Revenge

[bloodyminded]

Revenge

At times ... I wish

I could meet in a duel

the man who killed my father

and razed our home,

expelling me

into

a narrow country.

And if he killed me,

I’d rest at last,

and if I were ready—

I would take my revenge!

*

But if it came to light,

when my rival appeared,

that he had a mother

waiting for him,

or a father who’d put

his right hand over

the heart’s place in his chest

whenever his son was late

even by just a quarter-hour

for a meeting they’d set—

then I would not kill him,

even if I could.

*

Likewise ... I

would not murder him

if it were soon made clear

that he had a brother or sisters

who loved him and constantly longed to see him.

Or if he had a wife to greet him

and children who

couldn’t bear his absence

and whom his gifts would thrill.

Or if he had

friends or companions,

neighbors he knew

or allies from prison

or a hospital room,

or classmates from his school …

asking about him

and sending him regards.

*

But if he turned

out to be on his own—

cut off like a branch from a tree—

without a mother or father,

with neither a brother nor sister,

wifeless, without a child,

and without kin or neighbors or friends,

colleagues or companions,

then I’d add not a thing to his pain

within that aloneness—

not the torment of death,

and not the sorrow of passing away.

Instead I’d be content

to ignore him when I passed him by

on the street—as I

convinced myself

that paying him no attention

in itself was a kind of revenge.

[naomiglover]

A beautiful poem.

I truly hope that the Palestinians can all come together and continue this movement of non-violence. The movement seems to be growing stronger. We're seeing more and more militant groups abandoning violence.

Israel will soon have to abandon its violent nature as well, as they are being heavily pressured internationally, specifically by Jews living abroad.

[ToadBrother]

A beautiful poem.

I truly hope that the Palestinians can all come together and continue this movement of non-violence. The movement seems to be growing stronger. We're seeing more and more militant groups abandoning violence.

Israel will soon have to abandon its violent nature as well, as they are being heavily pressured internationally, specifically by Jews living abroad.

Because Hamas is such a peaceful organization.

[Bonam]

I truly hope that the Palestinians can all come together and continue this movement of non-violence. The movement seems to be growing stronger. We're seeing more and more militant groups abandoning violence.

Yes, non-violence on their part would be significantly more productive than what they've tried so far.

[bloodyminded]

A beautiful poem.

I truly hope that the Palestinians can all come together and continue this movement of non-violence. The movement seems to be growing stronger. We're seeing more and more militant groups abandoning violence.

It can be very effective, but it takes extraordinary dedication. It's a good sign, though, I agree.

Israel will soon have to abandon its violent nature as well, as they are being heavily pressured internationally, specifically by Jews living abroad.

It seems the younger generation, more apt to view themselves as primarily citizens of their birth countries (primarily the US), are more apt to look at Israel with a colder eye. But who knows? Time will tell.

[naomiglover]

Yes, non-violence on their part would be significantly more productive than what they've tried so far.

It used to be that violence was the only answer to violent states and empires. The results were usually the same. You either die or die defending. The effects of World War 2 had far-reaching implications and India's independence set a president in non-violent movement.

It has taken a while, but the world can no longer sit idle, while our governments continue to support a violent state like Israel, while condemning those who are defending their land against them.

The fate of the Zionist government will be the same as that of Apartheid South Africa.

[Jack Weber]

It used to be that violence was the only answer to violent states and empires. The results were usually the same. You either die or die defending. The effects of World War 2 had far-reaching implications and India's independence set a president in non-violent movement.

It has taken a while, but the world can no longer sit idle, while our governments continue to support a violent state like Israel, while condemning those who are defending their land against them.

The fate of the Zionist government will be the same as that of Apartheid South Africa.

Are yuo trying to say that Arab Israeli's along with aparatchiks from Hamas,Hezbollah,and,Islamic Jihad are going to become the dominant force in the Knesset?

Because thereason Aparthied was so abhorrent was not just the obvious racial anlge.It was the tyranny of an opressive minority over an obvious majority.Arabs,and other Muslims, are hardly the majority in Israel...

[naomiglover]

Are yuo trying to say that Arab Israeli's along with aparatchiks from Hamas,Hezbollah,and,Islamic Jihad are going to become the dominant force in the Knesset?

Because thereason Aparthied was so abhorrent was not just the obvious racial anlge.It was the tyranny of an opressive minority over an obvious majority.Arabs,and other Muslims, are hardly the majority in Israel...

It's Israel's stranglehold on the Palestinians on their land. The controlled roads, borders, air and water and the illegal settlements both in the West Bank and East Jerusalem have created discriminatory conditions for Palestinians that the blacks experienced from the Apartheid government.

[bush_cheney2004]

I truly hope that the Palestinians can all come together and continue this movement of non-violence. The movement seems to be growing stronger. We're seeing more and more militant groups abandoning violence.

Hmmmm...I wonder why? Where else in history can we see successful "human rights" movements based on non-violence and civil disobedience? Gee, I wonder why it took so long? Did the PLO win any medals at the '72 Olympics?

[naomiglover]

Hmmmm...I wonder why? Where else in history can we see successful "human rights" movements based on non-violence and civil disobedience? Gee, I wonder why it took so long? Did the PLO win any medals at the '72 Olympics?

You're making it sound like if PLO had not engaged in violence, everything would have been dandy for the Palestinians. Any rational person, would recognize that Israel would continue to annex more land, because that has been their agenda from the very beginning. Israel has never officially accepted a state for the Palestinians. Even the current government has it in their charter, to never allow a Palestinian state. The violence would not have happened if Israel was not annexing land and leaving the Palestinians in the situation they were in. It was to drive the occupier off their land.

PLO's terrorist activities were in the same par as the Jewish terrorist organizations that helped create Israel. Leaders from both sides who used terrorism eventually became the accepted leaders of each state/organization.

[bush_cheney2004]

You're making it sound like if PLO had not engaged in violence, everything would have been dandy for the Palestinians. Any rational person, would recognize that Israel would continue to annex more land, because that has been their agenda from the very beginning.

So what? Annexing land does not in and of itself warrant murder of random Israelis. See your own "Oka Crisis"....an officer died for a golf course.

Israel has never officially accepted a state for the Palestinians. Even the current government has it in their charter, to never allow a Palestinian state. The violence would not have happened if Israel was not annexing land and leaving the Palestinians in the situation they were in. It was to drive the occupier off their land.

This is nonsense...but no need to rehash the obvious continuum and timelines for war(s).

PLO's terrorist activities were in the same par as the Jewish terrorist organizations that helped create Israel. Leaders from both sides who used terrorism eventually became the accepted leaders of each state/organization.

...and guess who won?

[Jack Weber]

It's Israel's stranglehold on the Palestinians on their land. The controlled roads, borders, air and water and the illegal settlements both in the West Bank and East Jerusalem have created discriminatory conditions for Palestinians that the blacks experienced from the Apartheid government.

Yes..But..The fate of that government was the complete reversal of the ethnic make up of the elected officials...

I ask again,is that what you really think is going to happen in the Knesset?

[naomiglover]

So what? Annexing land does not in and of itself warrant murder of random Israelis. See your own "Oka Crisis"....an officer died for a golf course.

It is/was more than just land grabbing. There was also murder of Palestinians, torture, imprisonment, taking away their resources and controlling almost all aspect of their lives.

Your "so what?" reply has no weight.

This is nonsense...but no need to rehash the obvious continuum and timelines for war(s).

What's nonsense?

The fact that the Likud party, to this day, has vowed to never allow a Palestinian state

or

The PLO would not have engaged in violent response to Israel's occupation and treatment of Palestinians, if Israel was not occupying the Palestinians and treating them the way they have been?

...and guess who won?

Nobody has won.

[naomiglover]

Yes..But..The fate of that government was the complete reversal of the ethnic make up of the elected officials...

I ask again,is that what you really think is going to happen in the Knesset?

The fate of the Palestinians is what is at question here.

For the Palestinians to experience freedom and the human rights that they deserve, the Zionist agenda will have to come to an end. The Israeli government would have to change its agenda to accommodate the Palestinian freedom and this will happen.

[bush_cheney2004]

It is/was more than just land grabbing. There was also murder of Palestinians, torture, imprisonment, taking away their resources and controlling almost all aspect of their lives.

What goes around comes around. Your efforts to paint PLO terrorists as mere victims of Israel cannot gain any traction for someone my age.

Your "so what?" reply has no weight.

It wasn't suppose to have any "weight". Do you think that self appointed little 'ol you has such "weight" and "gravitas". You have far less "weight" than a dead Rachel Corrie.

The fact that the Likud party, to this day, has vowed to never allow a Palestinian state

The Likud Party is not the entire Israeli government. Guess what the Bloc Québécois wants?

The PLO would not have engaged in violent response to Israel's occupation and treatment of Palestinians, if Israel was not occupying the Palestinians and treating them the way they have been?

Really...so it really wsn't Sirhan Sirhan that shot Bobby Kennedy?

Edited August 11, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[DogOnPorch]

A poem by a so-called victim whose leadership extends back not only to Nazi Germany but the Central Powers of WW1. Way to pick a side.

[Jack Weber]

The fate of the Palestinians is what is at question here.

For the Palestinians to experience freedom and the human rights that they deserve, the Zionist agenda will have to come to an end. The Israeli government would have to change its agenda to accommodate the Palestinian freedom and this will happen.

Wrong...

You said that the fate of the Zionist state will be the same as that of the Aparthied state...

Your words...

I ask for the 3rd time...

Are you suggesting the ethnic make up of the Knesset will be completely overtirned and run by Islamofascist aparatchiks?Because the enitre legislative make up of South Africa did an almost complete 180 once the Apartheid govenment fell...

[naomiglover]

What goes around comes around. Your efforts to paint PLO terrorists as mere victims of Israel cannot gain any traction for someone my age.

There is no going around. The Palestinians have always had their rights crushed from the beginning.

I did not try to paint the PLO as the victim. I am telling you that the Palestinians have been a victim. A victim of the Zionist agenda and the victim of the supposed Arab friends whose governments prefer the money they receive than standing up for the Palestinians.

It wasn't suppose to have any "weight". Do you think that self appointed little 'ol you has such "weight" and "gravitas". You have far less "weight" than a dead Rachel Corrie.

I am stating facts. I don't care about your opinion and you shouldn't care about my opinion.

The Likud Party is not the entire Israeli government. Guess what the Bloc Québécois wants?

I'll give you one chance to answer; which one of these parties has a prime minister leading a country? A) Likud Bloc Québécois

Really...so it really wsn't Sirhan Sirhan that shot Bobby Kennedy?

He was an individual with his own motive. Much like the Jewish man who killed the prime minister of Israel. Your use of strawman has become quite the habit.

[naomiglover]

Wrong...

You said that the fate of the Zionist state will be the same as that of the Aparthied state...

Your words...

I ask for the 3rd time...

Are you suggesting the ethnic make up of the Knesset will be completely overtirned and run by Islamofascist aparatchiks?Because the enitre legislative make up of South Africa did an almost complete 180 once the Apartheid govenment fell...

If you understood the answer, maybe you would stop asking. I am talking about the ideologies and agendas of the Zionism and Apartheid, which in a lot of ways, are the same.

Zionism will be abolished like Apartheid was.

[bush_cheney2004]

There is no going around. The Palestinians have always had their rights crushed from the beginning.

From the beginning of what? Trans Jordan ?

I did not try to paint the PLO as the victim. I am telling you that the Palestinians have been a victim. A victim of the Zionist agenda and the victim of the supposed Arab friends whose governments prefer the money they receive than standing up for the Palestinians.

The Palestinians also receive "money"....their leadership pissed it away....must suck for them.

I am stating facts. I don't care about your opinion and you shouldn't care about my opinion.

Do it for Rachel! Do it for Rachel! (sobbing)

I'll give you one chance to answer; which one of these parties has a prime minister leading a country? A) Likud Bloc Québécois

Hamas?

He was an individual with his own motive. Much like the Jewish man who killed the prime minister of Israel. Your use of strawman has become quite the habit.

No! You blasphemer! Sirhan was a PLO Patriot and hero to his "country". (tee-hee-hee)

[naomiglover]

From the beginning of what? Trans Jordan ?

From when the European Jews decided to colonize their land.

The Palestinians also receive "money"....their leadership pissed it away....must suck for them.

You have very little attention span. You keep going off on tangents. Like somehow the drops Abbas receives has anything to do with Egypt's part in the blockade.

Do it for Rachel! Do it for Rachel! (sobbing)

That's good. Don't be shy about displaying your ugly character.

Hamas?

Another non-answer from Strawman Joe?

No! You blasphemer! Sirhan was a PLO Patriot and hero to his "country". (tee-hee-hee)

That's from your version. I'm sure many right wing, extremist Zionists were cheering when Rabin was killed. Did you cheer for his death like you cheer for Rachel Corrie's death?

[bush_cheney2004]

From when the European Jews decided to colonize their land.

You mean...ummmm...like Canadians decided to colonize native land...like that?

You have very little attention span. You keep going off on tangents. Like somehow the drops Abbas receives has anything to do with Egypt's part in the blockade.

Yes...yes...yes...I am inattentive and you are a focused, but one trick pony.

That's good. Don't be shy about displaying your ugly character.

The uglier the better....reality sucks that way.

Another non-answer from Strawman Joe?

You don't get to tell me my choices for answers...fascist!

That's from your version. I'm sure many right wing, extremist Zionists were cheering when Rabin was killed. Did you cheer for his death like you cheer for Rachel Corrie's death?

No....it messed up my Monday Night Football game...same as John Lennon.

[Jack Weber]

If you understood the answer, maybe you would stop asking. I am talking about the ideologies and agendas of the Zionism and Apartheid, which in a lot of ways, are the same.

Zionism will be abolished like Apartheid was.

OK...Great...

What happens after this wonderful moment takes place?

For the 4th time...

Are you suggesting that the majority of the seats of the Knesset will be occupied by Israeli Arabs and the firends of Hamas???

Because I don't see alot of Muslims and/or Arabs really interested in being part of a democratic body,do you?

[dre]

OK...Great...

What happens after this wonderful moment takes place?

For the 4th time...

Are you suggesting that the majority of the seats of the Knesset will be occupied by Israeli Arabs and the firends of Hamas???

Because I don't see alot of Muslims and/or Arabs really interested in being part of a democratic body,do you?

Actually plenty of Arabs are interested in Israeli politics.

Afu Agbaria

Hamad Amar Yisrael Beiteinu

Mohammad Barakeh

Taleb el-Sana

Bedouin

Masud Ghnaim

Ayoob Kara

Raleb Majadele

Said Nafa

Ibrahim Sarsur

Hana Sweid Hadash

Ahmad Tibi

Majalli Wahabi

Jamal Zahalka

Haneen Zoubi

Are you suggesting that the majority of the seats of the Knesset will be occupied by Israeli Arabs and the firends of Hamas???

Yes thats almost a certainty, the state will only remain Jewish majority for a few more decades. After that you would expect the demographics in the knesset to change with the rest of the country.

Muslims in Israel have the highest birthrate of any group: 4.0 children per woman, as opposed to 2.7 for Jewish Israelis, a natural reproduction rate of 3% compared to 1.5%

Edited August 12, 2010 by dre

[Jack Weber]

Actually plenty of Arabs are interested in Israeli politics.

Afu Agbaria

Hamad Amar Yisrael Beiteinu

Mohammad Barakeh

Taleb el-Sana

Bedouin

Masud Ghnaim

Ayoob Kara

Raleb Majadele

Said Nafa

Ibrahim Sarsur

Hana Sweid Hadash

Ahmad Tibi

Majalli Wahabi

Jamal Zahalka

Haneen Zoubi

Yes thats almost a certainty, the state will only remain Jewish majority for a few more decades. After that you would expect the demographics in the knesset to change with the rest of the country.

Muslims in Israel have the highest birthrate of any group: 4.0 children per woman, as opposed to 2.7 for Jewish Israelis, a natural reproduction rate of 3% compared to 1.5%

OK...So,longterm...Over...say...the next 3 to 4 decades the Knesset will look more like the actual ethnic demographics of Israel.I could see that...

Perhaps...But Hamas,and their "Kill the Jews" friends???

Edited August 12, 2010 by Jack Weber