against the front of the building. Once inside the building, demonstrators wearing police hats danced on tables. A protester ripped a security camera from the ceiling and danced in triumph, slogans were spray-painted on walls.

As protesters surged, a succession of windows were smashed and then demonstrators flooded into the building entrance. Security guards scattered and the handful of police inside were completely overrun. A few yards away, in surreal calm, guests carried on eating in the adjacent Pizza Express.

At one point, a fire extinguisher was reported to have been thrown from the roof.

London Mayor Boris Johnson said: "I am appalled that a small minority have today shamefully abused their right to protest.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11726822

Politicians are lying, and the students know the truth. They gave away the peoples money to banks, corporations and the big oil companies. Now is the time for all people to finally say "enough". If the system will not reform itself through peaceful means, it will be forcibly "reformed".

[Michael Hardner]

Politicians are lying, and the students know the truth. They gave away the peoples money to banks, corporations and the big oil companies. Now is the time for all people to finally say "enough". If the system will not reform itself through peaceful means, it will be forcibly "reformed".

Mass protest, and even violent protest does get attention, and it does work on a certain level. That's too bad, though, because it can be used by people to circumvent dialogue.

From my perspective, violence usually comes out of either severe hardship, or identity issues. And it's sometimes hard to tell which is happening, since everybody has identity issues.

[GostHacked]

This is what week 2 or 3 of these protests?

And the thing is, this will be happening all over the place soon. It's already happening in other parts of the EU. I think Italy had riots because of high tuition fees.

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/world_us/20101201_Italian_students_riot_over_budget_cuts.html

Yup. Who's next?

[Sir Bandelot]

Protesters Attack Royals

LONDON — Angry protesters in London have attacked a car containing Prince Charles, the heir to the British throne, and his wife Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall.

An Associated Press photographer saw demonstrators kick the car in Regent Street, in the heart of London's shopping district. Protesters cracked a window and hit the Rolls Royce with paint, the BBC reported. The car then drove off.

The fun never stops. But despite all this, the parliament went ahead and voted to allow the tuition fees to go up anyway, by 300%. That's demockracy in action for ya.

Now this might start getting realy good. Better make some popcorn

[Bonam]

Universities need money to run. Tuition at UBC went up about 250% over the 5 year period that I was there, when the Liberals unfroze the tuition rates that had been frozen under the NDP government for years. Can't say I liked paying high tuition of course, but there weren't really any better options.

Now of course I'm in the states where tuition is another 3 times higher. Let me tell you, more money certainly buys better facilities and better profs.

[GostHacked]

Universities need money to run. Tuition at UBC went up about 250% over the 5 year period that I was there, when the Liberals unfroze the tuition rates that had been frozen under the NDP government for years. Can't say I liked paying high tuition of course, but there weren't really any better options.

Now of course I'm in the states where tuition is another 3 times higher. Let me tell you, more money certainly buys better facilities and better profs.

But does it get you a better education?

[bush_cheney2004]

But does it get you a better education?

Depends on what you want to learn. Ultimately, the best education is determined by the student.

[GostHacked]

Depends on what you want to learn. Ultimately, the best education is determined by the student.

Agreed. I paid a crapload for my IT courses. If I had not applied myself, then I would not have graduated with Honours in one (just missed the mark on the other)... You do get out of it what you put into it. Which tells me that people who are not interested in a certain field and passionate about it, they are wasting their money and life.

But here is the other thing. It keeps the poor out of getting any kind of higher education when the tuition fees are that high. Hell even most of the middle class can't afford it. Want to be a doctor? 10 years of school and paying off those loans another decade after. And that is if you get a job in the field you study for.

I was lucky I guess. Went back to school in 2000, and finally paid off my loans back in January. It was brutal, I was not living very well in order to pay off the loans. However this year has been great. So eventually it pays off... if you have the motivation.

But if we want a more educated society, then tuition fees need to come down a lot. Or you are stuck flipping burgers for the rest of your life.

[Shakeyhands]

But if we want a more educated society, then tuition fees need to come down a lot. Or you are stuck flipping burgers for the rest of your life.

See I find that a little funny. Why do most roles/jobs require a degree anyway? Yes, there are the obvious ones but come on...

[bush_cheney2004]

...But if we want a more educated society, then tuition fees need to come down a lot. Or you are stuck flipping burgers for the rest of your life.

I disagree with your basic premise...an educated society means a lot of different things. We need people to repair transmissions too. The present system recognizes gifted students and affords them financial assistance, scholarships, and other opportunities. Those who are not fortunate enough to have access to such resources are still part of any decision that results in "flipping burgers" for the rest of their lives.

[GostHacked]

See I find that a little funny. Why do most roles/jobs require a degree anyway? Yes, there are the obvious ones but come on...

Why is it funny? As tuition gets higher, only the privileged will be able to afford an education. So less and less people can afford to get their degree.

I could have gotten this job without my degree, but the degree did make it easier. I've been playing with the computers for quite some time now. I was told I'd need the certificates to get a job (A+. net+, Cisco , and MS certs.. i have none of them) .... I have less qualifications (degree or certs) that a tech over at Futureshop, and yet I can walk circles around the majority of them. And I get paid more, and have much more responsibilities. Figure that one out.

Also in comparison by average score in high school overall hovered around the 60% mark. But in for my IT courses, graduated one with Honours, and the other just missed it..... If you consider high school as important as stepping stone for a higher education, and doing well in highschool determines your future. I seem to be an anomaly. I hated high school, it was not challenging enough or interesting enough. I knew I could do it all and get high grades, but the way it was set up and presented made me bored to death.

But I digress. Tuition needs to be affordable and quality in the education needs to be there as well. We are all different and have different goals and aspirations, and the way the education system is set up for the most part prevents many of us from meeting our full potential.

Here we are simply taking about university fees, never mind the ever increasing cost of living that students need to endure and pay for as well as the rising cost of education. Double whammy.

http://hubpages.com/hub/Comparison-of-cost-of-higher-education-around-the-world

Studying at university is an expensive investment. Tuition fees have a disincentive effect on the poor and middle-income students. There has been a general trend towards marked increases in tuition in recent years, even in countries where tuition fees have generally been much lower than average. For example, Canada has seen its tuition fees more than double in the last ten years.

Tuition fees can vary between courses, institutions, and whether the students are resident or international. This hub compares tuition costs of full time undergraduate programmes in America (Canada, United States), Europe (UK, Ireland, France, Germany, the Netherlands), and Australia.

[GostHacked]

I disagree with your basic premise...an educated society means a lot of different things. We need people to repair transmissions too. The present system recognizes gifted students and affords them financial assistance, scholarships, and other opportunities. Those who are not fortunate enough to have access to such resources are still part of any decision that results in "flipping burgers" for the rest of their lives.

And people working on cars need all sorts of education and certificates as well that proves they are qualified to work on cars and transmissions. You have to be an accredited tech in an accredited facility, you need an education and qualifications. That seems to be mandatory and determined by the transportation departments in your state/province/country. For things like trades, you need an education as well it seems.

If you are happy with your job and the money you are making then it's all good and who am I to say otherwise. But for those who want a little more out of life have to buy into it.

[bush_cheney2004]

And people working on cars need all sorts of education and certificates as well that proves they are qualified to work on cars and transmissions. You have to be an accredited tech....

But it does not cost $100,000 in student loans. Getting the certs is quite affordable.

If you are happy with your job and the money you are making then it's all good and who am I to say otherwise. But for those who want a little more out of life have to buy into it.

Then please spend away...including the debt load. Just don't expect "society" to always foot the bill.

[GostHacked]

But it does not cost $100,000 in student loans. Getting the certs is quite affordable.

Ahh so then you agree that affordable education is key.

[bush_cheney2004]

Ahh so then you agree that affordable education is key.

No, because education is already affordable. Become a doctor on your own dime if you want.

[GostHacked]

No, because education is already affordable.

You are contradicting yourself.

Become a doctor on your own dime if you want.

They already are.

[bush_cheney2004]

You are contradicting yourself.

No, I am contradicting your position.

They already are.

So what's the problem? Who forced you to take on the debt load?

Edited December 10, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[Bonam]

But here is the other thing. It keeps the poor out of getting any kind of higher education when the tuition fees are that high. Hell even most of the middle class can't afford it. Want to be a doctor? 10 years of school and paying off those loans another decade after. And that is if you get a job in the field you study for.

Complete lie. The poor do not pay tuition, they get financial aid. The middle class get student loans. Oh, and those that are smart and put in effort get scholarships. So no, the poor are not prevented from getting a higher education.

[GostHacked]

Complete lie. The poor do not pay tuition, they get financial aid. The middle class get student loans. Oh, and those that are smart and put in effort get scholarships. So no, the poor are not prevented from getting a higher education.

I qualified for student loans, and they are paid back in full with interest. So I have paid for my education. And all of us are paying for the education for the poor through our taxes. Where do you think the financial aid comes from?

[bush_cheney2004]

...And all of us are paying for the education for the poor through our taxes. Where do you think the financial aid comes from?

So you admit that there are options for the "poor"? They do have access to education after all.

[GostHacked]

So you admit that there are options for the "poor"? They do have access to education after all.

Because the collective is paying for it. You are paying for their education. If we were all forced to pay upfront on our own, there would be only a select few who would be able to afford it. Hence the reason why higher tuition fees will be counter productive.

[bush_cheney2004]

Because the collective is paying for it. You are paying for their education. If we were all forced to pay upfront on our own, there would be only a select few who would be able to afford it. Hence the reason why higher tuition fees will be counter productive.

That's a different discussion entirely. Those who qualify for aid and/or loans do have access to education...the "poor" are not being shut out.

[Bonam]

Because the collective is paying for it. You are paying for their education. If we were all forced to pay upfront on our own, there would be only a select few who would be able to afford it. Hence the reason why higher tuition fees will be counter productive.

Counter-productive... really? Why don't you compare the tuition fees of schools like Harvard and MIT to some Canadian schools. They are about 10 times higher, and, incidentally, those schools offer education unparalleled anywhere in Canada.

[GostHacked]

Counter-productive... really? Why don't you compare the tuition fees of schools like Harvard and MIT to some Canadian schools. They are about 10 times higher, and, incidentally, those schools offer education unparalleled anywhere in Canada.

And completely unaffordable for someone like me. Not only that my high school grades would disqualify me from even applying to those schools.

[bush_cheney2004]

And completely unaffordable for someone like me. Not only that my high school grades would disqualify me from even applying to those schools.

Right, and since you volunteered the issue of merit, it should not go without further comment. Students in high school who excel at academics will have better opportunity and access to education choices. Such was the case for me, when many of my classmates were more interested in mastering sex and drugs instead of differential equations!