2010s to be Canada's Decade

[Jack Weber]

That may be, but many other places have went backwards.

I agree...But none of that is really a positive...

It is an indication that Friedman/Hayek economic theory of free markets is nothing more than a wealth redistibution excercise upwards...

[Smallc]

I agree...But none of that is really a positive...

It is an indication that Friedman/Hayek economic theory of free markets is nothing more than a wealth redistibution excercise upwards...

Yes, and that is one of Canada's problems - an increasing Gini coefficient.

Edited May 28, 2010 by Smallc

[xul]

But this is a CIBC's report. It eyes mainly on economy and finance so it is correct. Economically Canada is surely in a good position in the world nowadays. Canada is among a few countries which is strong on both energy and manufacture sectors. Though the manufacture sector is facing more and more competition from foreign countries, but Canada's geographic advantage can partly reduce and counteract the impact from these foreign competitors.

Canada is just like dual engine plane, it may not be among those bigest and fastest ones, but it is more safe than those single engine planes.

[Wild Bill]

I agree that it sounds good,but I'm not sure our standard of living is better than it was 30 to 40 years ago,relatively speaking.

I don't think we live as good today, Jack! I remember how in the 70's I never had to worry about finding a job. I'd go out in the morning and find a job before noon! The person doing the hiring was almost always the person who would be your supervisor. He didn't worry much if you had all sorts of accredited post-high school courses. He would ask you questions to satisfy himself if you had the background and especially the aptitude for training.

I had no problem paying for an apartment, a car, household expenses and several nights a week hoisting a few beers while watching a rock and roll band!

My father had raised us four kids on just his income. Mom stayed at home. He was a steelworker and managed a modest house, a car and a surprising number of "toys" like a colour TV, a finished rec room, a fireplace and the like.

Now it takes both marriage partners working to provide a similar level of living. The only difference is that the "toys" have become much cheaper! So it takes both of you to cover the mortgage, cars and all the main expenses but it's easier to buy DVD players and outfit that rec room with some home theatre.

My father's annual income was about $6000 when he bought his house for $22,000. That's a ratio of about 3.7. The average income today is around $45,000 for a non-elderly, single earning individual, as per this link:

http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/famil05a-eng.htm?sdi=income

Assuming EVERYTHING has stayed the same in living costs after adjusting for inflation, that ratio of 3.7 means you could afford a house costing $166,500! Of course, everything has NOT stayed the same! Taxes are higher. User fees nickel and dime us everywhere. Gasoline is MUCH more expensive! In 1971, my best friend's dad bought a brand new Plymouth Duster for $2200! Electricity was much cheaper. We hadn't run up the debt of all the patronage that went on building the nukes!

How much of a house do you think you can REALLY buy for that kind of annual income? What's the average price of a home these days?

In St. Catherines we have stats for 2008 showing a detached bungalow (like my dad's house, to keep apples with apples) going for $204,000 in 2008. In Burlington we see $316,500. Toronto shows over half a million dollars, more in some areas of the city. Here's the link:

http://www.stcatharines.ca/forbusiness/ecodevt/eco_dev_market.asp

Looks to me like our living standard has slid by about 50%, if it takes more than 2 incomes to provide a similar living standard formerly supported by just one.

That's one of the great things about getting old. If you've got a reasonably good memory it's a lot harder for the "powers that be" to snow you with BS contrary to what you experienced first hand! It's natural for every generation to focus on their own status quo, never thinking about previous history to develop an idea of whether we're on a positive or a negative long term trend.

[Smallc]

Unfortunately, most people don't have a good memory, and they tend to look back with rose coloured glasses. You are, Wild Bill, a prime example.

[Smallc]

BTW, taxes are NOT higher as a percentage of the economy than they were in the 70's:

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/48/27/41498733.pdf

Taxes are lower now than they were in 2007.

[Jack Weber]

Unfortunately, most people don't have a good memory, and they tend to look back with rose coloured glasses. You are, Wild Bill, a prime example.

Uh...I was born in 1970...

My mom did'nt go back to work until 1983.In the previous 12 years I can remember many trips to Florida,camping up north and out East.And it was all on one income...A bargaining unit income from STELCO.My father never finished high school!

I made slightly above 18 bucks an hour as a student working in the BOF at the same STELCO plant in Hamilton...It took me until 1998 to make about a dime less than I was making in 1989,and I was a ticketed tradesperson by then.I'm one of hundreds of thousands who can attest to aan obvious effort to limit or stop wage growth.

Wild Bill is NOT wrong...

[Smallc]

Wages have actually gone up though, even accounting for inflation.

http://www.td.com/economics/special/sc1006_alta.jsp

Over this period, Canadian wages excluding Alberta grew at about 10%. With Alberta included, they grew faster. Inflation over the same period would range in the 7 - 9% range. I'm sure information can be found for other time periods.

We need to work more today because we buy more. When the Mustang was introduced, it cost the equivelant of a working mans salary for a year. Now, it costs, in GT form, about $38K. That's less than the average Canadian salary of $42.5K per year. Wages have least kept pace, and have, from many reports I've seen, increased ever so slightly.

[Smallc]

http://www.financialpost.com/scripts/story.html?id=3a37926d-d81b-48aa-a66e-fc82db888263&k=83989

Here is another article that talkes about how in the late 2000s at least, wages were rising well above inflation. It would be hard for inflation to increase without increasing wages.

Edited May 29, 2010 by Smallc

[Jack Weber]

Sorry buddy...even the National Post disagrees...

http://www.nationalpost.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=485124

We have had 30 years of wage stagnation.

[Bonam]

I'm sure the 2010s will be a great decade for Canada. But that doesn't mean it's "Canada's Decade". This goes back to an earlier discussion where smallc was trying to say that Canada counts as a "superpower" or at least an "economic superpower", which is of course nonsense.

Canada is a nice place to live and will likely see relative prosperity in the near future. But that doesn't mean it is dominant throughout the world economically, militarily, or socially. And I think most Canadians are happy with that.

[Smallc]

This goes back to an earlier discussion where smallc was trying to say that Canada counts as a "superpower" or at least an "economic superpower", which is of course nonsense.

Of course. Everything you think of as nonsense naturally...is. Stephen Harper, other government officials, and economists have all talked about Canada as an economic and energy superpower. Being a superpower doesn't mean being dominant, it simply means that you wield a great deal of influence in a certain area. That's really true of all G20 countries and even some non G20 countries.

As for this being Canada's decade...relative to the rest of the G8, it will be.

Edited May 29, 2010 by Smallc

[Borg]

Really???

Wages have remained essentially stagnant for almost 30 years when inflation is taken into account.

I agree we are in better shape than many other countries,but it's relative success.

Jack

What you may not know.

smallc was born with a very large silver spoon in his mouth - it provides him with his "unique" aspect on the economy. Mom and Dad did it for him then and quite likely still do it for him. He has never worried about paying a bill.

Once he is finished that law degree and applied that unique upbringing, he will then run for government in order to pass those great values he has learned from his difficult past onto the rest of the country. LOL

Do not waste your time. It will make you feel much better when you stop.

Borg

Edited May 29, 2010 by Borg

[williat]

Being a superpower doesn't mean being dominant, it simply means that you wield a great deal of influence in a certain area. That's really true of all G20 countries and even some non G20 countries.

As for this being Canada's decade...relative to the rest of the G8, it will be.

Well said.

[Sir Bandelot]

Canada's economy has been doing well for quite a while now. But in recent years a lot of financial ground has been lost, as the national deficit has balooned up by a large amount. And if we keep giving bailouts to banks when they don't need it, that does not help the country.

But for recognizing Canadas unique good health in the world economy, let's give credit where credit's due- thank you Paul Martin.

[Smallc]

smallc was born with a very large silver spoon in his mouth - it provides him with his "unique" aspect on the economy. Mom and Dad did it for him then and quite likely still do it for him. He has never worried about paying a bill.

Whatever you think you know about me - you're pretty much wrong.

[lukin]

Prime Minister Harper and the Conservatives have put Canada in an excellent position, much to bob Rae's chagrin.

[Smallc]

Though the Harper Conservatives were doubtlessly part of what has set a good foundation, they were hardly the only people. A great deal of recognition has to go to Brian Mulroney, Jean Chretien, and Paul Martin.

[punked]

Never mind Canada's decade I figure we are in for 50 years of dominance. We have something almost no other country has. A small population. Which means more for everyone. That however does not mean we can let our population shrink because then their will be no one to get the resources the world wants.

[lukin]

Though the Harper Conservatives were doubtlessly part of what has set a good foundation, they were hardly the only people. A great deal of recognition has to go to Brian Mulroney, Jean Chretien, and Paul Martin.

Paul Martin............ isn't he the guy who improperly took money from the EI fund and put it towards other things? Is that what made him a financial genius?

[punked]

Paul Martin............ isn't he the guy who improperly took money from the EI fund and put it towards other things? Is that what made him a financial genius?

Yep Stole 50 billion from the EI fund and payed 50 billion down the debt. Now how did he do it? I mean honestly I could be finance minister if that is how you balance the books. I bet they could pay down the whole debt if they started stealing from CPP but then when people need it where will it be? Short sightedness.

[Argus]

The 90s and 2000s were exce3llent decades for Canada. Our standard of living before taxes is now higher than the US. It soon will be after taxes.

What do you base this on? What compromises a "standard of living"?

IF it's big houses, the Americans tend to have us beat there.

[waldo]

Paul Martin............ isn't he the guy who improperly took money from the EI fund and put it towards other things? Is that what made him a financial genius?

Yep Stole 50 billion from the EI fund and payed 50 billion down the debt. Now how did he do it? I mean honestly I could be finance minister if that is how you balance the books. I bet they could pay down the whole debt if they started stealing from CPP but then when people need it where will it be? Short sightedness.

which gear is your NDP revisionism in today? Your "stole' assertion would seem to counter the ruling from the Supreme Court of Canada - yes? Would you like to withdraw your improper assertion... or would you like a link to the Supreme Court ruling (7 to 0) that held the Liberal government was within its rights to divert EI contributions to pay down the deficit from 1996-2001. Your choice... your withdrawal or the link... your choice.

[Born Free]

which gear is your NDP revisionism in today? Your "stole' assertion would seem to counter the ruling from the Supreme Court of Canada - yes? Would you like to withdraw your improper assertion... or would you like a link to the Supreme Court ruling (7 to 0) that held the Liberal government was within its rights to divert EI contributions to pay down the deficit from 1996-2001. Your choice... your withdrawal or the link... your choice.

He'll take whats behind the third curtain....

[Smallc]

What do you base this on? What compromises a "standard of living"?

The amount of money made. Canadians make on average more money per week than Americans.