DogOnPorch Posted November 24, 2010 Report Posted November 24, 2010 Frankly... Spot on!!! Sure...makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside, too. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Jack Weber Posted November 24, 2010 Report Posted November 24, 2010 Sure...makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside, too. Wait a minute... I have no love lost for the Islamofascists/Wahabites of the world... But they are a perversion...I'm more interested in the solutions that Tarek Fatah and Salim Mansour talk about... It's very easy to paint over a billion people with a broad brush of being bloodthirsty killers but logic dictates that simply cannot be the case.The problem is that the bloodthirsty killer wacko set within Islam is so intimidating that they seem to silence the moderate voices who talk about faith based introspection and mutual respect... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Argus Posted November 24, 2010 Report Posted November 24, 2010 It's very easy to paint over a billion people with a broad brush of being bloodthirsty killers but logic dictates that simply cannot be the case.The problem is that the bloodthirsty killer wacko set within Islam is so intimidating that they seem to silence the moderate voices who talk about faith based introspection and mutual respect... Nice straw man. Nobody is portraying all Muslims as being "bloodthirsty killers". No, the problem with Muslims, particularly those from the middle east area is a deep, all encompassing faith and belief in the literal words of the Koran, and a willingness to accept brutality, ignorance and violence in the name of Allah. they might not do it themselves, but if their government executes people for being gay, or stones women for having sex outside marriage, well, they're not all that upset by it, that's for sure. God is everything. God is all that matters. The will of God is all they are concerned about. I dislike religious fanatics of any stripe, and it seems to me that almost ALL Muslims, at least those in the middle east, constitute, by our secular standards, religious fanatics. Egypt steers towards intollerence Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Jack Weber Posted November 24, 2010 Report Posted November 24, 2010 (edited) Nice straw man. Nobody is portraying all Muslims as being "bloodthirsty killers". No, the problem with Muslims, particularly those from the middle east area is a deep, all encompassing faith and belief in the literal words of the Koran, and a willingness to accept brutality, ignorance and violence in the name of Allah. they might not do it themselves, but if their government executes people for being gay, or stones women for having sex outside marriage, well, they're not all that upset by it, that's for sure. God is everything. God is all that matters. The will of God is all they are concerned about. I dislike religious fanatics of any stripe, and it seems to me that almost ALL Muslims, at least those in the middle east, constitute, by our secular standards, religious fanatics. Egypt steers towards intollerence Well... I feel smarter just for reading that little missive... I never said the problem was'nt eminating from the Middle East...Wahabite might have been the first clue... And I don't need an edcuation lesson on the state of Islamofascism in Egypt... I already know about the Coptic Christians that were murdered there,the bombings at Sharm-El-Sheikh,the fact that Egypt is the home base for the Muslim Brotherhood,and,Ayman Al-Zawahiri is Egyptian and a member of that organization... I also don't need to be told that Hosni Mubarek has not himself any favours in that region acting like a Fascist thug...Or turning a blind eye to Hamas activities on the Gaza/Egypt border.... Edited November 24, 2010 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
DogOnPorch Posted November 24, 2010 Report Posted November 24, 2010 Wait a minute... I have no love lost for the Islamofascists/Wahabites of the world... But they are a perversion...I'm more interested in the solutions that Tarek Fatah and Salim Mansour talk about... I'm a big fan of numerous Islamic reformers like Salman Rushdie and Hirsi Ali. They also bear the same message I do. Beware of Islam. It's very easy to paint over a billion people with a broad brush of being bloodthirsty killers but logic dictates that simply cannot be the case.The problem is that the bloodthirsty killer wacko set within Islam is so intimidating that they seem to silence the moderate voices who talk about faith based introspection and mutual respect... It's typical of this forum to misrepresent one's position by engaging in strawman attacks. Nowhere do I state that 'all Muslims are this or that'. But, I live in a country that allows me to disagree with a particular ideology out of principle...at least until the UN Human Rights commission makes it illegal in Canada. Then the dres and the Ghosthacked of the planet will be free to haul me in front of whatever kangaroo court they like in order to shut me up or make nice about a religion/cult I have zero respect for...more than their ilk already attempt to do (see: ). GH has already stated I'll get what I deserve re: Islamic threats and characterizes my position as 'hate'...yeah...he'll be a big lot of help re: saving free speech in this country. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Argus Posted November 24, 2010 Report Posted November 24, 2010 Well... I feel smarter just for reading that little missive... I never said the problem was'nt eminating from the Middle East...Wahabite might have been the first clue... And I don't need an edcuation lesson on the state of Islamofascism in Egypt... I already know about the Coptic Christians that were murdered there,the bombings at Sharm-El-Sheikh,the fact that Egypt is the home base for the Muslim Brotherhood,and,Ayman Al-Zawahiri is Egyptian and a member of that organization... I also don't need to be told that Hosni Mubarek has not himself any favours in that region acting like a Fascist thug...Or turning a blind eye to Hamas activities on the Gaza/Egypt border.... That's okay. I wasn't talking to you. I was pointing out to any other readers what bleeding heart liberal bullshit your defense of Islam is. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Jack Weber Posted November 24, 2010 Report Posted November 24, 2010 (edited) That's okay. I wasn't talking to you. I was pointing out to any other readers what bleeding heart liberal bullshit your defense of Islam is. Big Giant Head... If that's the best you've got you should take your sanctimonious drivel and shove off... Calling me a bleeding heart liberal is about as wrong as you can get... If you had a scintilla of the intelligence you claim to have,you would have been perceptive enough to glean that fairly easy information... But...You're not that bright...Or impressive,for that matter You're just a self important fool who thinks he's the smartest guy in the room.... Now beat it.... Edited November 24, 2010 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Guest TrueMetis Posted November 24, 2010 Report Posted November 24, 2010 So Islam wasn't "hijacked" when it steam-rollered across the map and conquered itself an empire via the sword? Except the time it did this this is how everyone did things, and in many cases the Islamic empires was much better to those it conquered than the empires they took the land from. Apologizing for Islam's horrible treatment of women and gays by relating it to some other religion is indeed relativism. One more time I have to point out that Sharia is not a definitive set of laws, it is interpreted much in the same way the charter of rights or constitution would be. So by some interpretation, just like some interpretations of christian or Judaism, gays and women are treated bad. By others they have equal rights. Islam is bad for us...and by us I don't mean YOU. It doesn't mesh with values like freedom of speech, democracy, women's rights, etc. Tell that to all the Muslims in Islamic countries fighting for those exact things. Quote
Argus Posted November 26, 2010 Report Posted November 26, 2010 (edited) Big Giant Head... Yes Big Dumb Ass? If that's the best you've got you should take your sanctimonious drivel and shove off... I'm sorry if my pointing out how ignorant and cliche'd your bleeding heart, knee jerk defense of Islam was embarrassed you, but you're really not doing yourself any favours by going into nerd-rage mode, COMPLETELY ignoring the actual alleged topic under discussion, and going on about my alleged shortcomings as if this will somehow make up for your lack of an intelligent argument. Edited November 26, 2010 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted November 26, 2010 Report Posted November 26, 2010 One more time I have to point out that Sharia is not a definitive set of laws, it is interpreted much in the same way the charter of rights or constitution would be. So by some interpretation, just like some interpretations of christian or Judaism, gays and women are treated bad. By others they have equal rights. And where can one find these interpretations being applied in Muslim countries? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Shwa Posted November 26, 2010 Report Posted November 26, 2010 Nice straw man. Then by all means, let's not construct any straw-man arguments, isn't that right Argus? So le't be specific and see what sort of language you are using to construct your non-straw-man argument and see how well is stands up to a simple test. Nobody is portraying all Muslims as being "bloodthirsty killers". No, but how short of "bloodthirsty killers" is, and I quote: "...a willingness to accept brutality, ignorance and violence...?" The only thing missing is the killing and there is no doubt that your phrase is suggesting this end. Coupled with the use of the phrase, "...the problem with Muslims..." also suggests 'all Muslims' and no on can be blamed for thinking otherwise. You even go as far as to pinpoint which Muslims, "those from the middle east area." No, the problem with Muslims, particularly those from the middle east area is a deep, all encompassing faith and belief in the literal words of the Koran, and a willingness to accept brutality, ignorance and violence in the name of Allah. they might not do it themselves, but if their government executes people for being gay, or stones women for having sex outside marriage, well, they're not all that upset by it, that's for sure. "Not all that upset." Well, either they are or they are not, and if some of them are upset, then so much for your all encompassing argument which then falls into contradiction. Secondly, there is no way that you can prove that all Muslims in "the middle east area" have "a willingness to accept brutality, ignorance and violence in the name of Allah." Or have you forgotten Turkey, you know that 99.8% Muslim country with the parliamentary democracy? Or is Turkey somehow exempt from your argument? Not middle eastern enough or not quite the 'right' kind of Muslim to count? God is everything. God is all that matters. The will of God is all they are concerned about. And, of course, here you make another assertion that only a God could possibly know. I dislike religious fanatics of any stripe, and it seems to me that almost ALL Muslims, at least those in the middle east, constitute, by our secular standards, religious fanatics. Really, and in Turkey also? Come off it Argus, you are discounting that there are individuals and groups - even in the most non-secular of countries - that are not working toward moderation, diplomacy or peaceful solutions. And I am betting the thought that there could be these types of people didn't even occur to you in the least. So while it might be a technical or semantic matter of "bloodthirsty killers" as a strawman there is no doubt that at least one person is portraying Muslims as "brutal, ignorant and violent." So Jack wasn't too far off, if he was off at all. Quote
Jack Weber Posted November 26, 2010 Report Posted November 26, 2010 Yes Big Dumb Ass? I'm sorry if my pointing out how ignorant and cliche'd your bleeding heart, knee jerk defense of Islam was embarrassed you, but you're really not doing yourself any favours by going into nerd-rage mode, COMPLETELY ignoring the actual alleged topic under discussion, and going on about my alleged shortcomings as if this will somehow make up for your lack of an intelligent argument. Speaking of self agrandizing,unintelligent idiocy.... Usually I like to "claim" I'm smarter for just reading your self-important tripe.... I can't even do that this time... It's time for you to go and try to impress someone else,Big Giant Head....You've given us an EPIC FAIL on this one.... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Jack Weber Posted November 26, 2010 Report Posted November 26, 2010 Then by all means, let's not construct any straw-man arguments, isn't that right Argus? So le't be specific and see what sort of language you are using to construct your non-straw-man argument and see how well is stands up to a simple test. No, but how short of "bloodthirsty killers" is, and I quote: "...a willingness to accept brutality, ignorance and violence...?" The only thing missing is the killing and there is no doubt that your phrase is suggesting this end. Coupled with the use of the phrase, "...the problem with Muslims..." also suggests 'all Muslims' and no on can be blamed for thinking otherwise. You even go as far as to pinpoint which Muslims, "those from the middle east area." No, the problem with Muslims, particularly those from the middle east area is a deep, all encompassing faith and belief in the literal words of the Koran, and a willingness to accept brutality, ignorance and violence in the name of Allah. they might not do it themselves, but if their government executes people for being gay, or stones women for having sex outside marriage, well, they're not all that upset by it, that's for sure. "Not all that upset." Well, either they are or they are not, and if some of them are upset, then so much for your all encompassing argument which then falls into contradiction. Secondly, there is no way that you can prove that all Muslims in "the middle east area" have "a willingness to accept brutality, ignorance and violence in the name of Allah." Or have you forgotten Turkey, you know that 99.8% Muslim country with the parliamentary democracy? Or is Turkey somehow exempt from your argument? Not middle eastern enough or not quite the 'right' kind of Muslim to count? And, of course, here you make another assertion that only a God could possibly know. Really, and in Turkey also? Come off it Argus, you are discounting that there are individuals and groups - even in the most non-secular of countries - that are not working toward moderation, diplomacy or peaceful solutions. And I am betting the thought that there could be these types of people didn't even occur to you in the least. So while it might be a technical or semantic matter of "bloodthirsty killers" as a strawman there is no doubt that at least one person is portraying Muslims as "brutal, ignorant and violent." So Jack wasn't too far off, if he was off at all. Excellent slice and dice on the Big Giant Head's misinformed self-importance.... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Argus Posted November 27, 2010 Report Posted November 27, 2010 No, but how short of "bloodthirsty killers" is, and I quote: "...a willingness to accept brutality, ignorance and violence...?" The only thing missing is the killing and there is no doubt that your phrase is suggesting this end. Only if you live in a black and white world. "Bloodthirsty killer" implies someone who delights in killing others. That's quite a far cry from my portrayal of Muslims as religious fanatics dedicated to a value system which is a thousand years out of date. "Not all that upset." Well, either they are or they are not, and if some of them are upset, then so much for your all encompassing argument which then falls into contradiction. I don't think anyone would believe that my saying "Muslims in the middle east" precludes the likelihood that there are some Muslims in that geographical area who don't fit in with the generalities I'm making use of. By using a generality of that nature I'm very clearly suggesting "the bulk of" that population group, ie, the cultural sentiments of that group, and not each and every single member of it. In other words, you're being anal. Or have you forgotten Turkey, you know that 99.8% Muslim country with the parliamentary democracy? The one whose prime minister is about to accept an award from Libya's Mohamar Khaddafi for human rights? Interesting writeup on him in today's paper. Standing morality on its head Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted November 27, 2010 Report Posted November 27, 2010 Speaking of self agrandizing,unintelligent idiocy.... I recommend you use that as a new signature file. It will aptly sum up whatever post you make it's attached to. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
jbg Posted November 28, 2010 Author Report Posted November 28, 2010 (edited) Big Giant Head... If that's the best you've got you should take your sanctimonious drivel and shove off... ***************** Now beat it.... Yes Big Dumb Ass? Calm down. This is a bulletin board. It's not even Parliament. It's less scary than a Grade 4 school hallway. Edited November 28, 2010 by jbg Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Jack Weber Posted November 28, 2010 Report Posted November 28, 2010 (edited) I recommend you use that as a new signature file. It will aptly sum up whatever post you make it's attached to. The above usually signifies when the Big Giant Head has been bested...Again! What's it like Argus when you get kicked down a few pegs? Edited November 28, 2010 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Jack Weber Posted November 28, 2010 Report Posted November 28, 2010 (edited) Calm down. This is a bulletin board. It's not even Parliament. It's less scary than a Grade 4 school hallway. I know that... But this "public servant" seems to think it's a forum to display his "vast intellectual supremacy" and his self admitted elitism... I enjoy putting self-important phonies like that in their place... Edited November 28, 2010 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
jbg Posted November 28, 2010 Author Report Posted November 28, 2010 (edited) And I don't need an edcuation lesson on the state of Islamofascism in Egypt...I already know about the Coptic Christians that were murdered there,the bombings at Sharm-El-Sheikh,the fact that Egypt is the home base for the Muslim Brotherhood,and,Ayman Al-Zawahiri is Egyptian and a member of that organization... I also don't need to be told that Hosni Mubarek has not himself any favours in that region acting like a Fascist thug...Or turning a blind eye to Hamas activities on the Gaza/Egypt border.... The point is that all the countries in that part of the world are hellholes; except Israel. Is this a coincidence? Or are you going to say its the result of: a) Zionism; colonialism; c) apartheid; or d) Western imperialism. Or maybe their system is seriously flawed. Edited November 28, 2010 by jbg Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Jack Weber Posted November 28, 2010 Report Posted November 28, 2010 The point is that all the countries in that part of the world are hellholes; except Israel. Is this a coincidence? Or are you going to say its the result of: a) Zionism; colonialism; c) apartheid; or d) Western imperialism. Or maybe their system is seriously flawed. I would say the reason that those places are hellholes is because they are backwards military/theocratic/Fascist dictatorships.... Egypt is a prime example... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
dre Posted November 28, 2010 Report Posted November 28, 2010 I would say the reason that those places are hellholes is because they are backwards military/theocratic/Fascist dictatorships.... Egypt is a prime example... Theyre too close to the equator as well. There are exceptions to the rule but in general the level of craziness, undevelopedness, and poorness increases as you get closer to the equator. This is probably because that band around the planet is one of the harder places to build an agrarian economy. Theyre starved for water, and short on natural fertile soil, trees, and so on. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Jack Weber Posted November 28, 2010 Report Posted November 28, 2010 Theyre too close to the equator as well. There are exceptions to the rule but in general the level of craziness, undevelopedness, and poorness increases as you get closer to the equator. This is probably because that band around the planet is one of the harder places to build an agrarian economy. Theyre starved for water, and short on natural fertile soil, trees, and so on. Egypt is'nt that close to the Equator... My wife is from Cameroon...THAT'S close to the Equator!!! Very fertile land...Fascist dictatorship,however... Look up Paul Biya and the Coat of Arms of Cameroon... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Guest TrueMetis Posted November 28, 2010 Report Posted November 28, 2010 Theyre too close to the equator as well. There are exceptions to the rule but in general the level of craziness, undevelopedness, and poorness increases as you get closer to the equator. This is probably because that band around the planet is one of the harder places to build an agrarian economy. Theyre starved for water, and short on natural fertile soil, trees, and so on. .. You do realize that Egypt is one of the cradles of civilization and one of the first places to develop agriculture? They had no problem with it thousands of years ago. Quote
dre Posted November 28, 2010 Report Posted November 28, 2010 .. You do realize that Egypt is one of the cradles of civilization and one of the first places to develop agriculture? They had no problem with it thousands of years ago. Im not saying there isnt exceptions. And the middle east has less water than it did thousands of years ago and WAY more people. Egypt has a major shortage of clean fresh water that has reached crisis proportions. A large puddle provides the only drinking water for many residents of Brulus on the Nile Delta. The water is putrid.Anger and desperation brought residents to the streets, blocking the local highway in protest at what they say is the Egyptian government's indifference to the crisis. One woman protesting said: "We have to use this water, we have no choice. Dead dogs and donkeys are thrown into this water. "It's very dirty yet. We use it for drinking, to wash our clothes and dishes." The UN estimates that tens of thousands of people die each year in Egypt from water borne diseases or dehydration. Failing crops And it is not just the people who are dying of thirst - so is the land. Farms are not producing enough crops. Farmers are falling into debt waiting through another meagre harvest. One farmer said: "We can't sleep at night we're so thirsty. We have no one to go to except maybe to God for help." More than 100,000 people in the area are facing sickness or death from the water shortage. http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2007/07/2008525184645341324.html If you look at most of the worlds most prosperious countries youll see that for the most part they exist in temperate climates where water is abundant. Just for fun find a map of the world that shows climate/water data, and another that shows percapita GDP. THe correlation isnt perfect but its very strong. Even when you look within various continents. For example the richest countries in Africa are South Africa, Botswana, and Namibia, and theyre right on the very southern tip further from the equator than all the others. The poorest country in Asia is the one closest to the equator (indonesia) and in Latin America Argentina, Chile, and Uruguay are historically the wealthiest. Southern Europe is poorer than Northern Europe and the the Souther US is poorer than the northern US. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
jbg Posted November 28, 2010 Author Report Posted November 28, 2010 Theyre too close to the equator as well. There are exceptions to the rule but in general the level of craziness, undevelopedness, and poorness increases as you get closer to the equator. This is probably because that band around the planet is one of the harder places to build an agrarian economy. Theyre starved for water, and short on natural fertile soil, trees, and so on. Brazil is nowhere near as close to being a hellhole and yet it straddles the equator. In the other direction much of Norway, Finland, and Iceland are too far north for much of an agrarian econony yet they are not hellholes. Israel is a neighbor to Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt. The contrast couldn't be clearer and a little bit of Lake Galilee water is not the only difference. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
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