Liberals oppose any reform to refugee handling

[Argus]

Since August, Jason Kenney has been working with Liberal immigration critic, Maurizio Bevilacqua on a bill to reform our atrocious refugee determination system. Unlike on many other bills, the Conservatives have actually been willing to make compromises, to accept Liberal suggestions for amendments and incorporate them into the bill. Now, just as the bill was about to be voted on by the committee it's been withdrawn due to a revolt in the Liberal Party.

Why the revolt? Politics. The only real support the Liberal party has today is among francophones, immigrants and gays. The Liberals are terrified of doing anything which might upset one of their primary constituencies. Regardless of whether it's best for Canada.

Then again, the Liberal party has never been willing to put the best interests of Canada ahead of it's own. The mere suggestion is inconceivable.

According to John Ivison, a lot of Liberals are demanding the party propose poison pill amendments - ones that the Conservatives will surely not be able to accept. Cooperation is apparently not considered as helpful as big nasty fights where nothing gets accomplished.

John Ivison

Now we have this, showing a revolt from Liberal MPs, primarily Quebec MPs, which is a real joke because while Quebecers love to make noble sounds about immigration, they take fewer immigrants, per capita than any other province, and their primary interest is that the immigrants speak French. So while Quebec MPs will ardently defend the necessity of allowing massive numbers of phoney refugees into Canada - they won't allow them into Quebec, unless they speak French.

Ignatieff Backs off Bipartisan Refugee Deal

[lictor616]

Since August, Jason Kenney has been working with Liberal immigration critic, Maurizio Bevilacqua on a bill to reform our atrocious refugee determination system. Unlike on many other bills, the Conservatives have actually been willing to make compromises, to accept Liberal suggestions for amendments and incorporate them into the bill. Now, just as the bill was about to be voted on by the committee it's been withdrawn due to a revolt in the Liberal Party.

Why the revolt? Politics. The only real support the Liberal party has today is among francophones, immigrants and gays. The Liberals are terrified of doing anything which might upset one of their primary constituencies. Regardless of whether it's best for Canada.

Then again, the Liberal party has never been willing to put the best interests of Canada ahead of it's own. The mere suggestion is inconceivable.

According to John Ivison, a lot of Liberals are demanding the party propose poison pill amendments - ones that the Conservatives will surely not be able to accept. Cooperation is apparently not considered as helpful as big nasty fights where nothing gets accomplished.

John Ivison

Now we have this, showing a revolt from Liberal MPs, primarily Quebec MPs, which is a real joke because while Quebecers love to make noble sounds about immigration, they take fewer immigrants, per capita than any other province, and their primary interest is that the immigrants speak French. So while Quebec MPs will ardently defend the necessity of allowing massive numbers of phoney refugees into Canada - they won't allow them into Quebec, unless they speak French.

Ignatieff Backs off Bipartisan Refugee Deal

to state the painfully obvious:

The "inevitable disease" of party politics is advancing in to its terminal stage i'm afraid, parties in canada have long since stopped caring about party or principle, their concern is to get elected.

What is more important is the media (which makes up the minds of most lemmings in canada). As long as the media can make immigrants fashionable... the lemmings will follow. What is encouraging is that conservatives, despite lacking media support are miraculously popular... probably because we have long since passed the point at which anyone with half a brain could look at the squalor of "diverse" areas such as Mississauga, the GTA, Montreal Nord and still not mind the stench and degradation, the negative effects of third world immigration are far too noticeable (despite being hushed up and made excuses for by our kept press), eventually (if current trends persists and sharia law is given royal ascent in the name of "tolerance") even the most feminist or homosexual left wing irreconcilable will vote against the cancer that is the Liberal party of canada.

the sooner the better, but I think that the best way from here to there is: MORE liberal policies... let the liberals rule for the next 10 years... till our cities look like festering jungles with howling savages mauling, killing, beating and raping ordinary canadians-

I'm afraid that only way to break the mass media's spell on the mouth breathing liberal masses: is physical suffering- and that (if current immigration rates persist) they will surely receive.

[Michael Hardner]

Lictor, the outrage and race riots are in your mind only.

We haven't seen the Conservatives reducing the immigration numbers have we ? The reasons behind our immigration policies are primarily economic and our current government's steady hand on this policy is evidence of that.

[lictor616]

to state the painfully obvious:

The "inevitable disease" of party politics is advancing in to its terminal stage i'm afraid, parties in canada have long since stopped caring about party or principle, their concern is to get elected.

What is more important is the media (which makes up the minds of most lemmings in canada). As long as the media can make immigrants fashionable... the lemmings will follow. What is encouraging is that conservatives, despite lacking media support are miraculously popular... probably because we have long since passed the point at which anyone with half a brain could look at the squalor of "diverse" areas such as Mississauga, the GTA, Montreal Nord and still not mind the stench and degradation, the negative effects of third world immigration are far too noticeable (despite being hushed up and made excuses for by our kept press), eventually (if current trends persists and sharia law is given royal ascent in the name of "tolerance") even the most feminist or homosexual left wing irreconcilable will vote against the cancer that is the Liberal party of canada.

the sooner the better, but I think that the best way from here to there is: MORE liberal policies... let the liberals rule for the next 10 years... till our cities look like festering jungles with howling savages mauling, killing, beating and raping ordinary canadians-

I'm afraid that only way to break the mass media's spell on the mouth breathing liberal masses: is physical suffering- and that (if current immigration rates persist) they will surely receive.

or to put it less succinctly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjqU3EMPJFo

before this becomes downtown taranta:

http://www.lanzarote.com/es/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/haiti.jpg

[Michael Hardner]

or to put it less succinctly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjqU3EMPJFo

I'm not that familiar with the show, but from the comments underneath the video:

Do you really think the creators of South Park really thinks there's too much minorities?? Damn Cartman is stupid, that's why he is funny! Evevrybody must thinks he's stupid, not think like him. Damn this is just a JOKE , a Parody!

[lictor616]

Lictor, the outrage and race riots are in your mind only.

We haven't seen the Conservatives reducing the immigration numbers have we ? The reasons behind our immigration policies are primarily economic and our current government's steady hand on this policy is evidence of that.

No its just that the media doesn't report the outrage: because it would create the impression that other Canadians resented third world immigration: which would create much more resentment in turn. The media knows that people are lemmings that follow public opinion (despite what their feelings are)... most people desperately want to be thought of as politically correct and like everybody else. Read Jacques Ellul or Edward Bernays on the subject of propaganda... its an eye opener.

Yes conservatives have limited immigration as much as possible. They cannot act too aggressively because the media will make mince meat of them and call them the usual names: bigot, nazi, KKK white supremacist etc ... you know the litany well don't you Hardner... you yourself use it often.

There is no pretense anymore that canada NEEDS strawberry pickers and more welfare class... which is precisely what they get when they import uneducated third worlders. That is an old liberal lie- third world immigrants (especially non-asian third worlders) bleed canadian taxes... far from providing a benefit: they end up COSTING the country. Already out of the so-called "skilled workers" we receive form the third world: 38% are unemployed.

The Fraser Institute has studied this issue claims that the immigrants who arrived between 1990 and 2002 cost governments $18.3 billion per annum (as of 2002) in excess of taxes raised from those immigrants, relating to universal social services (e.g., welfare, medicare, public education). http://www.fraserinstitute.org/COMMERCE.WEB/product_files/Immigration.pdf

and we're not even factoring in the other costs in BILLIONS, in anti racism ad campaigns, positive reinforcement in the schools, policing, the thousands of spurious anti discrimination organisations... the costs of integrating minorities are immense and not at all worth it if we are to judge by how well "integrated" our third worlders are, with kirpans in our schools, turbans in the RCMP.

Yolande James, the insane dusky hued imbecile that for some inexplicable reason is permitted to hold public office in quebec (I bet it has something to do with her color)- is out there making lumpy throated promises to accommodate tens of thousands of new Haitians, and that anyone who disagrees MUST be a racist. The conservative minister of immigration revealed that since many prisons had been damaged and records keeping was a disaster in Haiti: there'd be no way to know if canada's was admitting criminals that should be in jail in Haiti under James's plan to import new immigrants, which shows that conservatives (while far from perfect)understand that immigration has to be reformed.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/editorials/the-rush-to-redefine-family/article1439900/

[lictor616]

I'm not that familiar with the show, but from the comments underneath the video:

youtube comments are worth smoething now? well then howabout this one (second most popular btw):

holedinone

4 months ago 19

"To true"

[lictor616]

Lictor, the outrage and race riots are in your mind only.

even the terminally liberal Adam Carolla: can oppose immigration:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgj_KKATMAM

[Argus]

Lictor, the outrage and race riots are in your mind only.

Now, yes, but who is to say what the future holds. It seems that whenever someone does predict that masses of newcomers coming into a country and not integrating can lead to trouble they get shouted down and pilloried. Yet they are not always wrong, are they?

The man who predicted the race riots

Enoch Powell

We haven't seen the Conservatives reducing the immigration numbers have we ? The reasons behind our immigration policies are primarily economic and our current government's steady hand on this policy is evidence of that.

No, like everything else, Harper has decided pragmatism is more important. Any move to reduce immigration would be eagerly greeted by the Left, which would use it to reinforce their own support in the immigrant community. Harper has clearly decided he will try to get support among immigrants, too, rather than do what is best for Canada. At least, though, he is trying to reform immigration where he can. There is no evidence, btw, that immigration has ANY positive economic effect, and some evidence to the contrary.

[lictor616]

Now, yes, but who is to say what the future holds. It seems that whenever someone does predict that masses of newcomers coming into a country and not integrating can lead to trouble they get shouted down and pilloried. Yet they are not always wrong, are they?

The man who predicted the race riots

Enoch Powell

No, like everything else, Harper has decided pragmatism is more important. Any move to reduce immigration would be eagerly greeted by the Left, which would use it to reinforce their own support in the immigrant community. Harper has clearly decided he will try to get support among immigrants, too, rather than do what is best for Canada. At least, though, he is trying to reform immigration where he can. There is no evidence, btw, that immigration has ANY positive economic effect, and some evidence to the contrary.

Prophetic Powell:

"We must be mad, literally mad, as a nation to be permitting the annual inflow of some 50,000 dependants, who are for the most part the material of the future growth of the immigrant descended population. It is like watching a nation busily engaged in heaping up its own funeral pyre. So insane are we that we actually permit unmarried persons to immigrate for the purpose of founding a family with spouses and fiancées whom they have never seen".

Britons didn't act in 1968, and today, Little Britain is becoming a failed state, its metropolis London is a disagreeable, dangerous place to be. Furthermore, "racial taunts" are crimes which can land you 5 years in jail in England.

So if Powell was to visit the multi-racial sewer that was once a civilized land and the cynosure of the Western world today, and if he were to enter a pub, some of the patrons in the establishment would be sure to be disguised Chief Inspectors from Scotland Yard, eavesdropping on conversations in the hope of trapping some nasty racist in the very act, of making an unkind and possibly pejorative remark about the minorities that are rotting away what is left of Britain.

And if, as would be likely, after he would be mugged, beaten, and perhaps mutilated as he left the pub, he would have to use maximum caution and not let the police hear him complain, for that might lead to a criminal charge that he disapproves of "civil rights" for savages.

http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00642/news-graphics-2007-_642613a.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1560074/Revealed-170-gangs-on-streets-of-London.html&usg=__0Sz5MF7XZIns7T0E8sMXl2DsY24=&h=385&w=300&sz=33&hl=en&start=5&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=_calCZhcgr5DLM:&tbnh=123&tbnw=96&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dlondon%2Bgangs%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26tbs%3Disch:1

Edited June 5, 2010 by lictor616

[Michael Hardner]

No, like everything else, Harper has decided pragmatism is more important. Any move to reduce immigration would be eagerly greeted by the Left, which would use it to reinforce their own support in the immigrant community. Harper has clearly decided he will try to get support among immigrants, too, rather than do what is best for Canada. At least, though, he is trying to reform immigration where he can. There is no evidence, btw, that immigration has ANY positive economic effect, and some evidence to the contrary.

I don't buy the argument that he's afraid to do it. Let's see if he does it when he has a majority. As with the US, the position of the right on immigration and cheap labour is, how can we put it, 'nuanced'.

[lictor616]

I don't buy the argument that he's afraid to do it. Let's see if he does it when he has a majority. As with the US, the position of the right on immigration and cheap labour is, how can we put it, 'nuanced'.

Have you seen the torrent of abuse dealt by the media to opposers of immigration? You really don't realize the power of persecution that the media has, an accusation of racism is political suicide here.

The position on the right? You mean on elite CEO's of Walmart who lobby for illegal immigration in the US because it provides them with cheap, eminently dispensable human capital. How is that a position of the "right wing"?

Unless you view the no child left behind act, spendthrift pro socialist admin of Bush... but that's neither right wing nor conservative.

Cheap labor for certain companies (walmart, homehardware etc) but EXPENSIVE for tax payers... you ware the ones who have to surrender tax money to educate, police, integrate, give them healthcare, housing, welfare etc.

you really are clueless aren't you!

[Jack Weber]

to state the painfully obvious:

The "inevitable disease" of party politics is advancing in to its terminal stage i'm afraid, parties in canada have long since stopped caring about party or principle, their concern is to get elected.

What is more important is the media (which makes up the minds of most lemmings in canada). As long as the media can make immigrants fashionable... the lemmings will follow. What is encouraging is that conservatives, despite lacking media support are miraculously popular... probably because we have long since passed the point at which anyone with half a brain could look at the squalor of "diverse" areas such as Mississauga, the GTA, Montreal Nord and still not mind the stench and degradation, the negative effects of third world immigration are far too noticeable (despite being hushed up and made excuses for by our kept press), eventually (if current trends persists and sharia law is given royal ascent in the name of "tolerance") even the most feminist or homosexual left wing irreconcilable will vote against the cancer that is the Liberal party of canada.

the sooner the better, but I think that the best way from here to there is: MORE liberal policies... let the liberals rule for the next 10 years... till our cities look like festering jungles with howling savages mauling, killing, beating and raping ordinary canadians-

I'm afraid that only way to break the mass media's spell on the mouth breathing liberal masses: is physical suffering- and that (if current immigration rates persist) they will surely receive.

Lictor...

What is your opinion on the Tulsa race riots of May 30 and 31,1921?

[lictor616]

Lictor...

What is your opinion on the Tulsa race riots of May 30 and 31,1921?

Weber,

What is your opinion on the nathan's hot dog eating contest 2008 results?

as long as we're all over the place.

[Jack Weber]

Lictor,I think Kobyashi's overrated!!

Joey Chestnut rules the roost!

But,I digress...

You made a comment about the "howling savages mauling" and "Third World" behavior and the like...

I was wondering what you thought of the race riots of Tulsa,Oklahoma in 1921?

I assume you're familiar with them?

Edited June 5, 2010 by Jack Weber

[lictor616]

Lictor,I think Kobyashi's overrated!!

Joey Chestnut rules the roost!

But,I digress...

You made a comment about the "howling savages mauling" and "Third World" behavior and the like...

I was wondering what you thought of the race riots of Tulsa,Oklahoma in 1921?

I assume you're familiar with them?

really you<re moving on to a riot i'm half aware of when there all this stuff still left on your plate?

Tulsa riots? I can't be bothered sorry,

[Argus]

You made a comment about the "howling savages mauling" and "Third World" behavior and the like...

I was wondering what you thought of the race riots of Tulsa,Oklahoma in 1921?

I assume you're familiar with them?

I'm not at all familiar with them, but without investigating at all I would suggest to you that most of us would agree our society was considerably less sophisticated, its people more prone to hatred and violence directed at outsiders, particularly racial outsiders, than they are 90 years later. But I would also suggest to you that simply because our people were more socially primitive a century ago that does not give us cause to say we shouldn't worry about importing people from more socially primitive cultures today - by the million.

[Michael Hardner]

The position on the right? You mean on elite CEO's of Walmart who lobby for illegal immigration in the US because it provides them with cheap, eminently dispensable human capital. How is that a position of the "right wing"?

Unless you view the no child left behind act, spendthrift pro socialist admin of Bush... but that's neither right wing nor conservative.

Cheap labor for certain companies (walmart, homehardware etc) but EXPENSIVE for tax payers... you ware the ones who have to surrender tax money to educate, police, integrate, give them healthcare, housing, welfare etc.

you really are clueless aren't you!

It's a position of the right wing, because business is generally right.

Clueless ? You just supported my argument, so...

[William Ashley]

While I do think there needs to be reforms to immigration the proposed changes are inane. First off depriving any national of a given country rights within the system is backward. Personally i think if anything our "friends and allies" shouldn't be deprived rights just because they are from nations we are allied with. Eg. If someone in the US is threatened by their government, just because they are from an allied country, they shouldn't be denied the same rights as a gay person from Saudi Arabia.

Realistic and reasonable reforms might however be-

-expidited processing for a set fee

-expididted immigration allowance for underserviced areas

-expidited process for indenture eg. working in the government service in underserviced areas

-arranged cases for expidited process eg. both parties agree to set court dates. Material facts should be presentable in one hearing. Appeals and requests of mandamus should be available only to the "actual courts" for reasons of mal performance of duties. Refiling of requests should be allowed. Judges should have to give rulings with legitimate reasons - factual reasons, not based on assumptions or hearsay.

-individuals who are held ought to be required to work while being held if a refugee claimant.

-individuals should be deported immediately on request and provision of means of deportation.

-visa violations should be able to remedied by payment of a fine or indenture, if there is no other reason to disallow.

-individuals illegally working should be able to pay a fine for extension permit for example for 1 month or a number of months at a nominal rate, if the person employing them illegally approves of the continuance of employment.

-individuals illegally in the country should be able to pay a fee or indenture and obtain allowance if they are non disruptive

--------------------------

The conservatives proposal really doesn't get to the heart of it.

Edited June 6, 2010 by William Ashley

[Michael Hardner]

-individuals who are held ought to be required to work while being held if a refugee claimant.

How would you require them to work ?

[dre]

Then again, the Liberal party has never been willing to put the best interests of Canada ahead of it's own. The mere suggestion is inconceivable.

Thats a silly and redundant statement. You could say the same about any mainstream political party.

[Argus]

Realistic and reasonable reforms might however be-

-expidited processing for a set fee

-expididted immigration allowance for underserviced areas

-expidited process for indenture eg. working in the government service in underserviced areas

-arranged cases for expidited process eg. both parties agree to set court dates. Material facts should be presentable in one hearing. Appeals and requests of mandamus should be available only to the "actual courts" for reasons of mal performance of duties. Refiling of requests should be allowed. Judges should have to give rulings with legitimate reasons - factual reasons, not based on assumptions or hearsay.

In other words, you think our refugee determination system is unbearably harsh, strict and cruel and want to soften it up and make it easier for anyone from anywhere to claim refugee status and become Canadian citizens for any reason whatsoever. And you want their claims processed much faster, because you feel refugees aren't coming into Canada fast enough. Also, you want us to provide them with jobs because, apparently, their lack of skills, combined with illiteracy and inability to speak English has caused employers to "discriminate" against them.

No thanks.

Edited June 6, 2010 by Argus

[Argus]

Thats a silly and redundant statement. You could say the same about any mainstream political party.

I think the Conservatives have brought forward and supported a number of policies which went against the best interests of their political fortunes. They did so because they felt these were best for Canada - not for their political interests. The Liberals have never seemed to care what's best for Canada.

[dre]

I think the Conservatives have brought forward and supported a number of policies which went against the best interests of their political fortunes. They did so because they felt these were best for Canada - not for their political interests. The Liberals have never seemed to care what's best for Canada.

Thats just pure partisan hackery.

[Argus]

Thats just pure partisan hackery.

I'm not partisan. To be partisan I'd have to be a Conservative. If you actually examine my postings with regard to federal politics I think you'll find it's not so much that I'm in love with the Tories as that I'm in hate with the Liberals. :-)