skikdi Posted June 3, 2010 Report Posted June 3, 2010 Canada's integrity is intact, Palestine however, never had any to begin with. If the "Palestinians" quit attacking Israel and attempting to annihilate them by bringing in munitions with which to do it with, a blockade wouldn't be necessary. Israel is provoked, Israel responds to such provocations but in the end you people always chastise Israel. For those who wish to end the continued existence of a sovereign Jewish state on the shores of the Mediterranean, there is only one cause worth caring about: breaking the limited blockade that both Israel and Egypt have placed on Hamas-ruled Gaza. No one in Gaza is starving. All are fed by a United Nations and Israel. http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=113 Poor poor post. I myself am a Muslim and I understand that pride and hatred are the only things standing in the way of prosperity for both nations. Israel didnt 'respond to provocation', they overreacted with disproportionate force. Something that theyve been attributed with. I have no respect for a state that can carry out a sustained attack on a helpless strip of land like they did in early 2009. They are the ones with no integrity and if Canada is willing to still blindly support them, then Im sorry but we also have no integrity. Quote
M.Dancer Posted June 3, 2010 Report Posted June 3, 2010 They had no right being on that vessel on the first place. It a hundred miles from shore, their jurisdiction stretches 3 nautical miles from Gaza. Therefore them boarding a foreign vessel on international waters with arms is a clear act of piracy. Thats where they broke international law and you cant justify it. So in other words, you don't know what law it is they are breaking, but you are darn sure that saying they are breaking an international law sounds good... But I will go one step further and cite the declaration of paris and the Hague conference of 1907 which outline the scope and limits of a naval blockade. In this case the blockading power may: 1) sink or sieze any vessel that runs the blockade 2) sink or sieze any vessel that intends to run the blockade Therefore based on international law, you are talking out your posterior, vis a vis piracy. And we havent even gotten into whether the bloackade is even legitimate, but thats another story. Pretty sure your argument won't fare any better there either...given the recognised test of the legitimacy of a blockade is the ability to enforce it. What bothers me as a Canadian is that our government has this partisan trust for the state of Israel, and so they couldnt even condemn the act. Thats what gets me, our loyalty to them has gotten in the way of our values that a decade ago were so cherished. They haven't condemned the militants either for attacking the paint ball armed IDF while under a white flag....back in the good oold days they would be lined up a shot for such a breach of the laws of war. And dont use bland sarcasm, it takes away from the substance of your reply No it doesn't...and I wouldn't criticise someones style until you at least have a passing knowledge of the subject you are talking about. And you don't. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
M.Dancer Posted June 3, 2010 Report Posted June 3, 2010 Poor poor post. I myself am a Muslim and I understand that pride and hatred are the only things standing in the way of prosperity for both nations. Israel is already very prosperous...so that argument fails.. Israel didnt 'respond to provocation', they overreacted with disproportionate force. And attacking with a knife against someone armed with a paintball gun is ....a proportionate use of force? I have no respect for a state that can carry out a sustained attack on a helpless strip of land like they did in early 2009. You would think Hamas would be smart enough to stop lobbing rockets into Israel...I have no respect for suicidal idiots... They are the ones with no integrity and if Canada is willing to still blindly support them, then Im sorry but we also have no integrity. I would move to a nation you feel has integrity if I felt the way you do. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
skikdi Posted June 3, 2010 Report Posted June 3, 2010 (edited) So in other words, you don't know what law it is they are breaking, but you are darn sure that saying they are breaking an international law sounds good... But I will go one step further and cite the declaration of paris and the Hague conference of 1907 which outline the scope and limits of a naval blockade. In this case the blockading power may: 1) sink or sieze any vessel that runs the blockade 2) sink or sieze any vessel that intends to run the blockade Therefore based on international law, you are talking out your posterior, vis a vis piracy. Pretty sure your argument won't fare any better there either...given the recognised test of the legitimacy of a blockade is the ability to enforce it. They haven't condemned the militants either for attacking the paint ball armed IDF while under a white flag....back in the good oold days they would be lined up a shot for such a breach of the laws of war. No it doesn't...and I wouldn't criticise someones style until you at least have a passing knowledge of the subject you are talking about. And you don't. Well if you want to get technical then: 1. Gaza by International Law is an occupied territory – neither a territory nor a state.2. Even if it was a state, you would need to declare a state of war or belligerence. Neither were declared or made by the Israeli government. 3. In the absence of a declaration of war or a state of belligerence, the action of Israel is considered civil. that it is the persons who organized the raid, and those who took part in it are subject to the International Maritime Law. just the same as most of Israel politicians are subject to common criminal laws in Europe, today, for example. Therefore it was an act of state terrorism And no lets talk about the blockade, dont evade it I think its quite superfluous to call them militants, but I see that that is your style Edited June 3, 2010 by skikdi Quote
skikdi Posted June 3, 2010 Report Posted June 3, 2010 Israel is already very prosperous...so that argument fails..Unfortunately Israel doesnt have complete security which is an essential to a prosperous nation And attacking with a knife against someone armed with a paintball gun is ....a proportionate use of force? Dont be stupid You would think Hamas would be smart enough to stop lobbing rockets into Israel...I have no respect for suicidal idiots... For once Im in complete agreement with you I would move to a nation you feel has integrity if I felt the way you do. I have a lot of love for Canada and I plan to stay here and fight to change my nation Quote
M.Dancer Posted June 3, 2010 Report Posted June 3, 2010 Well if you want to get technical then: Therefore it was an act of state terrorism And no lets talk about the blockade, dont evade it I think its quite superfluous to call them militants, but I see that that is your style You forgot to link the article...no wait....you quoted some moron in the comments section You say you will get technical and yoiu quote an unlearned buffoon? NBo worries...allow me to quote from the actual article... CAN ISRAEL IMPOSE A NAVAL BLOCKADE ON GAZA?Yes it can, according to the law of blockade which was derived from customary international law and codified in the 1909 Declaration of London. It was updated in 1994 in a legally recognized document called the "San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea." Under some of the key rules, a blockade must be declared and notified to all belligerents and neutral states, access to neutral ports cannot be blocked, and an area can only be blockaded which is under enemy control. "On the basis that Hamas is the ruling entity of Gaza and Israel is in the midst of an armed struggle against that ruling entity, the blockade is legal," said Philip Roche, partner in the shipping disputes and risk management team with law firm Norton Rose. http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65133D20100602 Chortle... I couldn't give a rats ass if your muslim....just don't be a goof, our quota is already full.... Too bleeding funny... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
M.Dancer Posted June 3, 2010 Report Posted June 3, 2010 (edited) Dont be stupid Okay, I will avoid using your arguments.... fact is when the idf boarded the only weapons they had in hand were paintball guns....that is a fact. Unfortunately Israel doesnt have complete security which is an essential to a prosperous nation No nation does...see 9/11 ..yet the US is one of the most prosperous nations ever...again your argument fails. Edited June 3, 2010 by M.Dancer Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Guest TrueMetis Posted June 3, 2010 Report Posted June 3, 2010 fact is when the idf boarded the only weapons they had in hand were paintball guns....that is a fact. Except for their pistols, and to call those "paintball" guns is a joke, they are way more powerful than any paintball gun. Quote
M.Dancer Posted June 3, 2010 Report Posted June 3, 2010 Except for their pistols, and to call those "paintball" guns is a joke, they are way more powerful than any paintball gun. |The pistols were holstered and how exactly do you know what the power of the co2 charged paintball gun is? Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Jack Weber Posted June 3, 2010 Report Posted June 3, 2010 (edited) |The pistols were holstered and how exactly do you know what the power of the co2 charged paintball gun is? Again I ask... Have you ever been hit with a paint ball out of a paint ball gun? Ya' know...It kinda smarts a little... Edited June 3, 2010 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Guest TrueMetis Posted June 3, 2010 Report Posted June 3, 2010 |The pistols were holstered and how exactly do you know what the power of the co2 charged paintball gun is? The pistols were holstered? That explains how the IDF shot them and how the activist got there hands on some of them. FYI people have been killed by normal paintball guns. Quote
M.Dancer Posted June 3, 2010 Report Posted June 3, 2010 The pistols were holstered? That explains how the IDF shot them and how the activist got there hands on some of them. FYI people have been killed by normal paintball guns. You are being pedantic...holstered ain't cloistered...and people have also been killed with peeanut butter....but we do know that no one on board was killed with either peanut butter or paintballs....and the ID|F were attacked even before they touched down of the helicopters....and we do know that they had to seek permission to return fire... We also know that about 9 israelis were wounded...2 seriously. It is a credit to their restraint they only had to put down 9 militants... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
M.Dancer Posted June 3, 2010 Report Posted June 3, 2010 Again I ask... Have you ever been hit with a paint ball out of a paint ball gun? Ya' know...It kinda smarts a little... Yes....but only to see how it felt. I did more hitting than being hit... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Jack Weber Posted June 3, 2010 Report Posted June 3, 2010 (edited) Yes....but only to see how it felt. I did more hitting than being hit... Please don't tell me you're one of these yutz's that has camo and body armour? Edited June 3, 2010 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
M.Dancer Posted June 3, 2010 Report Posted June 3, 2010 Please don't tell me you're one of these yutz's that has camo and body armour? Naw..there was no body armour back then...but enough military training to know you don't expose your profile walking the crest of a hill and the ability to either stay still or run fast... It wasn't a hard game..capture the flag? Okay, lets set up an enfilading fire positions then counter attack...that worked the first time... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Oleg Bach Posted June 3, 2010 Report Posted June 3, 2010 Israel wants them gone - much like captive welfare clients that the state slowly starves to death...slow motion genocide...cut off supplies and physical and mental illness set in - these creeps that run Israel do not even to the will of their own people let alone grant life to others..and for America to stand by and support these jerks...just goes to show you that the leadership in America does not give a damn for common human life - Look at the response to the Gulf of Mexico disaster..all they are thinking about now is how to make their lawyer friends even richer .. the status quo stinks. Quote
Army Guy Posted June 3, 2010 Report Posted June 3, 2010 Except for their pistols, and to call those "paintball" guns is a joke, they are way more powerful than any paintball gun. Actually they are not, all paintball guns are created equal, , you can adjust the amount of presure or speed the ball is ejected but for the most part they are equal, with exception of the ball, most security agencies use a ball filled with small amount of C/S agent or tear gas crystals.... Have you ever been hit with a paint ball out of a paint ball gun?Ya' know...It kinda smarts a little... Ya it smarts, but it does get your attention, and it smarts enough to let you know you don't want to many more of them....so you stop what your doing, and become cooperative....it's called non lethal force...considering the alternative is a live round.....let me tell you those really smart...for days and weeks later... The military has a paintball called Siminition it's a blank round with a paint ball head, get tagged by one of those little suckers and you'll leave with a massive bruise and skin almost broken.., and since our rifles come in fully auto it can get very painful ..only we don't use it for non lethel force but only in our training.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
M.Dancer Posted June 3, 2010 Report Posted June 3, 2010 The military has a paintball called Siminition it's a blank round with a paint ball head, get tagged by one of those little suckers and you'll leave with a massive bruise and skin almost broken.., and since our rifles come in fully auto it can get very painful ..only we don't use it for non lethel force but only in our training.... Time change..back when I was in the militia we had...blanks with the yellow blank adaptor afixed the muzzle and the bayonet clasp....although most of the time because of cutbacks to funding we didn't have enough blanks so we had to yell BANG! Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Army Guy Posted June 3, 2010 Report Posted June 3, 2010 no siminition is only brought out for those rare occasions....most of the time we use blank....and sometimes like you yell buget cut, try that on automatic.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
M.Dancer Posted June 3, 2010 Report Posted June 3, 2010 no siminition is only brought out for those rare occasions....most of the time we use blank....and sometimes like you yell buget cut, try that on automatic.... BUDGETCUTBUDGETCUTBUDGETCUTBUDGETCUT....BUDGETCUTBUDGETCUT...BUDGETCUTBUDGETCUTBUDGETCUTBUDGETCUT...BUDGETCUTBUDGETCUT Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
segnosaur Posted June 3, 2010 Report Posted June 3, 2010 The aid ships that were seized were already inspected by the Cyprus authorities and nothing illegal was found. Which doesn't mean that those ships wouldn't have had the chance to have additional illegal cargo added after they left Cyprus. Its a big sea, and there were hundreds of miles between Cyprus and Gaza, which would have afforded plenty of opportunity for mid-sea meet-ups. (Not like the cargo was 'sealed', and its not like the ships would have been under 24 hour watch since leaving port.) If the concern is the transport of illegal materials, then checking cargo at the destination is the only option that guarantees that nothing illegal was added. Stop with the hysteria. Sending food and medicine to the Gaza people is not going to kill the Jews. Ummm.... just out of curiosity, how exactly do you determine the difference between a ship carrying food/medicine, and a ship carrying, for example, explosives? Is there some sort of maritime law that states "ships carrying dangerous goods have to label themselves"? And if you can't tell the difference between a ship carrying illegal goods (like bombs meant to kill Israeli children) and one carrying legal goods, how exactly are you going to stop the illegal goods from coming in? Magic? Why are you okay with the suffering of the Gazans? Perhaps because the Gazans are at least partly responsible for their own situation. It was the citizens of Gaza who decided to elect a party who's charter actually calls for the destruction of Israel, and who's terrorist activities were well known. Perhaps if the citizens of Gaza decided to take some lessons from, lets say, Ghandi and engage in actual peace then Israel would loose any justification for things like blockades and military strikes. Unfortunate that there may be non-Hamas supporters get caught in the crossfire, but Israel also has a duty to protect its own citizens. Quote
segnosaur Posted June 3, 2010 Report Posted June 3, 2010 Israel wants them gone - much like captive welfare clients that the state slowly starves to death...slow motion genocide.. Really? The Palestinian population has gone up rather a lot over the past few decades. The current growth rate in Gaza is over 3%, and over 2% in the West Bank. This is even higher than the growth rate of Israel (1.6%). If they're attempting to engage in 'genocide', they're doing a very poor job of it. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/we.html https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/gz.html https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/is.html ...these creeps that run Israel do not even to the will of their own people let alone grant life to others.. Ummm... last time I checked, Israel was a democracy. Quote
bloodyminded Posted June 8, 2010 Report Posted June 8, 2010 Which doesn't mean that those ships wouldn't have had the chance to have additional illegal cargo added after they left Cyprus. Its a big sea, and there were hundreds of miles between Cyprus and Gaza, which would have afforded plenty of opportunity for mid-sea meet-ups. (Not like the cargo was 'sealed', and its not like the ships would have been under 24 hour watch since leaving port.) If the concern is the transport of illegal materials, then checking cargo at the destination is the only option that guarantees that nothing illegal was added. Ummm.... just out of curiosity, how exactly do you determine the difference between a ship carrying food/medicine, and a ship carrying, for example, explosives? Is there some sort of maritime law that states "ships carrying dangerous goods have to label themselves"? And if you can't tell the difference between a ship carrying illegal goods (like bombs meant to kill Israeli children) and one carrying legal goods, how exactly are you going to stop the illegal goods from coming in? Magic? Since the people on the flotilla predicted that they would be boarded, and said they expected to be boarded, and that Israel decided early on that they would be boarded.... ....so that every interested party agreed that they would be boarded.... ....how do you square that with your wild-eyed, lunatic conspiracy theory that they "might" be smuggling weapons to Hamas? Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
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