Civilization v. Savagery - From Middle East to Europe and Back Again

[jbg]

For example the richest countries in Africa are South Africa, Botswana, and Namibia, and theyre right on the very southern tip further from the equator than all the others.

Namibia is named for the Namib Desert which occupies most of the country.

The poorest country in Asia is the one closest to the equator (indonesia)....

And really that part of Asia's only oil exporter. I guess the oligarchs export the proceeds as well-to Swiss bank accounts. And further north Pakistan, Uzbekistan, Turkemistan and North Korea are no garden spots.

[Jack Weber]

Namibia is named for the Namib Desert which occupies most of the country.

And really that part of Asia's only oil exporter. I guess the oligarchs export the proceeds as well-to Swiss bank accounts. And further north Pakistan, Uzbekistan, Turkemistan and North Korea are no garden spots.

I thought that Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan were landlocked???

Or are they on the Caspian Sea???

Edited November 28, 2010 by Jack Weber

[Jack Weber]

.

Edited November 28, 2010 by Jack Weber

[jbg]

I thought that Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan were landlocked???

Or are they on the Caspian Sea???

Same impact. The Caspian Sea is a landlocked inland sea, just like the Great Salt Lake.

As far as landlocked countries go, Switzerland is no hellhole.

And as far as the point about the Palestinians having no opportunity to learn to self-govern what opportunity did the Jews have? And yet the State of Israel is not a chaotic, violent, illiterate and ungovernable hellhole.

[Argus]

The above usually signifies when the Big Giant Head has been bested...Again!

What's it like Argus when you get kicked down a few pegs?

I dunno. What's it like to have to pretend you bested someone somehow in a debate you aren't even engaged in so you can have some sense of importance in your life?

G'way, kid.

[Jack Weber]

I dunno. What's it like to have to pretend you bested someone somehow in a debate you aren't even engaged in so you can have some sense of importance in your life?

G'way, kid.

Ah yes...

The dismissive "wave away" from the self admitted elitist...

Right on cue...

The Big Giant Head gets his legs cut out from under him...again...

Edited November 29, 2010 by Jack Weber

[Shwa]

Only if you live in a black and white world. "Bloodthirsty killer" implies someone who delights in killing others. That's quite a far cry from my portrayal of Muslims as religious fanatics dedicated to a value system which is a thousand years out of date.

But of course, someone who make sweeping generalizations about millions is not living a "black and white world." As if.

All you are doing here is trying to backtrack like a clumsy dodger. Nice try, but it didn't work, you just dug yourself in deeper.

I don't think anyone would believe that my saying "Muslims in the middle east" precludes the likelihood that there are some Muslims in that geographical area who don't fit in with the generalities I'm making use of. By using a generality of that nature I'm very clearly suggesting "the bulk of" that population group, ie, the cultural sentiments of that group, and not each and every single member of it.

So at least you admitting to the simple minded generalization that is subject to ridicule so often. Oh wait, you weren't generalizing about everyone, just the "bulk of" them all. And you trying the old appeal to popularity schtick by saying "anyone." Seriously, did you even make it out of grade 10? Yet?

In other words, you're being anal.

In other words, there is that fixation of yours again.

The one whose prime minister is about to accept an award from Libya's Mohamar Khaddafi for human rights? Interesting writeup on him in today's paper. Standing morality on its head

That's it? That's all you can bring?

First you say you are not black and white, but generalize your rules anyway. Then you admit that there are exceptions to your general rules. And then you try to rationalize your exception with a single article from the {gag} National Post on a nothing story?

I can see why Jack has termed you the Big Giant Head. For comic relief obviously.

[Argus]

So at least you admitting to the simple minded generalization that is subject to ridicule so often.

By weak debaters without the ability to actually discuss an issue without obsessing on something they hope can distract from their lack of substance.

Oh wait, you weren't generalizing about everyone, just the "bulk of" them all.

Yes, Sparky, generalizations do indeed focus on "the bulk of" and allow for exceptions to the rule.

Seriously, did you even make it out of grade 10? Yet?

Seriously, will you ever make it into grade 10?

First you say you are not black and white, but generalize your rules anyway.

You are simply too tedious. You really need to get out of your mom's basement more.

I can see why Jack has termed you the Big Giant Head. For comic relief obviously.

Children often find what adults say amusing. And you and he seem to share a certain giggly, pre-adolescent mindset.

[Shwa]

By weak debaters without the ability to actually discuss an issue without obsessing on something they hope can distract from their lack of substance.

Oh is this another attempt at the artful dodge? No, it's still another pretty clumsy retraction - but a retraction nonetheless. You have already been caught by your own hasty generalization, now what's this? An appeal to ridicule?

Yes, Sparky, generalizations do indeed focus on "the bulk of" and allow for exceptions to the rule.

Except your 'bulk of' argument doesn't fly because you haven't even come close to addressing those people or groups working for change within those regimes. Or did you forget the violent protests at the recent Iranian presidential elections? Your viewpoint is at best simplistic and simple minded. I suppose that you are going to tell us that "purple's a fruit" too?

Seriously, will you ever make it into grade 10?

You are simply too tedious. You really need to get out of your mom's basement more.

Children often find what adults say amusing. And you and he seem to share a certain giggly, pre-adolescent mindset.

Awwww, you're hurting the feelings of a screen name on some Internet forum. Such a big man you are!

[bloodyminded]

Awwww, you're hurting the feelings of a screen name on some Internet forum. Such a big man you are!

Yeah, the "get out of your mom's basement" theme is code for "I disagree," minus intelligence and civility.I'd like to know who is the person responsible for initiating the numerous stock phrases endlessly plagairized by those who so quickly tire of actual debate; but then, we should probably blame those who repeat the phraseology, not those who came up with it.

Or perhaps that's just my "fevered imagination" talking. (Since that's another banality repeated ad nauseum.)

Edited November 30, 2010 by bloodyminded

[Shwa]

Yeah, the "get out of your mom's basement" theme is code for "I disagree," minus intelligence and civility.I'd like to know who is the person responsible for initiating the numerous stock phrases endlessly plagairized by those who so quickly tire of actual debate; but then, we should probably blame those who repeat the phraseology, not those who came up with it.

Or perhaps that's just my "fevered imagination" talking. (Since that's another banality repeated ad nauseum.)

Agreed since only a massive ego, such as what might exist within a big, giant head, would believe that spewing these unimaginary cliches is somehow clever or intelligent. Or even mildly insulting.

For example, where the above poster says "get out of your mom's basement" I would respond with something like this, this, or even this.

We have a massive amount of cultural material at our disposal, where's the originality anymore?

Edited November 30, 2010 by Shwa

[bloodyminded]

Agreed since only a massive ego, such as what might exist within a big, giant head, would believe that spewing these unimaginary cliches is somehow clever or intelligent. Or even mildly insulting.

For example, where the above poster says "get out of your mom's basement" I would respond with something like this, this, or even this.

We have a massive amount of cultural material at our disposal, where's the originality anymore?

Evidently the effort needed--ie. a little bit of thinking--is too stressful.

[Argus]

Or perhaps that's just my "fevered imagination" talking. (Since that's another banality repeated ad nauseum.)

Well, I shall defer to you as something of an expert in banal conversation.

However, if I make little efort at achieving a high level of intellectual discourse you might consider that the people I'm engaged with aren't capable of understanding or appreciating such. The topic of conversation, in any event, has been shifted by them from anything approaching the subject of the topic to the moral and intellectual state of those involved in it. It seems to be a subject they prefer as it tends to help conceal their almost complete lack of knowledge or appreciation of the cultural issues involved.

[Argus]

Oh is this another attempt at the artful dodge? No, it's still another pretty clumsy retraction - but a retraction nonetheless.

Forgive me. English is not your first language, is it? I'm trying to determine whether your inability to understand basic speech is due to a lack of language skills, a subpar education, or perhaps both. I suppose attempting to explain to a sniggering adolescent minded leftist the commonly understood nature of generalities was rather pointless, but I always try to think the best, even of the dullest.

In any event, there's absolutely nothing I need to retract. I can see how it's driven you leftists into a frenzy that someone has dared to make an unflattering assessment of brown people, but I think that my opinion is amply backed up by their behaviour.

In much the same way, ironically, as my assesment of you is backed up by yours.

Except your 'bulk of' argument doesn't fly because you haven't even come close to addressing those people or groups working for change within those regimes

.

And why on earth would I? I can note, in passing, that a miniscule portion of the herd seems to be more aware of the reality of the world around it, but they are hardly an influential lot in the direction the herd travels.

Or did you forget the violent protests at the recent Iranian presidential elections?

The young and urban in Iran have always been a more sophisticated bunch. Not that that's saying much. But they're vastly overwhelmed by the praying masses who worship at the feet of their Imams and Mullahs. Most of Iran is backward, brutal, ignorant and fanatically religious - as is most of the Arab world (and before you pounce breathless delight, I'm aware Iranians aren't Arab). There are forces at work, very, very weak ones, urging actual democracy, but by far the greatest forces at play are those demanding theocratic states. I don't think there's much doubt that a free vote among the people would result in virtually every Arab state being run by the Mullahs with Sharia law, complete with stonings.

Edited November 30, 2010 by Argus

[Oleg Bach]

I would rather have it out with fist and sword than leave my fate with a man in a black robe with HONOURABLE as his title. At least the old way a good man had a chance.

[bloodyminded]

However, if I make little efort at achieving a high level of intellectual discourse you might consider that the people I'm engaged with aren't capable of understanding or appreciating such.

If your intellect is indeed so elevated, that's a possibility. But it remains your assumption; we'll never know until you make the effort.

[Shwa]

Forgive me. English is not your first language, is it? I'm trying to determine whether your inability to understand basic speech is due to a lack of language skills, a subpar education, or perhaps both. I suppose attempting to explain to a sniggering adolescent minded leftist the commonly understood nature of generalities was rather pointless, but I always try to think the best, even of the dullest.

Aww, Argus. That hurt. No, no it didn't. Perhaps if you tried explaining your position in French, it might be more intelligible.

In any event, there's absolutely nothing I need to retract. I can see how it's driven you leftists into a frenzy that someone has dared to make an unflattering assessment of brown people, but I think that my opinion is amply backed up by their behaviour.

Yeah, but you backtrack, dodge and squirm. All signs of retraction; or call it 'contraction' if all that artful dodging is too much for your pride.

In much the same way, ironically, as my assesment of you is backed up by yours.

Obviously assesments learned at the Great Gazoo School of Sociology.

And why on earth would I? I can note, in passing, that a miniscule portion of the herd seems to be more aware of the reality of the world around it, but they are hardly an influential lot in the direction the herd travels.

A God-like observation if there is one. Of course, Lech Walesa doesn't count because he wasn't "brown."

The young and urban in Iran have always been a more sophisticated bunch. Not that that's saying much. But they're vastly overwhelmed by the praying masses who worship at the feet of their Imams and Mullahs. Most of Iran is backward, brutal, ignorant and fanatically religious - as is most of the Arab world (and before you pounce breathless delight, I'm aware Iranians aren't Arab). There are forces at work, very, very weak ones, urging actual democracy, but by far the greatest forces at play are those demanding theocratic states. I don't think there's much doubt that a free vote among the people would result in virtually every Arab state being run by the Mullahs with Sharia law, complete with stonings.

Ah, more retraction er.. I mean contraction - excellent. We've gone from 'all' to 'bulk of' to Iranians which indicates a widening exception to your own contradictory rules.

And you know what? Even the Great Gazoo mellowed over time, no shame in that.

[Shwa]

The topic of conversation, in any event, has been shifted by them from anything approaching the subject of the topic to the moral and intellectual state of those involved in it.

Yes, Oleg complains of this phenomenon too. So does Mr. Canada.

[bloodyminded]

Yes, Oleg complains of this phenomenon too. So does Mr. Canada.