Is Stephen Harper one of the most powerful men in the world

[PIK]

I disagree. Everything good taht you've said, economists argue has happened in spite of government policy, not because of it. We have the most secretive and partisan government in history and I want it replaced ASAP.

Agree to disagree I guess.

You can't be serious, Harper is a boyscout compared to chretien, so it is alright for chretien to be secretive ,it is alright for chretien to choke a protester, (just imagine if harper just said frig off to one)and of course ordering police to pepper spray peacefull protesters. Liberal do have short memories.

[Smallc]

You can't be serious, Harper is a boyscout compared to chretien,

Pfft, right....

[nicky10013]

You can't be serious, Harper is a boyscout compared to chretien, so it is alright for chretien to be secretive ,it is alright for chretien to choke a protester, (just imagine if harper just said frig off to one)and of course ordering police to pepper spray peacefull protesters. Liberal do have short memories.

I never said that and I disagree with all of those things. I think we need a far more open and accountable government. We need to learn from both Liberal and Conservative examples.

Even then, you can't just say "well they did it, so can we." That's not how it works. It's a cop out and a cop out thats been used for 4 years.

[ToadBrother]

I disagree. Everything good taht you've said, economists argue has happened in spite of government policy, not because of it.

I can't think of too many economists that came out and said that. The only thing that really concerned them was the stimulus spending, but you can't blame Harper for that one, that was as much as anything else what the Opposition forced on the Government.

We have the most secretive and partisan government in history and I want it replaced ASAP.

Agree to disagree I guess.

That may be true, but the polls still indicate despite your arguments, and despite my misgivings about Harper and certain senior Tory cabinet ministers, that if we were to have an election tomorrow, we'd come back with a near-identical Parliament. An election simply to move a few deck chairs around, but have the ship under the same captain is wasteful. It's very clear that Canadians do not want an election.

And let's be fair here. Despite some unconstitutional claims like "We have executive privilege", there hasn't been a government in a generation that has had Parliament wielding so much control over it. I actually prefer this situation to one where we have a majority government that commands Parliament, and thus almost any action is constitutional.

Edited July 30, 2010 by ToadBrother

[nicky10013]

I can't think of too many economists that came out and said that. The only thing that really concerned them was the stimulus spending, but you can't blame Harper for that one, that was as much as anything else what the Opposition forced on the Government.

Really? The only fiscal policy to speak of from this government of economic managers has been tax cuts which put us into deficit before the recession and the stimulus package. The stiumuls package was needed at the time, yet most economists argue that it had absolutely nothing to do with the recovery. Indeed, that seems to be the case considering the fact that a good chunk still hasn't been spent and is scheduled for 2011 when it was meant for this year.

That may be true, but the polls still indicate despite your arguments, and despite my misgivings about Harper and certain senior Tory cabinet ministers, that if we were to have an election tomorrow, we'd come back with a near-identical Parliament. An election simply to move a few deck chairs around, but have the ship under the same captain is wasteful. It's very clear that Canadians do not want an election.

And let's be fair here. Despite some unconstitutional claims like "We have executive privilege", there hasn't been a government in a generation that has had Parliament wielding so much control over it. I actually prefer this situation to one where we have a majority government that commands Parliament, and thus almost any action is constitutional.

Chretien and Harper were both elected from the position of being back in the polls. The real movement happens during the writ.

[capricorn]

The only fiscal policy to speak of from this government of economic managers has been tax cuts which put us into deficit before the recession and the stimulus package. The stiumuls package was needed at the time, yet most economists argue that it had absolutely nothing to do with the recovery.

Canadian opposition leader Michael Ignatieff said it’s too early to “shut the door” on additional economic stimulus as new spending measures may be needed to fuel the recovery.

---

“We’re not sure the economic recovery is stable,” Ignatieff, 63, said in an interview in Toronto yesterday. “We’re going to have to make judgments about whether stimulus may be necessary” next year.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-07-30/ignatieff-says-it-s-too-soon-to-shut-the-door-on-more-canada-stimulus.html

Looks like Ignatieff thinks the recovery is fragile and if elected he might spend additional stimulus money. Just what Canadians want. More spending.

[nicky10013]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-07-30/ignatieff-says-it-s-too-soon-to-shut-the-door-on-more-canada-stimulus.html

Looks like Ignatieff thinks the recovery is fragile and if elected he might spend additional stimulus money. Just what Canadians want. More spending.

It is fragile. Anyone who thinks otherwise shouldn't be allowed anywhere near fiscal policy. This is the "We won't be dragged down into recession part 2" routine from the Conservative lap dogs.

[ToadBrother]

Really? The only fiscal policy to speak of from this government of economic managers has been tax cuts which put us into deficit before the recession and the stimulus package. The stiumuls package was needed at the time, yet most economists argue that it had absolutely nothing to do with the recovery. Indeed, that seems to be the case considering the fact that a good chunk still hasn't been spent and is scheduled for 2011 when it was meant for this year.

I had forgotten about the GST drop. That was stupid. But again the stimulus was not so much a Tory idea as a Parliamentary one. As I recall, there were times when Layton and Iggy were almost arguing for more spending, particularly so far as EI. I have not seen anywhere save perhaps with the left-wing think tanks any major reaction to the Tories has been outright negative.

Chretien and Harper were both elected from the position of being back in the polls. The real movement happens during the writ.

And under normal circumstances I would agree, but thus far, since the Tories first took power from the Martin Liberals, the movement has changed so little. I know those like yourself clamoring for an election have this faith that somehow things will end up differently, but I see absolute no evidence of it.

[ToadBrother]

It is fragile. Anyone who thinks otherwise shouldn't be allowed anywhere near fiscal policy. This is the "We won't be dragged down into recession part 2" routine from the Conservative lap dogs.

Are you actually arguing that we should open the taps again, without any real indication of whether there will be another recession? Thus far, even the meltdown of the southern European economies hasn't shown sufficient evidence of taking the EU into a tailspin. Wouldn't the prudent thing to do be to wait and determine which way the wind is blowing? I mean, when we spend money we don't have, we have to pay it back, and I'd prefer not to raise deficits, and ultimately debt, any more than is necessary. Certainly not because maybe possibly there might a second dip.

[nicky10013]

I had forgotten about the GST drop. That was stupid. But again the stimulus was not so much a Tory idea as a Parliamentary one. As I recall, there were times when Layton and Iggy were almost arguing for more spending, particularly so far as EI. I have not seen anywhere save perhaps with the left-wing think tanks any major reaction to the Tories has been outright negative.

It was a Liberal idea but it wasn't a Liberal idea never to implement it, and when they did, dole it out like pork instead of what it actually was supposed to be: stimulus. I did some volunteering with Gerard Kennedy's office tracking stimulus spending. 6 months after the program had been announced, 92% hadn't recieved money. Considering what was needed, they failed spectacularly.

And under normal circumstances I would agree, but thus far, since the Tories first took power from the Martin Liberals, the movement has changed so little. I know those like yourself clamoring for an election have this faith that somehow things will end up differently, but I see absolute no evidence of it.

If you go back, the absolute exact same thing was said about Chretien and Harper.

[capricorn]

'Powerful' is too strong, the Canadian economy is too small now and will always be too small for the PM to be a major global player.

But it is undeniable that the Canadian economy has weathered the storm better than most, and that Harper is pretty influential internationally as a result. It is debatable whether all the credit should go to him, but he is looking good externally.

That in itself is funny, as a major criticism when he became leader, then PM, was his lack of international presence and knowledge. That has changed.

I was researching something and came across an item that pretty well substantiates what you said.

A former top foreign affairs bureaucrat recently described Harper as "incurious about the world" when he became prime minister in 2006. Now, on the eve of the historic summits, the same bureaucrat says Harper has become a master of summit politics. Harper himself said the success of the G20 may be a more significant policy development for Canada than the Afghanistan mission.

http://www.stthomastimesjournal.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2636424

With this new found knowledge and experience under his belt, Harper may be better prepared to go head to head with Ignatieff's international credentials on related issues. No doubt this will manifest itself in a future election campaign.

[msdogfood]

After all the crap about a burning police car in TO is over ,what I remember is european leaders and the most powerful man in world,obama himself came here with the notion of a bank tax and more spending,untill our own PM said no and changed the minds of most of these people.So who is the man the euros are looking to for guidance, I will give you one hint, it is not obama.

Not at all

The USA does not care about us at all!!

[Topaz]

I don't think most Canadians would agree with that statement. As far as the G20, I think most of Canadians, at least, for this G20 summit,it was nothing, but a waste of tax dollars and a pain in the rear for Torontonians, who had to leave the city or stay in their homes. The war IS something Canadians care about and the Canadians that are dead and have been injured for life. I care more about the people losing their lives in Afghansitan than wondering if Harper is a success in the world. Harper will go on to other things, while these troops try to survive a war and life later.

[Oleg Bach]

The best personal security for a high ranking leader is non-existence..Whether it be an Obama or a Harper or even a Putin for that matter- those that are in the public eye are just that.....front guys - real power is held in the hands of the very quite and very discrete..whether it be a singular person or a committee.....those in control are not in a state of lust for fame and notoriety...they lay low and lead by following - In other words they herd the population..much like a shepard....Harper is a common guy who like Obama likes the spot light and does whatt he is told..and they do it well - even people like Hitler took acting lessons and was controlled by others...in the end - no one will know who was really running the show...

[Argus]

After all the crap about a burning police car in TO is over ,what I remember is european leaders and the most powerful man in world,obama himself came here with the notion of a bank tax and more spending,untill our own PM said no and changed the minds of most of these people.So who is the man the euros are looking to for guidance, I will give you one hint, it is not obama.

These are the most powerful people in the world, and Harper is not on the list.

Link

Edited July 31, 2010 by Argus

[nicky10013]

These are the most powerful people in the world, and Harper is not on the list.

Link

Cynicism is easy to swallow. Unfortunately, just to say someone is rich and therefore more powerful than the president of the US, Russia, or China, or even the PM of Canada is folley.

In the end, despite it not being smart, these leaders have the ability to tax these billionaires into the stoneage. Indeed, the most power billionaires in Russia are behind bars.

[Argus]

Cynicism is easy to swallow. Unfortunately, just to say someone is rich and therefore more powerful than the president of the US, Russia, or China, or even the PM of Canada is folley.

In the end, despite it not being smart, these leaders have the ability to tax these billionaires into the stoneage. Indeed, the most power billionaires in Russia are behind bars.

Most politicians are owned by the rich, and are unlikely to turn on them. Most all billionaires in Russia got that way because of corruption, and richest of them all is Putin - you just don't see his wealth being reported much. He may be one of the world's wealthiest billionaires. Estimates of the fortune he has stashed in foreign countries run to around $40 billion.

Putin's fortune

Edited August 2, 2010 by Argus

[fellowtraveller]

I was researching something and came across an item that pretty well substantiates what you said.

Quote

A former top foreign affairs bureaucrat recently described Harper as "incurious about the world" when he became prime minister in 2006. Now, on the eve of the historic summits, the same bureaucrat says Harper has become a master of summit politics. Harper himself said the success of the G20 may be a more significant policy development for Canada than the Afghanistan mission.

http://www.stthomast....aspx?e=2636424

With this new found knowledge and experience under his belt, Harper may be better prepared to go head to head with Ignatieff's international credentials on related issues. No doubt this will manifest itself in a future election campaign.

Yep.

Harper has feasted on and continues to dine on those that underestimate how quickly he learns.... His greatest failing is one he shares with Trudeau: hubris and ago.

[PIK]

I don't think most Canadians would agree with that statement. As far as the G20, I think most of Canadians, at least, for this G20 summit,it was nothing, but a waste of tax dollars and a pain in the rear for Torontonians, who had to leave the city or stay in their homes. The war IS something Canadians care about and the Canadians that are dead and have been injured for life. I care more about the people losing their lives in Afghansitan than wondering if Harper is a success in the world. Harper will go on to other things, while these troops try to survive a war and life later.

And so does harper that is why he gave them the proper equiptment, instead of patrolling in the itulis jeep. And now that we have chinooks , less have to travel the roads.

[nicky10013]

And so does harper that is why he gave them the proper equiptment, instead of patrolling in the itulis jeep. And now that we have chinooks , less have to travel the roads.

Uhhh, it was the Liberals that replaced the iiltis jeeps.