Harper's KGB

[BigGunner]

WTF?

"It's a matter of having a super agency to co-ordinate efforts and information from each of these groups," Outrement candidate Marc Rousseau told Radio-Canada. "We must harmonize our policies with those of the Americans."

Read the article here

If Harper likes America so much, then he should leave Canada. :angry:

[Goldie]

This is always my favourite agrument.

If Harper likes America so much, then he should leave Canada.

God forbid two nations that share the same land mass should have a similiar plan to deal with security.

How terrible that the number one and number five nations on an enemies hit list should work together to defeat them.

Some would like Canada to emulate China, France , Russia, you know, the losers of world history. Those who do should leave Canada because this nation does not deserve to shift to the likes of those countries.

[takeanumber]

I suppose then we should detain people without charge.

And then humiliate them with repeated strip searches.

deprive them of sleep for 48 hours.

All with no charge and no lawyer.

Oh yah, that's a great.

And then, after we're done, we can send them to a prison and attack them with dogs, and sodomize them with lightbulbs, and hey, even smother them with shit.

That will be the way Canada works in a country run by Stephen Harper, with even the most fundamental rights and freedoms in the Charter violated.

[BigGunner]

This is always my favourite agrument.

If Harper likes America so much, then he should leave Canada.

God forbid two nations that share the same land mass should have a similiar plan to deal with security.

How terrible that the number one and number five nations on an enemies hit list should work together to defeat them.

Some would like Canada to emulate China, France , Russia, you know, the losers of world history. Those who do should leave Canada because this nation does not deserve to shift to the likes of those countries.

Did it ever occur to you that America's national security problem is directly related to their foreign policy? If Harper is elected, then we will probably need our very own version of the KGB since Harper would be so eager to jump on the Empire-building bandwagon of George Bush.

[idealisttotheend]

This reminds me of the arguments over the Iraq war. Rarely do the Cons argue that American policies/institutions are better. Instead they simply argue that we ought to follow American policies for the sake of following American policies. Integrate for the sake of integration not to find the best possible solution or our own way.

Is this cultural treason or just a complete lack of imagination of the part of the Cons?

[Argus]

WTF?

"It's a matter of having a super agency to co-ordinate efforts and information from each of these groups," Outrement candidate Marc Rousseau told Radio-Canada. "We must harmonize our policies with those of the Americans."

Read the article here

If Harper likes America so much, then he should leave Canada. :angry:

Anti-American bigots always turn their brains off whenever anyone mentions cooperation with them. :angry:

We have an enormous border with them and many concerns in common. There's nothing wrong with cooperating on security matters. We both have the same enemies, whether you like it or not.

[Argus]

I suppose then we should detain people without charge.

We already do.

And then humiliate them with repeated strip searches.

We do that too.

deprive them of sleep for 48 hours.

All with no charge and no lawyer.

Perhaps we could just settle for having our soldiers beat them to death as they did in Somalia.

That will be the way Canada works in a country run by Stephen Harper, with even the most fundamental rights and freedoms in the Charter violated.

The "fundamental freedoms" of the Charter are enjoyed to a greater degree by American citizens than by us. Yes, that's right. There remains more freedom in the US than in Canada, where governments have more control over the lives of citizens and businesses, tighter restrictions on freedom of speech and expression, and more ability to ban or prohibit anything the government doesn't like.

I cannot imagine a peaceful gathering of protestors in the US getting the same treatment as the APEC protestors got in Canada without there being hell to pay. American police would not arrest people for holding up palms painted red, or trying to hold up 8 x11 sheets of papers on them. And if they did they'd be punished.

[Argus]

This reminds me of the arguments over the Iraq war.  Rarely do the Cons argue that American policies/institutions are better.  Instead they simply argue that we ought to follow American policies for the sake of following American policies.  ?

As opposed to you anti-Americans who want to go against American policies for the sake of going against American policies?

None of you have mentioned a single reason why cooperation with the Americans so distresses you. Instead you've simply howled in horror at the thought of cooperating with the Americans.

Since logic and reason do not seem to enter into your opposition I see no need to employ them to counter your emotional outbursts.

[Bionic Antboy]

Is this cultural treason or just a complete lack of imagination of the part of the Cons?

I think it's a little of column A and a little of column B.

Another comment I remember Harper mentioning a week or so ago was that he liked the whole "3 strikes" law that the States adopted.

Said law has led to the long term incarceration (25 to life) of people who have been convicted of nothing more than possession of a "personal amount" of marijuana, which strikes me as not only a HUGE waste of taxpayer's dollars, but injust as well.

[BigGunner]

This reminds me of the arguments over the Iraq war.  Rarely do the Cons argue that American policies/institutions are better.  Instead they simply argue that we ought to follow American policies for the sake of following American policies.  ?

As opposed to you anti-Americans who want to go against American policies for the sake of going against American policies?

None of you have mentioned a single reason why cooperation with the Americans so distresses you. Instead you've simply howled in horror at the thought of cooperating with the Americans.

Since logic and reason do not seem to enter into your opposition I see no need to employ them to counter your emotional outbursts.

Why is that any time a person criticises an American policy, they are accused of Anti-Americanism?

I am not anti-American, but I am very pro-Canadian.

Being pro-Canadian means that I want my nation to have an independent foreign policy. It means that my country wants to protect the environment, treat all citizens with equality and dignity, house the homeless and treat the sick.

I could care less about America's policies, but when Spain followed them, they got a commuter train destroyed in Madrid's rush hour.

If we should follow another nations foreign policy, what mass transit system in what major Canadian city would you like to see destroyed by a terrorist attack?

Is this somehow acceptable? Or...should Canada follow her own path and make friends around the world and keep out of the crosshairs of those who cause trouble for the sake of causing trouble?

[Argus]

Another comment I remember Harper mentioning a week or so ago was that he liked the whole "3 strikes" law that the States adopted.

I like that law too, though not without some major changes. I like it for violent offenders. And I like it for incouragables who do nothing but commit crimes. I'm not into baseball, though, so three strikes is a bit much for non-violent offenses.

But the fact remains there are thousands of people on our streets with dozens of convictions apiece for mugging, purse snatching, drug offenses, burglary, theft, assault and the like. I'd like to see those people locked away.

[Argus]

As opposed to you anti-Americans who want to go against American policies for the sake of going against American policies?

None of you have mentioned a single reason why cooperation with the Americans so distresses you. Instead you've simply howled in horror at the thought of cooperating with the Americans.

Why is that any time a person criticises an American policy, they are accused of Anti-Americanism?

They aren't. I can argue against all sorts of American policies, but I'd do so with reasons and logic, not simply out of emotional resentment, as your post appears to be.

Being pro-Canadian means that I want my nation to have an independent foreign policy.

I would love to have Canada have *A* foreign policy. Do you want to know what Canada's foreign policy is? Go to the poorest area of town and throw some toonies on the sidewalk. See the poor people scrabbling on their hands and knees? Those are people who exemplify Canadian foreign policy at its best. Namely, we love you to bits if you have money, if you want to buy something from us. We'll slobber at your feet and hug you to our breast no matter how vicious, brutal or murderous you are. We'll even invite you over, and if any of our dirty, grubby citizens try to protest against you we'll beat them and pepper spray them and lock them up.

Our present "foreign policy" is that of a whore. Or hadn't you noticed? We'll do anything for anyone and overlook anything if they have money for us.

Any Canadian who has the temerity to criticise American foreign policy obviously has no shame - or else no knowledge.

I could care less about America's policies, but when Spain followed them, they got a commuter train destroyed in Madrid's rush hour.

And so we should scurry away in fear? I thought you had a moral reason to not follow American foreign policy, not mere fear. And btw, Al Quaeda, which is the enemy of all decent people, has listed Canada as fourth on its target list. It seems they hate us regardless.

Is this somehow acceptable? Or...should Canada follow her own path and make friends around the world and keep out of the crosshairs of those who cause trouble for the sake of causing trouble?

Listen, I can be as stupid and naively hopeful as the next guy. In a perfect world my foreign policy would have us pull all embassies and recognition and respect for despotic regimes, including China and all the middle east. But that's not exactly realistic, and in most cases America's interests are ours. Like it or not.

[Bionic Antboy]

Why is that any time a person criticises an American policy, they are accused of Anti-Americanism?

I am not anti-American, but I am very pro-Canadian.

Being pro-Canadian means that I want my nation to have an independent foreign policy. It means that my country wants to protect the environment, treat all citizens with equality and dignity, house the homeless and treat the sick.

I could care less about America's policies, but when Spain followed them, they got a commuter train destroyed in Madrid's rush hour.

If we should follow another nations foreign policy, what mass transit system in what major Canadian city would you like to see destroyed by a terrorist attack?

Is this somehow acceptable? Or...should Canada follow her own path and make friends around the world and keep out of the crosshairs of those who cause trouble for the sake of causing trouble?

Well said ... allthough I don't think it was fear of reprisal that keep us from joining in the illegal invasion, nor should it be fear that dictates our foreign policy in the future. We had plenty of legitimate reasons to stay out of Iraq.

[takeanumber]

If Canadian foreign policy is a whore the US, why then did Canada stay out of Iraq?

And based on that point, why then did Harper want to go into Iraq?

What does that make Stephen Harper?

[Bionic Antboy]

Our present "foreign policy" is that of a whore. Or hadn't you noticed? We'll do anything for anyone and overlook anything if they have money for us.

Any Canadian who has the temerity to criticise American foreign policy obviously has no shame - or else no knowledge.

Is okay to criticise American foreign policy if we also criticise Canadian foreign policy?

I agree that we shouldn't be so quick to hop into bed with countries that trample human rights and freedoms. Just because we may be wrong in some areas DOESN'T mean that US foreign policy is okay. It's not an either/or situation.

Canada may be a whore, but the US is a thug. A match made in heaven?

[Bionic Antboy]

If Canadian foreign policy is a whore the US, why then did Canada stay out of Iraq?

And based on that point, why then did Harper want to go into Iraq?

What does that make Stephen Harper?

Harper just wants us to add a new "john" to our list.

[BigGunner]

Are left wingers on this forum getting stupider by the minute. Stop posting a bunch of BS, put up some links to support your claim. If I said

Jack Layton is a nazi, and endorses anti semitic MP's. Than that is making up a bunch of lies, which you left wingers are doing right now.

Did you not follow the link and read the article on how Harper would merge the RCMP and CSIS?

[Sully]

I read it, sounds like a great idea. Be nice to know we do not have two agencies working against each other and rather working with each other.

[takeanumber]

Jack Layton is a nazi, and endorses anti semitic MP's. Than that is making up a bunch of lies, which you left wingers are doing right now.

So Jack Layton is a Nazi now.

You know, Harper's position on C-250 is extremely similar to the position taken by the Nazi's in 1932.

You should be mindful of history.

Ooops. Maybe Conservatives are.

I read it, sounds like a great idea. Be nice to know we do not have two agencies working against each other and rather working with each other.

Wow. You mean now CSIS agents can drive aboriginals out in the middle of nowhere and let them freeze to death?

How about go after journalists?

Oh, no, wait! This will be great, because now the RCMP will be able to get away with it under the guise of National Security...which opens up muslims to the process.

What a great country Conservatives have planned for us!

Then, the Conservatives can use the secret police to get rid of all the Metis, instead of just grabing their status cards and denying that they exist.

Sounds terrific.

Gosh, with ideas like that, it's a wonder why the Alliance wasn't elected in 2000!

Super!

I guess those commercials really have a point.

[Alliance Fanatic]

So Jack Layton is a Nazi now.

No, I said would be a stupid remark to say, because its not true. Unlike you left wingers I am not comfortable with spreading lies.

You know, Harper's position on C-250 is extremely similar to the position taken by the Nazi's in 1932.

Ensuring that religous freedom is protected under hate laws, and gays get equal access to federal jobs. Wow I never knew Hitler believed in that provide a link please.

The RCMP should take over national security and customs, its common sense. Why not make one large Canadian department of Public Safety. That would be alot more efficient, and would get rid of a bit of bureaucracy.

PS- If you think that RCMP members and CSIS members are "secret Police" than you should have more respect for the men and women who put their lives on the line to make sure your safe from criminals.

[Sully]

Wow. You mean now CSIS agents can drive aboriginals out in the middle of nowhere and let them freeze to death?

QUOTE]

Oh no you uncovered the secret hidden agenda of the CONS, were doomed, I guess the Cons will not be able to implement the Gestapo as soon as they liked!!!!!

Oh, no, wait! This will be great, because now the RCMP will be able to get away with it under the guise of National Security...which opens up muslims to the process.

What a great country Conservatives have planned for us!

Then, the Conservatives can use the secret police to get rid of all the Metis, instead of just grabing their status cards and denying that they exist.QUOTE]

Keep beating your fear mongering drum!!!!

I love these fear tactics you use, your rants are completely logical, factual and based on reasoning!!!! Wow you solely will be the demise of the cons when you nail them to the wall on those points you made. I guess I better start looking for alternative to vote for, eh!

[Bionic Antboy]

Are left wingers on this forum getting stupider by the minute. Stop posting a bunch of BS, put up some links to support your claim.

Whoa, lighten up, righty! Self-righteous indignation and name calling is never gonna win you points.

Harper has said on more than one occassion that we should have had troops on the ground in Iraq. Why? Iraq and al-Qaeda aren't the same thing. The Iraq Invasion was a distraction from the so-called "war on terror". Tagging along would have been morally bankrupt.

The CPC have out of context sound bites, with no reference to source material, which is spurious to say the least. Just one example of a blatant lie by the Conservatives...

“I really think Canada should get over to Iraq as quickly as possible,"

(Paul Martin, Prime Minister, North Bay Nugget, April 30, 2003)

The implication is that we should get troops on the ground, where in fact Martin was talking about humanitarian aid.

Many other quotes are out of context half-sentences as well. Lies and BS to be sure. Do some research...

[Slavik44]

Certainly there are a few problems with merging the RCMP with CSIS, it could result in abuse of power. However it also could lead to better coiridnation and emergency preparedness, among officails with in canada. But if there was a powercheck in place, to make sure they stayed in line then I don't see why not.

[takeanumber]

Actually, one of the Nazi claims while it was burning down homosexual resources centres in 1933 was that they were protecting religious freedom.

(Source: "The Men with Pink Triangles", 1981.)

Why don't you do some research?

Argus = PWNED!

Enjoy.

Now, what's especially funny, is that whenever you talk about the CONS secret agenda, they always have the same response.

A homosexual shows up to a rally? Beat him.

A reporter asks a question about C-250? Boo them.

And this is just how the Cons respond to any debate.

Attack the questioner personally by calling them whacko's, or accusing them of bias, or invoking sacred rights.

For instance:

PS- If you think that RCMP members and CSIS members are "secret Police" than you should have more respect for the men and women who put their lives on the line to make sure your safe from criminals.

Well then!

If you use that logic, we should be THANKFUL that the RCMP hauls aboriginals out to the outskirts of the city and leaves them to die, and then cover it up.

Right?

I should be thankful?

Just because some of them do good work, doesn't mean they all get carte blanche to do whatever the hell they want.

You know, I cry myself to sleep every single night thinking about the few crooked, poor, corrupt RCMP officers that have to cover up for the really poor, crooked, corrupt RCMP officers.

I just tear up.

Thank God there are other morally corrupt white old men to defend them by invoking the "protection from criminals" clause.

*sniff*

If anything, we owe it to the GOOD RCMP officers and the FEW good CSIS officers to root out the corrupt bastards, instead of defending them whenever the media catches them killing people, or lining their own pockets with drug money.

[Sully]

Wow checkmate, takeanumber!!

Once again you just take over debates with the facts, logic and reason, amazing, just amazing!!

You got all us cons running for the hills!!!