Invoice Suppression

[TammyFlores]

Hi again. I am still going with the theme Business in the Province of Ontario, however, this thread is dedicated to a practice called "Invoice Suppression". Is this legal in the Province of Ontario? Is there parameters that this is allowed to be practiced? Does anyone know of Fraud cases where they were tried re: "Invoice Suppression"? It's an interesting concept that I discovered is being practiced here in the Province of Ontario.

[GostHacked]

Hi again. I am still going with the theme Business in the Province of Ontario, however, this thread is dedicated to a practice called "Invoice Suppression". Is this legal in the Province of Ontario? Is there parameters that this is allowed to be practiced? Does anyone know of Fraud cases where they were tried re: "Invoice Suppression"? It's an interesting concept that I discovered is being practiced here in the Province of Ontario.

I don't get it, care to elaborate or provide a couple links?

[Michael Hardner]

Is this about 407 ETR again ?

[TammyFlores]

I don't get it, care to elaborate or provide a couple links?

Well I was doing some reasearch and I stumbled accross this document from the 407 ETR in 2005. Presented by Enrique Diaz-Rato, President and Chief Executive Officer of the 407 ETR http://www.macquarie.com.au/au/mig/news/attachments/2005_05_10_407_Presentation.pdf Under reducing return mail and improving payments on Page 36 it speaks of "invoice suppression". What is that? I have never heard of that practice before.

I know that dictionary.com defines surpress as follows:

Word Origin & History

suppress

late 14c., "to put down by force or authority," from L. suppressus, pp. of supprimere "press down, stop, check, stifle," from sub "down, under" + premere "push against" (see press (v.1)). Sense of "prevent or prohibit the circulation of" is from 1560.

sup·press (sə-prěs')

tr.v. sup·pressed, sup·press·ing, sup·press·es

1) To put an end to forcibly; subdue.

2) To curtail or prohibit the activities of.

3) To keep from being revealed, published, or circulated.

4) To deliberately exclude (unacceptable desires or thoughts) from the mind.

5) To inhibit the expression of (an impulse, for example); check: suppress a smile.

6) To reduce the incidence or severity of (a hemorrhage or cough, for example); arrest.

It just opened a hole can of worms for me because when I google "invoice suppression" I come up with cases involving fraud which lead me to wonder if this is a legal business practice and if so weather or not there are any perameters it is practiced in, ect...

So I am just wondering if anyone has ever heard of it, or know of any cases of fraud using it, ect... Just curious I guess you could say and since there's a lot of smart people on this forum I thought I ask if you know what it is or if anyone has ever heard of it.

[Oleg Bach]

Is this about 407 ETR again ?

That is just like the former Dome Stadium..the pubic puts up the money - the poiticals get into power and sell the thing off to their private buddies - for next to nothing and we who paid for it get nothing - suppress that little thought for a moment.

[TammyFlores]

That is just like the former Dome Stadium..the pubic puts up the money - the poiticals get into power and sell the thing off to their private buddies - for next to nothing and we who paid for it get nothing - suppress that little thought for a moment.

The whole problem with practicing "Invoice Suppression" is that mistakes that are made and are not being dealt with. The public is being extorted money that lawfully is not the 407 ETR's to extort. The Ministry of Transportation has been turning a blind eye to it. I say enough is enough. The Ministry of Transportation absolutely has a responsibility to the public with regards to the 407 ETR's business practices because it is a collection agency for this private company. The Ministry has a responsibility to make sure the charges are lawful.

Schedule B of the "Amicable Settlement" signed March 31, 2006 between the Ministry and the 407 says that the process of plate denail is enforceable unless the charges are not lawful.

If the 407 ETR is not billing people correctly, charges are not lawful and so the Ministry of Transportation has a responsibility to deny the 407 ETR's claim for plate denial, however, when you bring it to their attention, they double talk you and try to brush you off saying it's a billing issue between you and the 407. I'm sorry, but as long as the Ministry isn't giving you a sticker because the 407 ETR has you in plate denial, without proof of lawful charges, it's the Ministry's responsibility to do something about it!!!

[TammyFlores]

This is an update re: 407 ETR issues. After 5, very long, years, of squabbling back and forth, the 407 ETR has finally reprinted invoices for the account they gave me, that was someone elses, and sent them to me. It still remains only a partial accounting.

The 407 ETR has maintained that since I owned the license plate, then I own the charges, however, the problem is that I opened an account with that license plate and was never informed that there were outstanding amounts owed on that plate. They still have not explained that, nor have they given me the justification of giving me someone elses account.

Their claim is that I owned the plate from October 2000, however, they only went back to March 18th, 2005 with the reprinted invoices, of an account that belonged to someone else. For a company that can go after you for 15 years... timing should not be an issue.

To ascertain weather the charges they are claiming against me are lawful, I need full disclosure. What is wrong with this company? Do they speak english? What part of full disclosure is not understood to these people?

For those interested, I'll keep you posted. It seems taking my plight online has opened some ears. Thanks to all those that gave me good advice.

[Wild Bill]

This is an update re: 407 ETR issues. After 5, very long, years, of squabbling back and forth, the 407 ETR has finally reprinted invoices for the account they gave me, that was someone elses, and sent them to me. It still remains only a partial accounting.

The 407 ETR has maintained that since I owned the license plate, then I own the charges, however, the problem is that I opened an account with that license plate and was never informed that there were outstanding amounts owed on that plate. They still have not explained that, nor have they given me the justification of giving me someone elses account.

Their claim is that I owned the plate from October 2000, however, they only went back to March 18th, 2005 with the reprinted invoices, of an account that belonged to someone else. For a company that can go after you for 15 years... timing should not be an issue.

To ascertain weather the charges they are claiming against me are lawful, I need full disclosure. What is wrong with this company? Do they speak english? What part of full disclosure is not understood to these people?

For those interested, I'll keep you posted. It seems taking my plight online has opened some ears. Thanks to all those that gave me good advice.

Tammy, I'm afraid that your search for "invoice suppression" may prove a waste of time. It's not that relevant to your problem.

You can prove the illegality of the 407's actions six ways to Sunday but so what? Do you expect to just call up the police, tell them what's going on and they will promptly arrest the 407 accountants for you? No, sadly what happens is that you won't be able to get anyone anywhere to bother getting off their ass to address the problem!

The 407 cartel is huge! It has an incredible amount of political pull, especially since many politicians are heavily invested in the company. I suggest you keep trying to get as many politicians as you can to fight for you. The only thing the 407 cares about is negative publicity. One at a time and they can just ignore us. If it becomes a big enough political issue the politicians might start worrying about keeping their seats more than the money they're all making and change the rules to make things more fair.

Remember, this is a company that at one time had over 800 thousand complaints on file and just ignored them! As long as the money keeps pouring in they couldn't give a damn about how many of us they blatantly screw over with their mistakes!.

They will only respond to strong enough political pressures, Tammy. It's not right, but that's reality.

[TammyFlores]

Tammy, I'm afraid that your search for "invoice suppression" may prove a waste of time. It's not that relevant to your problem.

You can prove the illegality of the 407's actions six ways to Sunday but so what? Do you expect to just call up the police, tell them what's going on and they will promptly arrest the 407 accountants for you? No, sadly what happens is that you won't be able to get anyone anywhere to bother getting off their ass to address the problem!

The 407 cartel is huge! It has an incredible amount of political pull, especially since many politicians are heavily invested in the company. I suggest you keep trying to get as many politicians as you can to fight for you. The only thing the 407 cares about is negative publicity. One at a time and they can just ignore us. If it becomes a big enough political issue the politicians might start worrying about keeping their seats more than the money they're all making and change the rules to make things more fair.

Remember, this is a company that at one time had over 800 thousand complaints on file and just ignored them! As long as the money keeps pouring in they couldn't give a damn about how many of us they blatantly screw over with their mistakes!.

They will only respond to strong enough political pressures, Tammy. It's not right, but that's reality.

One thing I have learned in all of this ordeal is how to be patient. Trust me... I have not wavered for 5 years and don't plan to any time soon. It's like the ripples in a pond. It takes one rock to start it, but that one initial splash spreads to encompass the entire area. Invoice supression is just the tip of the iceburg and is very relavant to what is happening. That's why there is many of complaints of people not receiving a bill for years after so called charges incurred. I don't believe it to be a lawful practice if you are expecting to be able to collect interest and other fees.

As for the police laying charges re:extortion. If I have enough people with a solid case like my own, the police have a responsibility under law to press charges. So far, I have about 6 other cases gathered. I need more before I can do anything.

There are already things in place people have to start using. Charging the 407 ETR with extortion is just one avenue. There's also the "amicable agreement" the Province made with the 407 in March of 2006. Schedule B of the agreement says that the plate denial process is enforceable if the charges are lawful. When the 407 ETR can not bill correctly and make billing errors. Many charges are not lawful, therefore there is a responsibilty for the Ministry of Transportation to recognize that and refuse plate denial until the 407 supplies full disclosure and lawful justification for the charges. Anything less is unacceptable. People are not aware of this because the Ministry and the 407 simply try tossing you back and forth with muddied, convoluted reasoning. It's not acceptable and people need to speak up.

I don't care how big the 407 appears. They don't have the right to stamp all over people's rights. I am not intimidated by them. They are a foreign company on our soil. They are here because the government showed how we needed congestion relief. The government decided on a market solution, which I have no problem with. My problem is that now that there are issues, they are turning a blind eye it. That must absolutely stop! This is an abuse of power by a private, foreign enterprise. The government absolutely, already has within their power, measures to take for these issues, but are refusing to do it. More people need to speak up and let them know we aren't in the dark anymore.

Don't take no for an answer when the answer is yes.

[Topaz]

You're saying that they said you car with this license plate was spotted on 407 and you own us money, right? Well, I had the same problem twice and I phoned them and told them that I do not own a car with that license plate prsently but I did at one time but it was on a Olds NOT a HONDA! I not sure if the MTO make double license plate numbers but they told me sorry and it was forgetten. If you can prove that its not your car or license plate they can't do anything and I'm sure by having car insurance and a record of your license plate and model of car on your ownership will help. It also help that I told them I've haven't been to TO for 30 odd years and would know where this 407 was.

[madmax]

Tammy, I'm afraid that your search for "invoice suppression" may prove a waste of time. It's not that relevant to your problem.

You can prove the illegality of the 407's actions six ways to Sunday but so what? Do you expect to just call up the police, tell them what's going on and they will promptly arrest the 407 accountants for you? No, sadly what happens is that you won't be able to get anyone anywhere to bother getting off their ass to address the problem!

The 407 cartel is huge! It has an incredible amount of political pull, especially since many politicians are heavily invested in the company. I suggest you keep trying to get as many politicians as you can to fight for you. The only thing the 407 cares about is negative publicity. One at a time and they can just ignore us. If it becomes a big enough political issue the politicians might start worrying about keeping their seats more than the money they're all making and change the rules to make things more fair.

Remember, this is a company that at one time had over 800 thousand complaints on file and just ignored them! As long as the money keeps pouring in they couldn't give a damn about how many of us they blatantly screw over with their mistakes!.

They will only respond to strong enough political pressures, Tammy. It's not right, but that's reality.

This post is so good, it has to be repeated...

[TammyFlores]

This post is so good, it has to be repeated...

And here in lies the reason why the problem exists.

[TammyFlores]

Did you know that the Freedom of Information and Privacy Act is very helpful when you are trying to get information that you are entitled to? After 5 very long years... I just received all kinds of documentation. Things are about to get interesting.

Edited July 14, 2010 by TammyFlores