What is "liberal" about the "lib-left"?

[BubberMiley]

What's insulting about being called a right winger?

Also, what is leftist about believing in individual rights?

[Moonlight Graham]

That's still what I believe. But why do many insist on calling me a right-winger?

I'll admit that i have sometimes seen you argue views that are conservative/right-wing, leading me to think that the "left-wing yank" comment is sarcasm. I guess it ain't.

But ya, i think it's that you have strong views on both sides of the left-right spectrum that leads to confusion.

[jbg]

The lib-lefts like to think of themselves as tolerant and your admittance to "intolerance" is more a right-wing trait. That would make you more of a "national socialist".

You have to propound your love of people and that you want the best for them, not call them "too stupid to tolerate living around" if you wish to continue being considered a leftist.

I quoted a portion of this post from another thread because this raises questions that are worthy of discussion. They are also off-topic in that thread, relating to Foxnews.

I often times refer to myself as a liberal (small "l") and a leftist. This is because over the years I have been quite comfortable with promotion of the civil rights of blacks, opposition to the Vietnam War, and support of female and gay rights. Far more than the position of opponents.

I am frequently challenged, even ridiculed for calling myself "leftist". What I am not grasping is exactly what is "liberal" about what Pliny refers to as "lib-lefts".

Thoughts.

[dre]

I quoted a portion of this post from another thread because this raises questions that are worthy of discussion. They are also off-topic in that thread, relating to Foxnews.

I often times refer to myself as a liberal (small "l") and a leftist. This is because over the years I have been quite comfortable with promotion of the civil rights of blacks, opposition to the Vietnam War, and support of female and gay rights. Far more than the position of opponents.

I am frequently challenged, even ridiculed for calling myself "leftist". What I am not grasping is exactly what is "liberal" about what Pliny refers to as "lib-lefts".

Thoughts.

I figure who cares. Dont worry about pigeon holing yourself into either one of those categories. And dont worry about other idiots trying to stuff you into them either. Most people dont even know what they mean anyways.

Also, Im not sure if youve notice that. But a 100% infallable law on internet forums is that the people the most obsessed with those terms and that dichotomy... the people constantly throwing those terms around... are WITHOUT EXCEPTION the dimmest bulbs, least capable of engaging in any sort of interest discussion.

Fuck em.

Edited November 17, 2010 by dre

[Michael Hardner]

I quoted a portion of this post from another thread because this raises questions that are worthy of discussion. They are also off-topic in that thread, relating to Foxnews.

I often times refer to myself as a liberal (small "l") and a leftist. This is because over the years I have been quite comfortable with promotion of the civil rights of blacks, opposition to the Vietnam War, and support of female and gay rights. Far more than the position of opponents.

I am frequently challenged, even ridiculed for calling myself "leftist". What I am not grasping is exactly what is "liberal" about what Pliny refers to as "lib-lefts".

Thoughts.

liberal

a. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.

That's where it came from, I think. Liberals were more inclined to be free from racial and religious bigotry during the mid 20th century... uh... I think....

[KeyStone]

I quoted a portion of this post from another thread because this raises questions that are worthy of discussion. They are also off-topic in that thread, relating to Foxnews.

I often times refer to myself as a liberal (small "l") and a leftist. This is because over the years I have been quite comfortable with promotion of the civil rights of blacks, opposition to the Vietnam War, and support of female and gay rights. Far more than the position of opponents.

I am frequently challenged, even ridiculed for calling myself "leftist". What I am not grasping is exactly what is "liberal" about what Pliny refers to as "lib-lefts".

Thoughts.

It sounds like you're really more of a Ron Paul Libertarian than a leftist.

While some of the moral issues can waver, the key criteria about being left, is not crying that taxes are too high.

[jbg]

That's where it came from, I think. Liberals were more inclined to be free from racial and religious bigotry during the mid 20th century... uh... I think....

That's still what I believe. But why do many insist on calling me a right-winger?

[Shwa]

That's still what I believe. But why do many insist on calling me a right-winger?

They just want to insult you.

[Michael Hardner]

That's still what I believe. But why do many insist on calling me a right-winger?

I have been called a right-winger too. Some people think that folks should stand on one side of a policy line or the other. If you are slightly different than most of your ilk, they will try to pigeonhole you.

[BubberMiley]

... the people constantly throwing those terms around... are WITHOUT EXCEPTION the dimmest bulbs, least capable of engaging in any sort of interest discussion.

Fuck em.

Considering poor beleaguered jbg calls himself a radical left-winger right in his profile, I'm surprised you would be call him the dimmest of bulbs. Such insults are really unnecessary.

But I'm still not sure why standing up for individual rights is a "left-wing" cause. It seems to fit perfectly on the right for me. I think he's really a radical far-right-winger who likes to be disengenuous mysterious, or a far-right-winger who sincerely has no clue what that is.

[Oleg Bach]

Liberalism is the hope of one party rule. It is the dream of an uncontested government that has the power to tell what sex you are or are not - How to raise your children - and allowing the talentless and weak a place of status in society so they all feel good...Liberalism was once based in the word to liberate- to free...now because it has the agenda of trouncing all competators it might as well be called soft facism...oh - sorry my liberal friends...I almost used the word Nazi..but being a politically correct fellow myself - I will never say that liberals are those that are the most cowardly with the stongest urge to control others because they have a difficult time controling themselves...

I hope I did not offend anyone - and most of all I don't mind living in a liberal world of forced tolerance to all of lifes poisons..that the LIBERAL mind has convinced itself that it can convince me that shit is honey.

[Michael Hardner]

Liberalism is the hope of one party rule. It is the dream of an uncontested government that has the power to tell what sex you are or are not - How to raise your children - and allowing the talentless and weak a place of status in society so they all feel good...Liberalism was once based in the word to liberate- to free...now because it has the agenda of trouncing all competators it might as well be called soft facism...oh - sorry my liberal friends...I almost used the word Nazi..but being a politically correct fellow myself - I will never say that liberals are those that are the most cowardly with the stongest urge to control others because they have a difficult time controling themselves...

I hope I did not offend anyone - and most of all I don't mind living in a liberal world of forced tolerance to all of lifes poisons..that the LIBERAL mind has convinced itself that it can convince me that shit is honey.

Liberals are likely glad that you're not on their team.

[Wild Bill]

That's still what I believe. But why do many insist on calling me a right-winger?

Political philosophy definitions have changed greatly over the years. Hence all the confusion. Modern terms seem to identify a leftwinger as a 'heart' person, as opposed to a right winger who leads from his 'head'. The terms are usually pejorative, in that it is assumed that the person named has only one of the attributes and lacks the other.

In other words, rightwingers have no heart and leftwingers have no brain!

There does seem to be a bit of truth to these generalizations. Rightwingers tend to be the ones asking how will we afford some goal or even if it is a good goal to chase. Leftwingers tend to take those points for granted, chalking opposition up to "rightwing meanness" and " a lack of intelligence to see the nobility of the goal".

Meanwhile, rightwingers are accusing lefties of giving sugar water to crying babies for the ego boo of making them smile while being too stupid to notice they're causing the babies' teeth to rot out, while lefties accuse rightwingers of hating babies!

As with all such emotional generalizations, the terms aren't always very accurate.

The short answer is, many assume you're a rightwinger because you tend to post rational and logical arguments. If you stuck to emotionalism and ad hominem cutdowns of your opponents you'd be assumed to be a lefty.

Edited November 17, 2010 by Wild Bill

[Oleg Bach]

Liberals are likely glad that you're not on their team.

But I am on their team! _ I am a real liberal - which makes me a real conservative. I have one gripe with control freaks of any kind...which is that I am a free man...and no one other than God can take that freedom away from me - not the left hand of man or the right...in other words my dear friend...Politics is theatre for those nerds that want to play the role of God...

"The supremacy of God and the rule of law there under" - to para phrase the pre-amble (spirit) of our glorious charter of rights...this pre-amble there is to STOP foos from taking total power and abusing the people...even if there is no God in the mind of some--at least this spirit or rule brings people into a state of higher mindedness....Liberals hate God because they want to be God - that is a serious problem seeing the are not equipped for the job.

[BubberMiley]

I think the confusion as to what constitutes a “right-winger” or a “left-winger” might be derived from right-wingers’ tendency to forgo individual rights when confronted with people they don’t like who want them. So individual liberty and freedom from government interference is secondary when it comes to the personal autonomy and freedom to have an abortion, or individual rights for black people or gay people or pot-smokers.

But just because right-wingers are inconsistent and hypocritical doesn’t make these issues a left-wing cause. Left-wingers don’t care about individual rights. They’re in it for the collective.

[Sir Bandelot]

Liberals were more inclined to be free from racial and religious bigotry during the mid 20th century... uh... I think....

= Basura

Liberals have expanded the definition of bigotry to include, practically anything that involves a value judgement on other peoples personal choices or lifestyles. There is no right or wrong way to live. Leftist liberal means, leftist degenerate.

[Shwa]

= Basura

Liberals have expanded the definition of bigotry to include, practically anything that involves a value judgement on other peoples personal choices or lifestyles. There is no right or wrong way to live. Leftist liberal means, leftist degenerate.

And of course when all the news stories came out about right-wingers hanging their wangs out in airport washrooms waiting for willing passers-by, the liberals did not condemn them. They merely chuckled.

Those degenerate liberals!

Huge list of Republican/Right Wing sex scandals

Be warned the link contains graphic language like gay, lesbian, blowjob, yiffing...

[Michael Hardner]

= Basura

Liberals have expanded the definition of bigotry to include, practically anything that involves a value judgement on other peoples personal choices or lifestyles. There is no right or wrong way to live.

Did you catch the contradiction there ? Sentence 1 says practically anything, then sentence true says there is NO right/wrong way to live.

Sentence 1 is correct, and the thing that bigotry does not include is a basic Christian golden-rule type attitude: live and let live. If you do not let live, then not let live.

Even liberals will condemn you if you push people around.

[BubberMiley]

Did you catch the contradiction there ? Sentence 1 says practically anything, then sentence true says there is NO right/wrong way to live.

What I get out of both posts is that neither of you can present a coherent idea.

Call me when liberals are defending pedophiles because it's just a "value judgement".

[Michael Hardner]

Call me when liberals are defending pedophiles because it's just a "value judgement".

Why do you want us to call you ?

[BubberMiley]

Why do you want us to call you ?

Because then you'd have an argument.

[Sir Bandelot]

Did you catch the contradiction there ? Sentence 1 says practically anything, then sentence true says there is NO right/wrong way to live.

Sentence 1 is correct, and the thing that bigotry does not include is a basic Christian golden-rule type attitude: live and let live. If you do not let live, then not let live.

Even liberals will condemn you if you push people around.

Sentence one and sentence two in my post are both liberal attitudes. No contradiction there, that I can see.

[BubberMiley]

Sentence one and sentence two in my post are both liberal attitudes. No contradiction there, that I can see.

No sense either. But that's okay.

[Michael Hardner]

Because then you'd have an argument.

What ? How ?

[Sir Bandelot]

Call me when liberals are defending pedophiles because it's just a "value judgement".

Give it time, and remove all conservative opposition and barriers, and it will eventually happen. It always begins in the realm of comedy. By making "jokes" about pedophilia to break down the general feeling of disgust, get people to laugh about it, to drop their inhibitions. Then it advances by incrementalism, one by one the traditions based on ancient wisdom fall, and all the iniquities they are intended to prevent consequently released.

The final conclusion of unrestrained liberalism is a degenerate society of hedonists, neurotics, drug abusers, sexual deviants, rampant disease and finally, cancer. But fear not, in such as disastrous collapse of civilization the end would only come swiftly. For reading of further interest see "Fall of the Roman Empire"...