Aid Groups Told to STFU About Abortion or Face Increasing Backlash

[bush_cheney2004]

.... Within this rare 0.4% of all abortions category, just how many actual 'D&X techniques' are even performed within Canada - the so-called, "partial-birth" abortions?

None in Quebec...instead they send the fetuses to be slaughtered in New York or Kansas!

[waldo]

Within this rare 0.4% of all abortions category, just how many actual 'D&X techniques' are even performed within Canada - the so-called, "partial-birth" abortions?

None in Quebec...instead they send the fetuses to be slaughtered in New York or Kansas!

why not step up and support your standard glib one-line trick pony show... show your facts/figures that speak to your "slaughtered" attachment... that the rarest of the rare procedures, that D&X procedures, are being egregiously and needlessly performed on anything other than conditions of failed/malformed fetuses or where a woman's health or life was not threatened.

[Argus]

what are the circumstances for which you advocate the need for laws? My understanding is that late term abortions are a most rare event in Canada... only some 0.4% of all abortions performed occurring after 20 weeks gestation - so called late-term abortions (a somewhat dated 2003 figure... if you have a more recent update to that figure, please provide). Within this rare 0.4% of all abortions category, just how many actual 'D&X techniques' are even performed within Canada - the so-called, "partial-birth" abortions?

I think Jonathon Kay had a point in the Post this morning, that in most northern European nations abortions are largely prohibited except in medical emergencies after about 12 weeks.

[DrGreenthumb]

Sadly...agreed....

Late term and partial birth abortions don't happen in Canada anyways, there is no need for a law. I challenged Rod Brinooge on a local radio show to come up with ONE example of this taking place in canada, and he admitted that he couldn't because it doesn't happen. This is just more good old Tory fear-mongering. The only way a later term abortion would ever be performed in Canada is if it was a matter of life and death for the mother.

[Smallc]

I think Jonathon Kay had a point in the Post this morning, that in most northern European nations abortions are largely prohibited except in medical emergencies after about 12 weeks.

And here, they're largely not performed after 12 weeks outside of medical emergencies.

[Molly]

The United Nations appears to disagree with you. It seems to think abortion is a rather low on the list of importance for maternal health.

Oh right.... and the G8, and in fact Canada itself, was formed solely to play bobble-head to the UN?

Perhaps the fact that other collective international aid initiatives are so crotchbound in politics that they are disallowed from providing help when it's actually needed is what makes it so very important that the nations that like to believe they have actually entered the 21st century grow up and fill the gaps.

[Argus]

And here, they're largely not performed after 12 weeks outside of medical emergencies.

Then people should have no major objection to a law which bans them outside that period except for medical emergencies, right?

[Smallc]

Then people should have no major objection to a law which bans them outside that period except for medical emergencies, right?

Actually, I more believe that there's absolutely no purpose for it and it may in fact be negative. If people can't get abortions at medical facilities, it's been shown many will perform them on their own. That's something that I don't want.

[Molly]

Then people should have no major objection to a law which bans them outside that period except for medical emergencies, right?

At the very least, Ms. Somerville says, having any legislation, even one that does little to actually limit abortion access or popularity, sets a cultural tone about how a nation feels about something.

Read more: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2972995#ixzz0myCWa254

Are we a nation of buttinskis? If you get to make my medical/life decisions, then I demand a shot at making some of yours.

[madmax]

Well, I don't think Canada should be paying for the killing of unborn babies around the world. That's just my opinion.

You are entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to mine.

Nonsense. It's not an essential part of maternal health. It's only an essential part of radical liberalism. Serious mental and physical trauma can be the result of abortion procedures.

Keep on posting, you will wake up all the Pro Choice and Progressive Women who have been asleep for decades because the right to choose exists.

Serious Mental Trauma also exists when you give children up for adoption for both the Mother and the child.

Serious Physical trauma can occur because of a bad pregnancy or disease.

Canada is in the wrong on this one as are you.

That is my opinion.

[DFCaper]

what are the circumstances for which you advocate the need for laws? My understanding is that late term abortions are a most rare event in Canada... only some 0.4% of all abortions performed occurring after 20 weeks gestation - so called late-term abortions (a somewhat dated 2003 figure... if you have a more recent update to that figure, please provide). Within this rare 0.4% of all abortions category, just how many actual 'D&X techniques' are even performed within Canada - the so-called, "partial-birth" abortions?

If it's not done here , as a result of it being too immoral, then why not have a law either against it or at least making sure that the people of this country won't pay for it.

There is a large group of people in this country that thinks abortion is murder, not just a small routine procedure. And they fund this "murder".

I think the Liberals are missing the center of this country by not proposing at least some level of regulation. Instead they'll look like losers as usual under Iggy. I don't think they will gain much support on this issue as they are pushing it. I doubt that many people are going to vote Liberal instead of NDP on as a result of this fight, which his party even, is split on.

I wonder if this will be the end of the CPC pushing support to poor countries. Seems like Iggy won't let him look good doing it, so why bother?

[ToadBrother]

If it's not done here , as a result of it being too immoral, then why not have a law either against it or at least making sure that the people of this country won't pay for it.

Can I legislate your testicles?

[waldo]

If it's not done here , as a result of it being too immoral, then why not have a law either against it or at least making sure that the people of this country won't pay for it.

my understanding is that the reason some late-term abortions are performed 'elsewhere', relates to the specialized expertise requirements. If you can attest to a morality basis behind medical related decisions, please provide your foundation/citation.

There is a large group of people in this country that thinks abortion is murder, not just a small routine procedure. And they fund this "murder".

how big is your 'large group' of people that, as you say, "think abortion is murder"? What basis do you use to apply a legal founded ascription of "murder" to a fetus?

I think the Liberals are missing the center of this country by not proposing at least some level of regulation. Instead they'll look like losers as usual under Iggy. I don't think they will gain much support on this issue as they are pushing it. I doubt that many people are going to vote Liberal instead of NDP on as a result of this fight, which his party even, is split on.

you already carved out a "large group" of people as being against abortion (as murder)... do any of these overlap into your "center country group" that pines for abortion regulation? Do you also have numbers for this second of your carved out groups?

I wonder if this will be the end of the CPC pushing support to poor countries. Seems like Iggy won't let him look good doing it, so why bother?

so..... you would appear to (also) favour the STFU line... so as not to sully Harper's attempts to "look good" - oh my!

[waldo]

Can I legislate your testicles?

or Dancer's boner pills?

[ToadBrother]

or Dancer's boner pills?

I'm serious. There seem to be some people who are quite willing to carve a big legislative stamp into a woman's uterus, to compel her to live by their own codes of conduct, so I think the question is legitimate. If a woman's reproductive organs ultimately belong to the state, then what about testicles?

[waldo]

I'm serious. There seem to be some people who are quite willing to carve a big legislative stamp into a woman's uterus, to compel her to live by their own codes of conduct, so I think the question is legitimate. If a woman's reproductive organs ultimately belong to the state, then what about testicles?

mine was not a frivolous comment - one struck to highlight the fragility of Dancer's right to his boner pills... subject to the concerns of the Harper base that might presume to morally erect dysfunctional legislative impediments to his boner rights. Besides... might a states testicular grip ever match that of a woman... uhhh, never mind.

[M.Dancer]

Waldo is peppering his posts with bullshit again...

[DFCaper]

Can I legislate your testicles?

Are they not already? If my testicles release something, that I later want killed, I have no rights to that decision. I may have to pay big $ for 18 years+ because a woman disagreed. Or do you think making father forced to be responsible is wrong?

Unlike Waldo, I do respect that others have a different opinion than I about whether abortion is murder and think we a country should respect others opinions. I never argued against whether or not early abortion should or shouldn't be legal, not sure they should be free. But I think we have to still respect that a lot of people still think at that point it's murder.

my understanding is that the reason some late-term abortions are performed 'elsewhere', relates to the specialized expertise requirements. If you can attest to a morality basis behind medical related decisions, please provide your foundation/citation.

I don't know why letting a doctor's opinion have the power is seen as superior to some regulation. I believe that the doctor should make the decesion based on regulations. Regulations doesn't mean "making it illegal. Or is that what your fearing?

And if anybody caused the death of my pregnant wife's child (fetus), then I think it is more than just an assault on my wife. It's more than a lump of flesh that is no different than a pimple to us... I am not sure why that isn't understood?!?!?!!?

[ToadBrother]

Are they not already? If my testicles release something, that I later want killed, I have no rights to that decision. I may have to pay big $ for 18 years+ because a woman disagreed. Or do you think making father forced to be responsible is wrong?

Your testicles will not carry a fetus for nine months. The situations really are not comparable. Once a baby is born, then both mother and father have equal legal responsibilities. Prior to that point, it is only the woman.

Unlike Waldo, I do respect that others have a different opinion than I about whether abortion is murder and think we a country should respect others opinions. I never argued against whether or not early abortion should or shouldn't be legal, not sure they should be free. But I think we have to still respect that a lot of people still think at that point it's murder.

Societies are always faced with competing interests. In this case, the woman's right to control her own body outweighs your particular desire to force her hand.

I don't know why letting a doctor's opinion have the power is seen as superior to some regulation. I believe that the doctor should make the decesion based on regulations. Regulations doesn't mean "making it illegal. Or is that what your fearing?

Because a doctor is, to put it bluntly, a better judge than any particular rigid regulation. I certainly don't want serious medical decisions I have to make basically predetermined.

For instance, would you want a regulation requiring chemotherapy for a cancer you might develop? Wouldn't you say that your right to choose, and indeed your doctor's right to honor that decision, should outweigh a faceless regulatory framework?

And if anybody caused the death of my pregnant wife's child (fetus), then I think it is more than just an assault on my wife. It's more than a lump of flesh that is no different than a pimple to us... I am not sure why that isn't understood?!?!?!!?

Well, at least your more willing to state your beliefs than M. Dancer, who seems to want to dance around the issue. Ultimately, our society has decided that your particular private beliefs cannot override a woman's rights.

[DFCaper]

To answer the OP, I think STFU is totally classless and unacceptible for somebody in that position.

I do understand that she was warning against biting the hand that feeds, but do it with some class at least!!!

[ToadBrother]

To answer the OP, I think STFU is totally classless and unacceptible for somebody in that position.

I do understand that she was warning against biting the hand that feeds, but do it with some class at least!!!

I think it's a bit more than that. It strikes me as being a rather hysterical response. As a number of people pointed out, women's rights didn't happen because women kept their mouths shut. It took a lot of suffragettes getting arrested and making as big a fuss as they could manage to accomplish it.

[M.Dancer]

Well, at least your more willing to state your beliefs than M. Dancer, who seems to want to dance around the issue.

I am never unimpressed by the lack of reading comprehension displayed in these forums...you might want to re-read my two posts (now three) in this thread. For further reference, the search feature offers limitless opportunities to not look foolish.

[yarg]

This is a very typical women vs those bad men argument,

"Your testicles will not carry a fetus for nine months. The situations really are not comparable. Once a baby is born, then both mother and father have equal legal responsibilities. Prior to that point, it is only the woman."

This quote sums it up nicely, women want all of the autonomy to decide if your child lives or dies but then once it is born it is now your responsibility, how convenient to have complete control of your own body and then have the ability to make someone else pay for your decisions. We put limits on almost everything in society, but when it comes to women, nope can't do that, if women were so keen to exercise their own responsibility and autonomy there could be many fewer unwanted pregnancies in the first place. You want complete control over your body? than control it already, stop making the rest of us pay for your mistakes, you want complete responsibility? be responsible. It seems I can be made responsible for your choice, why can't you be responsible for yours, o right, your female, you are only truly responsible when you want to be, how convenient.

[ToadBrother]

This is a very typical women vs those bad men argument,

"Your testicles will not carry a fetus for nine months. The situations really are not comparable. Once a baby is born, then both mother and father have equal legal responsibilities. Prior to that point, it is only the woman."

This quote sums it up nicely, women want all of the autonomy to decide if your child lives or dies but then once it is born it is now your responsibility, how convenient to have complete control of your own body and then have the ability to make someone else pay for your decisions. We put limits on almost everything in society, but when it comes to women, nope can't do that, if women were so keen to exercise their own responsibility and autonomy there could be many fewer unwanted pregnancies in the first place. You want complete control over your body? than control it already, stop making the rest of us pay for your mistakes, you want complete responsibility? be responsible. It seems I can be made responsible for your choice, why can't you be responsible for yours, o right, your female, you are only truly responsible when you want to be, how convenient.

Blame evolution. Female placentals carry the fetus, the male does not. What you seem to want is this odd sort of freedom where a woman is free to choose... well nothing.

I don't exactly see any restrictions on who you pump your semen into, and yet you seem to want restrictions for women.

[ToadBrother]

I am never unimpressed by the lack of reading comprehension displayed in these forums...you might want to re-read my two posts (now three) in this thread. For further reference, the search feature offers limitless opportunities to not look foolish.

You keep saying you've posted the answer, but I look up and that's all your saying. So how about you treat me like an idiot (which you're already trying to do), and give me the evidence that elective and cosmetic procedures are the same.