The US Leads Canada in Open Government Initiatives

[Michael Hardner]

Our culture of quietly accepting whatever government gives us is continuing into the 21st century technology. A report from:

Alysia Davies

Dara Lithwick

Legal and Legislative Affairs Division

Parliamentary Information and Research Service

Library of Parliament

Government 2.0 and Access to Information: 1. Recent Developments in Proactive Disclosure and Open Data in Canada

Government 2.0 and Access to Information:

2. Recent Developments in Proactive Disclosure and Open Data in the United States and Other Countries

Excerpts:

Toronto’s “OpenTO” initiative has resulted in the launch of an online catalogue6 with an A–Z directory of data sets that can be accessed by the public in different formats, depending on the data sought.

...

The site’s front page contains links to the “hottest” requests, the “most recent” requests, the “most commented” requests, and the “most contentious” requests.

This is cute - the assertion that they need a 'most contentious' section. The data is utterly inconsequential: "What is the closest park to my house ?" type of data. On the blog, which I monitor from time to time, somebody asked if they could access response times from emergency services. This, one would think, should be provided automatically. An ominous response from (clearly) an insider to Toronto's emergency services:

"You will never get this type of data"

Not to worry about Ontario or Canada's governments - there's no such arrogance because they're simply doing nothing, or practically nothing:

Although no other major provincial initiatives appear to have been announced so far, information and privacy commissioners and other regulators at the provincial level are beginning to encourage the study of proactive disclosure, with a particular focus on the municipal example. The Office of the Chief Information and Privacy Officer of Ontario is co-hosting a conference entitled “Managing Information in the Public Sector: Shaping the New Information Space” in April 2010 with the City of Toronto and several other groups

The House of Commons Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics announced in April 2010 that it will commence a study on proactive disclosure.65

Yawn.

Let's see what the USA is doing then:

On his first full day in office, 21 January 2009, President Obama issued a Memorandum to the heads of all departments and agencies emphasizing that the FOIA reflects a “profound national commitment to ensuring an open Government” and directing agencies to “adopt a presumption in favor of disclosure.”14 As stated in the Memorandum:

All agencies should adopt a presumption in favor of disclosure, in order to renew their commitment to the principles embodied in FOIA, and to usher in a new era of open Government. The presumption of disclosure should be applied to all decisions involving FOIA.

The presumption of disclosure also means that agencies should take affirmative steps to make information public. They should not wait for specific requests from the public. All agencies should use modern technology to inform citizens about what is known and done by their Government. Disclosure should be timely.15

And...

In May 2009 the Administration launched Data.gov,18 a website that makes economic, health care, environmental, and other information available in multiple electronic formats, providing the public with access to more government information online than ever before. Its stated purpose is “to increase public access to high value, machine readable datasets generated by the Executive Branch of the Federal Government.” It provides descriptions of the federal data sets (metadata), information about how to access the data sets, and tools that leverage government data sets. The first version of Data.gov contains federal Executive Branch data; the data catalogues will continue to grow as data sets are added. Data.gov also offers access to software tools, such as one for tracking the performance of flights.19 As noted on the website, “Data.gov strives to make government more transparent and is committed to creating an unprecedented level of openness in Government. The openness derived from Data.gov will strengthen our Nation’s democracy and promote efficiency and effectiveness in Government.”20

Finally, by 7 April 2010 (within 120 days), agencies were to have published their open government plans, outlining steps for improving transparency and for promoting public participation and collaboration. As noted on the White House’s Open Government Initiative Blog, the plans “are the agencies’ strategic roadmap for making openness – transparency, citizen participation, and collaboration – part of the way that the federal government works.”

Canadians trust government, which might not be a bad thing unless they trust them too much.

Edited May 25, 2010 by Michael Hardner

[Michael Hardner]

Short version - as requested by another poster:

When it comes to government openness, Canada sucks and the USA rocks. Period.

[Shwa]

Short version - as requested by another poster:

When it comes to government openness, Canada sucks and the USA rocks. Period.

Have you tried to get "access response times from emergency services" from the US government? If so, what did they say?

[Shwa]

Have you tried to get "access response times from emergency services" from the US government? If so, what did they say?

The short answer is no, since that type of information - unless previously released under a request for information, does not fit the categories of the US FOIA:

According to the FOIA, agencies are required to proactively disclose four categories of records:9 (1) “final opinions [and] … orders” rendered in the adjudication of administrative cases, 10 (2) specific agency policy statements,11 (3) certain administrative staff manuals “that affect a member of the public,”12 and (4) records which have been released under subsection (a)(3) (i.e., by way of a specific request) that “the agency determines have become, or are likely to become, the subject of subsequent requests for substantially the same records.”13

But why would the US government have ready datasets about emergency response times for state and city emergency services? Perhaps BC could enlighten us on how the emergency response services are structured in the US and how one could obtain that data.

Not that I don't think the US is a leader - at least at the national level - for freedom of information, but I find it a titch dishonest that you would compare freedom of information at the city level and make a general statement about the national level. It might be more useful if you compared apples to apples in this case and find out the emergency response times of a similary sized city in the US. Houston, San Diego or Philadelphia for instance. How are their disclosure practices?

[Michael Hardner]

Have you tried to get "access response times from emergency services" from the US government? If so, what did they say?

I haven't tried to do anything with this data myself. Emergency services is usually the domain of local services, though.

[Michael Hardner]

But why would the US government have ready datasets about emergency response times for state and city emergency services? Perhaps BC could enlighten us on how the emergency response services are structured in the US and how one could obtain that data.

I think most of us understand the concept of jurisdiction. As such, I don't understand what your point is.

Not that I don't think the US is a leader - at least at the national level - for freedom of information, but I find it a titch dishonest that you would compare freedom of information at the city level and make a general statement about the national level. It might be more useful if you compared apples to apples in this case and find out the emergency response times of a similary sized city in the US. Houston, San Diego or Philadelphia for instance. How are their disclosure practices?

I excerpted quotes from the local, provincial and national level. The Toronto example I gave applies to Toronto only. Even other Canadian cities have done more with this.

[Shwa]

I think most of us understand the concept of jurisdiction. As such, I don't understand what your point is.

I excerpted quotes from the local, provincial and national level. The Toronto example I gave applies to Toronto only. Even other Canadian cities have done more with this.

My point is that your argument is skewed.

You weighed three levels of local government access levels (Canada) to one foreign level (USA) and then made a general statement about "Canada" and the "USA." I think it would be a little clearer if you drew like examples from two other levels of jurisdiction in the US (state, municipal) and then made the comparison. Or you simply left out any references to provincial and municipal access levels altogether which would render your anecdote about emergency response times almost meaningless.

[Michael Hardner]

My point is that your argument is skewed.

You weighed three levels of local government access levels (Canada) to one foreign level (USA) and then made a general statement about "Canada" and the "USA." I think it would be a little clearer if you drew like examples from two other levels of jurisdiction in the US (state, municipal) and then made the comparison. Or you simply left out any references to provincial and municipal access levels altogether which would render your anecdote about emergency response times almost meaningless.

Fair enough, but I wasn't intending to provide proof by comparing Toronto directly with the US. I'm just giving impressions of how these things are viewed at different levels. Toronto and Ontario stand on their own as examples where not much is going on.

And, although I can't prove it, I do believe there are attitude differences between the US and Canada with regards to government and monitoring. The respective national stances may provide some anecdotal evidence if you need it but I would expect you to agree on that.

[Smallc]

There is a difference in attitude. Americans hate government. Canadians don't. That's the difference, and I'darther we didn't start hating the people that lead us to make you feel better.

[Shwa]

Fair enough, but I wasn't intending to provide proof by comparing Toronto directly with the US. I'm just giving impressions of how these things are viewed at different levels. Toronto and Ontario stand on their own as examples where not much is going on.

And, although I can't prove it, I do believe there are attitude differences between the US and Canada with regards to government and monitoring. The respective national stances may provide some anecdotal evidence if you need it but I would expect you to agree on that.

Catching up with Government 2.0 at Mesh

I have used both the geo data from GeoGratis (very cool!) and Environment Canada's historical weather data (very cool!) and I regularly use the National Archives, Libraries, Images Canada, etc. One of the main obstacles to Gov 2.0 in the Canadian federal government is due to aging or poor computing and communications infrastructure. I believe that several key departments are now working on a multi-billion dollar upgrade to their voice and data systems with Gov 2.0 in mind.

[bloodyminded]

The US government does seem to be more open in crucial ways; closely related are the superior free speech protections.

[Michael Hardner]

Catching up with Government 2.0 at Mesh

I have used both the geo data from GeoGratis (very cool!) and Environment Canada's historical weather data (very cool!) and I regularly use the National Archives, Libraries, Images Canada, etc. One of the main obstacles to Gov 2.0 in the Canadian federal government is due to aging or poor computing and communications infrastructure. I believe that several key departments are now working on a multi-billion dollar upgrade to their voice and data systems with Gov 2.0 in mind.

Great, Shwa ! Are you a Government 2.0 nerd too ? No disrespect intended, .

If the government watchers on this board ever got organized with Government 2.0 types then we'd see real change.

The Govt 2.0 stuff is now myopically focused on 'cool apps' like finding the nearest recycling centre to my house. Yawn.

[Shwa]

Great, Shwa ! Are you a Government 2.0 nerd too ? No disrespect intended, .

If the government watchers on this board ever got organized with Government 2.0 types then we'd see real change.

The Govt 2.0 stuff is now myopically focused on 'cool apps' like finding the nearest recycling centre to my house. Yawn.

What would you have it be at this moment, other than a place to source emergency response time stats? What other datasets would you like to see opened up?

[Shwa]

Interesting story in the Star:

Access to information not a constitutional right, Supreme Court rules

Long-awaited decision leaves Canada behind other countries

The Supreme Court of Canada has taken a small step toward recognizing that citizens sometimes need access to government documents to exercise freedom of expression, but stopped short of calling it a broad constitutional right.

On a practical level, Thursday’s ruling means that, after 13 years, it is still uncertain whether the public will ever learn details of an OPP report into the botched prosecution of two men charged with murdering reputed mobster Domenic Racco.

On a broader level, the long-awaited decision leaves Canada eclipsed by countries such as South Africa, Norway and Bulgaria, which have made access to information a component of their constitutions.

Should access to information for ordinary citizens - including the media - be a "broad constitutional right" as opposed to mere law it already is?

[Michael Hardner]

Canada is good (or bad) at keeping citizens uninformed...

[Shwa]

Canada is good (or bad) at keeping citizens uninformed...

How so?

[Michael Hardner]

Lots of ways.

Court ordered publication bans, lack of openness of government, more controls on broadcasting, expression of personal beliefs.

[Shwa]

Lots of ways.

Court ordered publication bans, lack of openness of government, more controls on broadcasting, expression of personal beliefs.

So do you think that child victims of sexual assault should be identified in the media or do you think it is the media's responsibility to govern itself in that respect?

You see, I am getting the sense that you are no longer talking exclusively about the Canadian levels of government, but society in general.

[Michael Hardner]

So do you think that child victims of sexual assault should be identified in the media

No.

or do you think it is the media's responsibility to govern itself in that respect?

No - children should have their identities protected by law.

You see, I am getting the sense that you are no longer talking exclusively about the Canadian levels of government, but society in general.

Well, privacy isn't natural, nor is it a right in all cases. As such, there are costs associated with it, that we all must pay.

At a certain point, you start to wonder if it's worth the overhead.

[bush_cheney2004]

So do you think that child victims of sexual assault should be identified in the media or do you think it is the media's responsibility to govern itself in that respect?....

Why is the reporting of "sexual" assault afforded special circumstances over any other types of assault or crime? If the idea is to protect minors in general whether victim or perp that is one thing, but no special consideration should be made for the nature of the crime.

[Michael Hardner]

Read Laura Wesley's postoutlining the value of open data for government...

(Of course, it's part of another American initiative for open government - govloop)

[Michael Hardner]

As I have said, rich are the rewards to the political group that figures out how to tame this bronco known as 'open data'... it can be done, though.

[Michael Hardner]

I have been looking for non-American examples, in order to provide a kind of counter-point to my own argument - but also to show that the US is not the only place where Open Gov is happening:

Richard Poynder blogs about Open Gov in the UK & Italy in this article, most notably talking about cost monitoring, and using the web to have citizens watch government rather than the other way around.

Notably, many American and Canadian Open Gov blogs seem to talk about cool apps but the offshore examples I have been reading are more about watching the money, and keeping our leaders beholden to those who pay their taxes.

[bush_cheney2004]

I have been looking for non-American examples, in order to provide a kind of counter-point to my own argument - but also to show that the US is not the only place where Open Gov is happening:

...so now n = 4 ?

[Michael Hardner]

More than n being 4, or 4000... the very first things I saw out of Australia, Italy and the UK were about putting the government on notice that they were being watched by us.

This goes against my thesis that the Open Gov initiatives in the states could be viewed as an extension of America's traditional suspicion of government because the US initiatives, though plentiful, tend to be "cute" applications.

I'm happy to be wrong, though, as I'm learning more and more about this movement every day.