Israel & the Arab World

[Keepitsimple]

Here's an article that provides a different perspective on Israeli/Arab relations. Perhaps it's terms like Israeli/Arab that imply some sort of equivalence....but in fact, nothing could be further from the truth:

Israel is merely a dot relative to the Arab world, and yet made responsible, in the logic of the anti-Zionist bigots, for the problems of the Middle East and the inability of the Arab-Muslim culture to deal with the challenges of the modern world.

Consider the following: The Arab world, excluding Iran and Turkey, is comprised of 22 countries stretching from the Gulf to the Atlantic Ocean with a total area around 13 million sq. km and a population of nearly 350 million.

In terms of territorial size, only Russia is larger than the Arab world at 17 million sq. km.

Israel is barely 22,000 sq. km, or about three times the size of New York City, with a population of 7.5 million of which 20% are Israeli Arabs.

An objective consideration of the huge disparity in size and population between the Arab world and Israel should dispel the drivel the world has been fed that Arabs are the “underdog” in a colonial struggle against Jews as a colonizing people.

The reverse disparity between Israelis and Arabs is the tremendous human achievement of the former as free people, and the contrast when measured against the sullen reality of the Arab world just about at the bottom of the UN human development index despite the resources available.

But here, too, Arabs, Muslims and their apologists in the West will fault Israelis for the collective failure of the Arab world.

Link: http://www.torontosun.com/comment/columnists/salim_mansur/2010/08/20/15091106.html

[dre]

Here's an article that provides a different perspective on Israeli/Arab relations. Perhaps it's terms like Israeli/Arab that imply some sort of equivalence....but in fact, nothing could be further from the truth:

Link: http://www.torontosun.com/comment/columnists/salim_mansur/2010/08/20/15091106.html

That whole argument is entirely fallacious. I wouldnt blame Israel for all the problems of the muslim world but the idea that Israels geographical size actually means what the author says it does is quite frankly too stupid to bother discussing.

An objective consideration of the huge disparity in size and population between the Arab world and Israel should dispel the drivel the world has been fed that Arabs are the “underdog” in a colonial struggle against Jews as a colonizing people.

Arabs ARE the undergod. Israel won a war against a lot of those countries in 6 days. They also have nuclear weapons and the unconditional military and diplomatic backing of a world super power that has nuclear fleats and hundreds of thousands of troops in the region.

[M.Dancer]

Arabs ARE the undergod. Israel won a war against a lot of those countries in 6 days. They also have nuclear weapons and the unconditional military and diplomatic backing of a world super power that has nuclear fleats and hundreds of thousands of troops in the region.

The backing has never been unconditional, just maybe not as conditional as you like. The israelis have been held back quite a few times, 1967 and 73 for example...in 73 they could have laid siege to Damascus...in 67 they could have crossed the Suez...both times at the behest of the US they held back.

[dre]

The backing has never been unconditional, just maybe not as conditional as you like. The israelis have been held back quite a few times, 1967 and 73 for example...in 73 they could have laid siege to Damascus...in 67 they could have crossed the Suez...both times at the behest of the US they held back.

Alright fair enough... that just serves to illustrate the idiocy of the authors claim even more though.

[DogOnPorch]

That whole argument is entirely fallacious. I wouldnt blame Israel for all the problems of the muslim world but the idea that Israels geographical size actually means what the author says it does is quite frankly too stupid to bother discussing.

Arabs ARE the undergod (dog I assume). Israel won a war against a lot of those countries in 6 days. They also have nuclear weapons and the unconditional military and diplomatic backing of a world super power that has nuclear fleats and hundreds of thousands of troops in the region.

In 1967, the US wasn't arming Israel or 'unconditionally' supporting its actions. Circa '67 most of Israel's military equipment was French or WW2 surplus. The US had supplied Jordan with M-48 Patton tanks and training for airborne attacks, though. The other Arab armies were armed with Soviet/Russian weapons/gear. As for not being an underdog, you'd best review the actual numbers involved in the 6 Day War...Israel was severely outnumbered in all areas.

Edited August 25, 2010 by DogOnPorch

[bush_cheney2004]

... and diplomatic backing of a world super power that has nuclear fleats and hundreds of thousands of troops in the region.

Hmmmm...let's see....US "backing" for several Arab nations hasn't exactly been absent given the nature of US interests in the region. Where/how do you think those troops have been deployed? Jordan, Egypt, and Palestine get foreign aid from the same bucket as Israel. Go count the troops in Kuwait, Dubai, Qatar, UAE, Oman, etc.

[M.Dancer]

Alright fair enough... that just serves to illustrate the idiocy of the authors claim even more though.

How so?

[DogOnPorch]

How so?

Yeah...how so?

[Bob]

Arabs ARE the undergod. Israel won a war against a lot of those countries in 6 days. They also have nuclear weapons and the unconditional military and diplomatic backing of a world super power that has nuclear fleats and hundreds of thousands of troops in the region.

Next time the Arab world loses 10% of its population in a war for independence, let me know.

The next time American soldiers begin to die defending Israel when it is under attack, let me know.

Lastly, Israel most certainly does NOT have "unconditional military and diplomatic backing" from the USA. What in the world are you talking about? There have been many, many, many serious disagreements between the two parties on all sorts of matters. You'll have a point when American soldiers start getting drafted to serve in Israel's defense. Until then, however, you're just spewing bullshit rhetoric that any honest and half-informed person knows is false.

Israel has never been backed up militarily by the USA - at most, it has technology/arms deals.

[jbg]

Arabs ARE the undergod.

Both the Jews and the Arabs are "under G-d" so that's not a distinction.

Israel won a war against a lot of those countries in 6 days. They also have nuclear weapons and the unconditional military and diplomatic backing of a world super power that has nuclear fleats and hundreds of thousands of troops in the region.

Perhaps they have a superior organization and better use of brainpower. Rather than looking for inventive ways to kill people they actually build things (link) and use their minds. Edited September 14, 2010 by jbg

[jbg]

Alright fair enough... that just serves to illustrate the idiocy of the authors claim even more though.

No. It demonstrates the idiocy of those who tried to wipe them out.

[Post To The Left]

During the war of independence Israel was so successful because there was no Arab unity. Each power Egypt, Jordan, Syria was just after its own territorial gain and didn't work at all together, Israel was able to easily defeat these independent armies. Jordan the only really strong trained army had an agreement with the Israelis to stop at the West Bank and not take any land allocated to the Israelis under the UN partition which it did (The Israelis did fight and win control of Sea access in the Negev).

During the 1967 war the Israeli State was in danger of its equally armed neighbours but it solved that problem by a preemptive strike that eviscerated the Syrian and Egyptian fighting forces.

During Yom Kippur War at the assistance of Kissinger President Nixon ordered the commencement of Operation Nickel Grass, an American airlift to supply massive amounts of Israeli war material. Material that altered the war because of the American support.

Since then American support to Israel has been enormous and in 2009 it received 7 million dollars a day that it can use to buy superior American armaments. Israel has the regions strongest military, has had for decades and a large amount of nuclear weapons to act as a deterrent.

Israel most certainly does have "unconditional military and diplomatic backing" from the USA but not only that they have unconditional American support on the UN diplomatic front. Through its veto on the UN security council the US has vetoed ANY UN resolution against Israel.

Edited September 14, 2010 by Post To The Left

[DogOnPorch]

During the war of independence Israel was so successful because there was no Arab unity. Each power Egypt, Jordan, Syria was just after its own territorial gain and didn't work at all together, Israel was able to easily defeat these independent armies. Jordan the only really strong trained army had an agreement with the Israelis to stop at the West Bank and not take any land allocated to the Israelis under the UN partition which it did (The Israelis did fight and win control of Sea access in the Negev).

The 1967 war the Israeli State was in danger of its equally armed neighbours but its solved that problem by a preemptive strike eviscerated the Syrian and Egyptian fighting forces.

During Yom Kippur War at the assistance of Kissinger President Nixon ordered the commencement of Operation Nickel Grass, an American airlift to supply massive amounts of Israeli war material. Material that altered the war because of America support.

Since then the American support to Israel has been enormous and today in 2009 it received 7 million dollars a day that it can use to buy superior American armaments. Israel has the regions strongest military, has had for decades and a large amount of nuclear weapons to act as a deterrent.

Israel most certainly does have "unconditional military and diplomatic backing" from the USA but not only that they have unconditional American support on the diplomatic front. Through its veto on the UN security council the US has vetoed ANY resolution against Israel.

Superior American arms like the Uzi...Grail...Merkava...Tiran...etc?

Edited September 14, 2010 by DogOnPorch

[jbg]

Israel most certainly does have "unconditional military and diplomatic backing" from the USA but not only that they have unconditional American support on the diplomatic front. Through its veto on the UN security council the US has vetoed ANY resolution against Israel.

Perhaps because Israel is closer to the U.S. in terms of the way it runs its country than the surrounding hell-holes.

[DogOnPorch]

Perhaps because Israel is closer to the U.S. in terms of the way it runs its country than the surrounding hell-holes.

Yup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zqj7MGf-sE

[bush_cheney2004]

Yup.

Phoebe Cates! "...Doesn't anybody knock anymore?"

[Post To The Left]

Next time the Arab world loses 10% of its population in a war for independence, let me know.

Algeria is one case in their war of Independence against the French. In 1960 its population was around 10 million. The French attempts to hold on to Algeria in the Algerian War killed an estimated 1,500,000 according to the Algerian government and 960,000 according to the French.

[DogOnPorch]

Phoebe Cates! "...Doesn't anybody knock anymore?"

She's more Jewish than Israeli, certainly.

[Post To The Left]

Superior American arms like the Uzi...Grail...Merkava...Tiran...etc?

I was thinking more of Israel's AirForce

Israel is not economically self-sufficient, and relies on foreign assistance and borrowing

to maintain its economy. Since 1985, the United States has provided $3 billion in grants annually to Israel. Since 1976, Israel has been the largest annual recipient of U.S. foreign

assistance, and is the largest cumulative recipient since World War II. In addition to U.S.

assistance, it is estimated that Israel receives about $1 billion annually through philanthropy,

an equal amount through short- and long- term commercial loans, and around $1 billion in Israel Bonds proceeds.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/IB85066.pdf

Edited September 14, 2010 by Post To The Left

[DogOnPorch]

I was thinking more of Israel's AirForce

But during the 6 Day War, the IAF was armed with French aircraft.

[DogOnPorch]

Not to mention, the bucks the US sends to Israel re: its military are a two way street rather than a welfare hand-out as per the Arab World. You've also failed to mention where the Arabs got their weapons. The weapon fairy perhaps?

[Post To The Left]

But during the 6 Day War, the IAF was armed with French aircraft.

That's why I said after the Yom Kippur War. As shown clearly by my post I stated that during the 6 Day War Israel was equally armed with its neighbours. Which is why is launched a surprise attack that destroyed the Arab forces.

[DogOnPorch]

That's why I said after the Yom Kippur War. As shown clearly by my post I stated that during the 6 Day War Israel was equally armed with its neighbours. Which is why is launched a surprise attack that destroyed the Arab forces.

So the Israelis started that one in your opinion rather than Nasser and crew?

[jbg]

That's why I said after the Yom Kippur War. As shown clearly by my post I stated that during the 6 Day War Israel was equally armed with its neighbours. Which is why is launched a surprise attack that destroyed the Arab forces.

Clearly though an Arab attack was on the horizon. Nasser had ousted the U.N. peacekeepers, and blockaded Eilat. That sort of blockade is a casus belli.

[DogOnPorch]

Clearly though an Arab attack was on the horizon. Nasser had ousted the U.N. peacekeepers, and blockaded Eilat. That sort of blockade is a casus belli.

Moving the Egyptian army to the border while calling for war across the Arab 'world' was also not to be ignored. By June 5th, Nasser had jammed Gaza with 3 mech divisions.

As Nasser said earlier that week to massed crowds:

There is no longer a way out of our present situation except by forging a road toward our objective, violently and by force, over a sea of blood and under a horizon blazing with fire.