What can you do to stop racism?

[charter.rights]

I continue to laugh at those who can't see themselves in a flood of privileges.

How many people here have a mortgage or have recently bought a new car? How were you treated by the bank? Did they give you the money you asked for?

First Nations don't have that luxury. Banks will not lend FN money for a mortgage to build on reserve because under the Indian Act the banks (or anyone else) are prohibited from taking land, or owning land, or leasing land on a reserve. So simply because of the colour of their skin native people are forced to make a decision to either move off the reserve - move out of their home communities, away from family, and friends - or find someone who lives off reserve to use their own homes as collateral, or to build what they can afford with cash, which ultimately will be under constructed and become moldy infested and leaky substandard housing. So because of their status as segregated people - apartheid people - they do not have access to the same quality of housing as we do (regardless of their income which is another issue). Mortgages and loans are our privilege over native people. The same goes for car and truck loans. Native people are treated differently because we set the rules - the Indian Act - on where they fit in society.

I know a guy who is in retail who is told to watch out for any people of colour coming into their store because "those people" are responsible for all the shoplifting. By default when a person of colour comes into that particular store, they are followed and shadowed constantly. Yet when I or my friends walk into any store, we are politely asked if we need assistance and then left on our own to browse freely. That is our privilege.

I'm not going to get in to all the examples of white privilege because there are too many to fully explain. And just because some minorities may share in the benefits of those privileges doesn't mean that it isn't racist or exclusively our privilege. Rather some people have learned to adapt and to ignore the rules of our white male dominated society preferring to go with the flow for the time being. However, we are seeing diversified influences in government starting to take effect as predominantly white males are dislodged from management positions and people are beginning to change the criteria (to the chagrin of many whom have complained here) for hiring and for equal treatment. We notice the change not because it gives minorities an upper hand but because it erodes our exclusive controls over the environment and the people who operate it.

Just remember that the next time you face a store clerk, a government worker, a banker or a corporate manager and they have the same colour of skin as you do. You don't need to know or have it explained to you that there is an automatic connection that gives you favour. It is unspoken and assumed but just as real as the nose on your face.

Edited November 12, 2010 by charter.rights

[AngusThermopyle]

So Charter, can I ask again and expect an answer? When Native people asked me where I'm from was that racist? Also when some would say I should go back to where I came from was that racist?

Keep in mind that when they would ask me where I was from I never considered that to be a racist question, merely an expression of curiosity and a desire to know more about me. According to you however, using your criteria, they must have been racist. As to the ones who would tell me to go back to where I came from, well I would just consider the source, the source usually being an ignorant mostly uneducated person such as you will find in any race on this planet. So anyway, were these people being racist?

Firstly, my mother's side of the family (primarily residing on Reserve) are by FAR more racist than any white person I have encountered. This isn't to say that they're bad people, far from it, actually.

You make a very salient point. A good friend of mine was a member of the Daychief familly, a well known famillly in those parts. He often told me that the most racist people I could meet were Native. He stated that they were even racist (oops sorry, prejudiced) amongst themselves with some of them hating others who were from a different tribal background or even just born on a different reserve.

Personally I found most to be pretty good people when approached on an individual basis. Of course there were some assholes as well, there are always some no matter what group of people you're talking about.

Edited November 12, 2010 by AngusThermopyle

[conformunist]

I continue to laugh at those who can't see themselves in a flood of privileges.

How many people here have a mortgage or have recently bought a new car? How were you treated by the bank? Did they give you the money you asked for?

First Nations don't have that luxury. Banks will not lend FN money for a mortgage to build on reserve because under the Indian Act the banks (or anyone else) are prohibited from taking land, or owning land, or leasing land on a reserve. So simply because of the colour of their skin native people are forced to make a decision to either move off the reserve - move out of their home communities, away from family, and friends - or find someone who lives off reserve to use their own homes as collateral, or to build what they can afford with cash, which ultimately will be under constructed and become moldy infested and leaky substandard housing. So because of their status as segregated people - apartheid people - they do not have access to the same quality of housing as we do (regardless of their income which is another issue). Mortgages and loans are our privilege over native people. The same goes for car and truck loans. Native people are treated differently because we set the rules - the Indian Act - on where they fit in society.

I know a guy who is in retail who is told to watch out for any people of colour coming into their store because "those people" are responsible for all the shoplifting. By default when a person of colour comes into that particular store, they are followed and shadowed constantly. Yet when I or my friends walk into any store, we are politely asked if we need assistance and then left on our own to browse freely. That is our privilege.

I'm not going to get in to all the examples of white privilege because there are too many to fully explain. And just because some minorities may share in the benefits of those privileges doesn't mean that it isn't racist or exclusively our privilege. Rather some people have learned to adapt and to ignore the rules of our white male dominated society preferring to go with the flow for the time being. However, we are seeing diversified influences in government starting to take effect as predominantly white males are dislodged from management positions and people are beginning to change the criteria (to the chagrin of many whom have complained here) for hiring and for equal treatment. We notice the change not because it gives minorities an upper hand but because it erodes our exclusive controls over the environment and the people who operate it.

Just remember that the next time you face a store clerk, a government worker, a banker or a corporate manager and they have the same colour of skin as you do. You don't need to know or have it explained to you that there is an automatic connection that gives you favour. It is unspoken and assumed but just as real as the nose on your face.

Wait, let me get this straight. You're saying "because of the colour of thier skin" Native peoples can't get a mortgage on reserve? Last I checked, it was the laws and provisions laid down by both the Canadian Government and representatives of the FN community. Having worked for Indian and Northern Affairs Canada I'm lucky enough to own a copy of the Indian Act and guess what? Nothing about skin colour in here. However, there ARE many clauses that were laid down in order to protect the native's land interests.

Secondly, again, you continue to be under the baffling assumption that FN people need someone "off reserve" to save their poor souls. Tell that to the many, MANY individuals and families whom have never left the reserve and have homes and land (tax free, obviously) that they earned through hard work or have had them passed down through the generations. I'm sure they'd love to hear how they were given the magical give of equity by some mythical off reserve saviour.

[M.Dancer]

I know a guy who is in retail who is told to watch out for any people of colour coming into their store because "those people" are responsible for all the shoplifting. By default when a person of colour comes into that particular store, they are followed and shadowed constantly. Yet when I or my friends walk into any store, we are politely asked if we need assistance and then left on our own to browse freely. That is our privilege.

I know a guy who used to watch for anyone in the store who was under 30 because those people were responsible for all the shoplifting.

He is ageist....and for the most part, correct.

[G.P. Lehmann]

Your arguments contain contradictions.

How many people here have a mortgage or have recently bought a new car? How were you treated by the bank? Did they give you the money you asked for?

No they didn't. And they seemed to be more concerned with my financial stability, strangely enough.

First Nations don't have that luxury. Banks will not lend FN money for a mortgage to build on reserve because under the Indian Act the banks (or anyone else) are prohibited from taking land, or owning land, or leasing land on a reserve. So simply because of the colour of their skin native people are forced to make a decision to either move off the reserve

Sorry. According to this, its not the color of their skin, but actually the fact they are living on a reserve that prevents them from obtaining a mortgage. Same rules would apply to a fair skinned person living on the reserve. As a previous poster mentioned, if one was to invest off the reserve and display adequate financial stability, they would be privy to the glory of housing debt.

I know a guy who is in retail who is told to watch out for any people of colour coming into their store because "those people" are responsible for all the shoplifting. By default when a person of colour comes into that particular store, they are followed and shadowed constantly. Yet when I or my friends walk into any store, we are politely asked if we need assistance and then left on our own to browse freely. That is our privilege.

. Anecdotal evidence is not evidence. Anyone can make up vague stories to support their claims.

we are seeing diversified influences in government starting to take effect as predominantly white males are dislodged from management positions and people are beginning to change the criteria (to the chagrin of many whom have complained here) for hiring and for equal treatment . We notice the change not because it gives minorities an upper hand but because it erodes our exclusive controls over the environment and the people who operate it.

I fully support equal treatment. Those who are most qualified for the position should be the one to get it. Eliminate nepotism, eliminate untouchable seniority. Unfortunately it is not equal when government positions are closed to a certain racial group and favor others, as is the present situation and what you apparently support. The most important thing is not to mirror public racial population trends in the government, but to give those most suited to the job.....THE JOB. If this means that the workforce will be dominated by Asians or Indians; who cares? As long as the individual selected is the BEST.

People like yourself are so preoccupied with accurate racial representation you are creating MORE racial tension and shirking the real problem.

[charter.rights]

Yawn....

[Shady]

Yawn....

Yawn = completely proven wrong.

[g_bambino]

I can't believe anyone here is trying to argue rationally with charter.rights. As if it wasn't evident enough from his method of debate here that he can do nothing but dogmatically worship his own beliefs, the guy is on record as stating logic is a schizophrenic delusion:

I have never said that logic wasn't useful in some sort of way, but have maintained that it is entirely mind-orientated and therefore delusional.

You make my case that logic is a delusion.

Logic is a schizophrenic concept and has no place in justice, at all, whatsoever.

Don't waste your time, folks. Unless you just want to hear some more entertaining gems from this crackpot.

[BornAlbertan]

You don't need to know or have it explained to you that there is an automatic connection that gives you favour. It is unspoken and assumed but just as real as the nose on your face.

No, I need it explained...I wanna know who who is letting all these non-whites into our exclusive Cracker Club!

Edited November 12, 2010 by BornAlbertan

[Shwa]

Well Charter, as I mentioned earlier in the thred, you tend to assume far too much. Do you recall that I lived in Fort MacLeod for some time? Do you recall that it is situated between the two largest reserves in North America? A great many times this question was asked of me by Natives, the comment about going back to where I came from was made exclusively by Natives.

So, would you not say that this was racism? Or is there some reason of which I am unaware that makes it non racist?

Largest reserves as in land mass? Or is there a 'For MacLeod' near Brantford and Hamilton or something? If I understand things correct, Six Nations is the largest reserve in Canada and the second largest in North America, after the Navaho.

US Reservations

Doesn't really affect your comment much, but I was curious.

[Oleg Bach]

EVERY PERSON - will judge the character of the man or woman on his own dispite the "race" - those interested and fixated on race are simply of no consequence - cos' they are stupid.

[Shwa]

Wait, let me get this straight. You're saying "because of the colour of thier skin" Native peoples can't get a mortgage on reserve? Last I checked, it was the laws and provisions laid down by both the Canadian Government and representatives of the FN community. Having worked for Indian and Northern Affairs Canada I'm lucky enough to own a copy of the Indian Act and guess what? Nothing about skin colour in here. However, there ARE many clauses that were laid down in order to protect the native's land interests.

Hey cool, I worked at INAC too, way back in the the day when they called is 'Shoddy Air. I also worked with the Indian Act and guess what?

WHAT SORT OF HOUSING HELP EXISTS?

Because on-reserve property cannot be mortgaged by a private lender

Of course having worked at INAC and owning a copy the Indian Act you knew this right?

Secondly, again, you continue to be under the baffling assumption that FN people need someone "off reserve" to save their poor souls. Tell that to the many, MANY individuals and families whom have never left the reserve and have homes and land (tax free, obviously) that they earned through hard work or have had them passed down through the generations. I'm sure they'd love to hear how they were given the magical give of equity by some mythical off reserve saviour.

ok, I see now - you own a copy of the Indian Act, but haven't actually read it yet... gotchya.

Edited November 12, 2010 by Shwa

[Wild Bill]

Hey cool, I worked at INAC too, way back in the the day when they called is 'Shoddy Air. I also worked with the Indian Act and guess what?

"Because on-reserve property cannot be mortgaged by a private lender"

I've known this to be true for years, Mr. Shwa. It is perhaps the most important and unfair thing about the Indian Act. By denying natives the right to individual clear title of their property they do not have any collateral to offer for a loan or a mortage. Every car dealership near a reserve knows better than to give a reserve native a loan for an automobile.

This is what happens when you put socialist social engineers in charge of an entire people and let them run wild for over a century. They successfully manage to put ALL the people under their charge into a state of equal poverty!

Except for many chiefs, of course. I guess some pigs are always more equal than others.

The entire Indian Act should be scrapped! I've heard some bands are exercising the option to get out of it, in order to enjoy the individual right to property which is one of the biggest assets for someone to climb out of poverty circumstances. I wish them every success!

[charter.rights]

"Because on-reserve property cannot be mortgaged by a private lender"

By denying natives the right to individual clear title of their property they do not have any collateral to offer for a loan or a mortage. Every car dealership near a reserve knows better than to give a reserve native a loan for an automobile.

blah blah blah....

This is neither the problem nor the solution. The idea of real property on reserve will merely create native land barons that will hoard all the land people cannot afford to keep. If it is opened to non-natives than it simply is a means to further dispossess native people of their land - something the Royal Proclamation and the Indian Act prevent us from doing.

Here is one workable solution.

Edited November 12, 2010 by charter.rights

[Who's Doing What?]

I see you subscribe to the "Kennewick Man was a European" myth. He wasn't

You might want to do some research to see how that was actually debunked, as well as the idea that natives came from Asia. That doesn't explain evidence that aboriginal people have been in the Americas for over 60,000 years AND the migration patterns suggest they came from the south and moved north. And of course archaeologist have only been looking beyond the Bearing Strait theory for about 20 years. Who knows what they will dig up in the next 20....

60,000 years in America?

Human Migration

The Kennewick Man can blow goats. Let's talk DNA.

European/Native DNA link

Edited November 12, 2010 by Who's Doing What?

[charter.rights]

60,000 years in America?

Human Migration

The Kennewick Man can blow goats. Let's talk DNA.

European/Native DNA link

It is nothing more than a popular theory. You might want to remember that the Bering Strait theory was debunked by archaeological evidence here in the Americas. Given the generalizations these theorists have redacted from their thesis, there is no doubt that it will be debunked earlier rather than later.

If it is to have any value then it will be nothing more than another tool used along with archaeology, geology and anthropology to create more theories about how indigenous people arrived here out of Africa. Certainly there is not enough value in using mitochondrial DNA theory to dismiss the other more valued tools already in use.

Edited November 12, 2010 by charter.rights

[Who's Doing What?]

It is nothing more than a popular theory. You might want to remember that the Bering Strait theory was debunked by archaeological evidence here in the Americas. Given the generalizations these theorists have redacted from their thesis, there is no doubt that it will be debunked earlier rather than later.

If it is to have any value then it will be nothing more than another tool used along with archaeology, geology and anthropology to create more theories about how indigenous people arrived here out of Africa. Certainly there is not enough value in using mitochondrial DNA theory to dismiss the other more valued tools already in use.

LEt's see, I have brought forth scientific evidence to back up my claim, while you offer nothing but your own oppinion.

Where has the Bering strait theory been debunked?

DNA suggests otherwise. There were definitly multiple migrations from Asia into North America.

You want to dismiss DNA evidence? Just what kind of crackpot are you? You a member of the flat earth society or something?

Do you still believe the Earth is carried on the back of a giant Turtle?

Edited November 13, 2010 by Who's Doing What?

[CANADIEN]

"Because on-reserve property cannot be mortgaged by a private lender"

This is what happens when you put socialist social engineers in charge of an entire people and let them run wild for over a century. They successfully manage to put ALL the people under their charge into a state of equal poverty!

This was not social engineering, and this was not about equality. This was about making Natives dependant people.

[Guest TrueMetis]

60,000 years in America?

Human Migration

Now that is a cool link. I can finally give a more definitive date for the first people in North America so thanks for that. I can also laugh at Europeans for not figuring out agriculture.

The Kennewick Man can blow goats. Let's talk DNA.

European/Native DNA link

I don't get why charter finds this so hard to deal with. Dude you're not even First Nations why do you care so much?

[charter.rights]

I don't get why charter finds this so hard to deal with.

Because mitochondrial DNA migration theory is not conclusive as the mice here think it is. In one article I read on the subject of mitochondrial DNA to determine ancestry is like saying that Meg Ryan is related to the Queen Elizabeth because they both have blond hair and blue eyes. That is hardly a definitive way to determine ancestry, let alone migration.

Maybe you should read up a little more on the science...and not just feed off the crumbs your masters feed you.

Dude you're not even First Nations why do you care so much?

Neither are you, so what does it matter to you?

The fact is that one does not have to be native to see the injustices and unlawful action taken by our government. Unless the government is fully accountable then we are nothing but a lawless nation.

Edited November 13, 2010 by charter.rights

[Guest TrueMetis]

Because mitochondrial DNA migration theory is not conclusive as the mice here think it is. In one article I read on the subject of mitochondrial DNA to determine ancestry is like saying that Meg Ryan is related to the Queen Elizabeth because they both have blond hair and blue eyes. That is hardly a definitive way to determine ancestry, let alone migration.

Maybe you should read up a little more on the science...and not just feed off the crumbs your masters feed you.

If your right (you aren't) then it can't even be proven that people came out of Africa. Don't assume that I don't understand the science, it's not exactly hard.

Neither are you, so what does it matter to you?

The fact is that one does not have to be native to see the injustices and unlawful action taken by our government. Unless the government is fully accountable then we are nothing but a lawless nation.

Seriously? The name wasn't enough of a hint for you? I am First Nations genius, I'm related to the freaking founder of Manitoba. In any event nothing you've ever said has shown interest in righting injustices and unlawful actions, you seem more interested in inflicting injustices upon the rest of Canada and turning yourself into mighty whitey.

[charter.rights]

The Out of Africa theory isn't based on mitochondrial DNA theory.

Metis are not First Nation. There is a distinction, girl . Maybe you should go study that too.

[Wild Bill]

If your right (you aren't) then it can't even be proven that people came out of Africa. Don't assume that I don't understand the science, it's not exactly hard.

Seriously? The name wasn't enough of a hint for you? I am First Nations genius, I'm related to the freaking founder of Manitoba. In any event nothing you've ever said has shown interest in righting injustices and unlawful actions, you seem more interested in inflicting injustices upon the rest of Canada and turning yourself into mighty whitey.

"Metis are not First Nation. There is a distinction, girl . Maybe you should go study that too."

Well TM, there's an answer for you! I guess you're not "pur laine" enough!

If that's not a racist attitude I don't know what is. Just another example of how the disease does not exclusively strike white folks.

I've no doubt that you and I could get along, despite my being white! I would cheerfully buy you a beer any day. However, it might be a good idea not to include CR. I'm convinced he would immediately start a violent protest over his rights to the entire brewery!

[Guest TrueMetis]

The Out of Africa theory isn't based on mitochondrial DNA theory.

You putting theory in italics suggests to me you don't know what a theory is. Theory is the top of the ladder in terms of what a science knows you can't be more proven than a theory in science. Hence germ theory, cell theory, atomic theory, the theory of gravity, evolutionary theory, etc. Second the out of Africa theory is heavily dependent on Mitochondrial DNA. You don't even have to go farther than the wiki page to find that out.

Metis are not First Nation. There is a distinction, girl . Maybe you should go study that too.

All Metis have First Nation heritage because Metis are mix of First Nations and Europeans who developed their own culture. All I have to do is go back to my earliest Metis ancestor and look at that persons parents. One of them will be First Nations. Making me First Nations. Also, girl? You need to learn to read.

Well TM, there's an answer for you! I guess you're not "pur laine" enough!

And apparently I'm a chick now to, I had no idea.

If that's not a racist attitude I don't know what is. Just another example of how the disease does not exclusively strike white folks.

I'm getting really tired of CR constant quest to save First Nations people.

I've no doubt that you and I could get along, despite my being white! I would cheerfully buy you a beer any day. However, it might be a good idea not to include CR. I'm convinced he would immediately start a violent protest over his rights to the entire brewery!

In a couple of years when I can legally drink I'll take you up on that offer.

Edited November 13, 2010 by TrueMetis

[charter.rights]

You putting theory in italics suggests to me you don't know what a theory is. Theory is the top of the ladder in terms of what a science knows you can't be more proven than a theory in science. Hence germ theory, cell theory, atomic theory, the theory of gravity, evolutionary theory, etc. Second the out of Africa theory is heavily dependent on Mitochondrial DNA. You don't even have to go farther than the wiki page to find that out.

Wiki? The Source for Lazy people. You are further intellectually behind than I thought. You aren't in a ~special~ class are you?

All Metis have First Nation heritage because Metis are mix of First Nations and Europeans who developed their own culture. All I have to do is go back to my earliest Metis ancestor and look at that persons parents. One of them will be First Nations. Making me First Nations. Also, girl? You need to learn to read.

If you are a card carrying Metis, then you are not First Nation. If you are a card-carrying First Nation, then you are not Metis. If you do not have a Metis Status card, or a First Nation Status card then you are neither. You ~might~ have native ancestry, or you could be non-status native, but neither makes you First Nation.

In any case, miss-identification is a major problem for aboriginal people, since the mainstream often try to generalize aboriginal people into one group, using the lowest common denominator (you know...the sleezy drunk homeless "Injun") as their preferred stereotype...

And apparently I'm a chick now to, I had no idea....In a couple of years when I can legally drink I'll take you up on that offer.

I must apologize for my miss-identification of you. I should have said "little girl". My bad.....

I'm getting really tired of CR constant quest to save First Nations people.

I'm not pretending to be YOU, or pretending to try to save First Nations people. Rather, I am engaged in a number of processes that actually are doing something about the inequity, and lawlessness of our government. I research and provide advice to actual Status FN people on a regular basis as well as providing legal advice to the Crown on sovereignty issues. Maybe you should be sure about who you are talking to before you attempt to miss-identify people to suit your predominantly white agenda.....?

Edited November 13, 2010 by charter.rights