Car Bomb found in Times Square

[bush_cheney2004]

...Do you simply, for example, ignore the effects of your Patriot Act? Since your government is obviously preoccupied with dealing with real-world threats (real or imagined, domestic or international), do you (also) assert that 99.9999% of Americans are oblivious to this, your governments preoccupation - and how it affects their daily lives, if even only by indirect cost allocations?

AW is correct, as most Americans live their lives as they have before, which included incorporating new risk mitigation behaviours in the face of new threats (i.e. HIV/AIDS). Your external view is from the hollow stubs you learn (and ape back) from American media.

[Guest American Woman]

no - the offered links directly aligned with, (1) a 2003 duct tape reference... the much hyped and comically disparaged 'sheepish response', that quite literally saw duct tape disappear from store shelves across the U.S., and (2) a 2009 reference to the historical 2004 manipulation of your country's threat levels for intended political election gain. Of course they're somewhat dated references. But, surely, you're not suggesting your country doesn't continue to issue regular threat alerts?... or, are you suggesting American's ignore it all, are oblivious to it all - that they've been lulled into a sense of complacency... since "you're fighting them over there, so you don't have to fight them over here!"

This post sums up your attitude perfectly. Either we are living in fear, and there's something wrong with that, or we are complacent, and there's something wrong with that, too. No middle ground at all; we're either fearful or complacent, and of course both are the wrong way to feel. We just can't win in your eyes.

Thanks for showing your true colors so clearly.

yours was the bold pronouncement that, "we are living the free life here in the States, free from the fear, hysteria, et al that others attribute to us".

That's because it's true. Sorry to disappoint you, but it's exactly how the vast majority are living their lives. I know the reality is a tough pill for you to swallow, but the disappointing fact is that we are living the free life here in the States, free from the fear, hysteria, et al that others attribute to us, just as I said; and a good life it is. Again, sorry about that. I know it hurts to hear it.

[Guest American Woman]

AW is correct, as most Americans live their lives as they have before, which included incorporating new risk mitigation behaviours in the face of new threats (i.e. HIV/AIDS). Your external view is from the hollow stubs you learn (and ape back) from American media.

Even those who did buy duct tape, in areas that are more likely to get hit, likely weren't "living in fear;" they were just following advice to 'be prepared.' Much like one makes sure there are candles and/or flashlights in the house if there's a chance a thunder storm will knock out the power. They aren't 'living in fear' of the thunder storm, just making sure they are prepared if need be.

As for where his view is coming from, I think it's largely based on his need to believe that life in the U.S. sucks.

Edited May 9, 2010 by American Woman

[waldo]

no - the offered links directly aligned with, (1) a 2003 duct tape reference... the much hyped and comically disparaged 'sheepish response', that quite literally saw duct tape disappear from store shelves across the U.S., and (2) a 2009 reference to the historical 2004 manipulation of your country's threat levels for intended political election gain. Of course they're somewhat dated references. But, surely, you're not suggesting your country doesn't continue to issue regular threat alerts?... or, are you suggesting American's ignore it all, are oblivious to it all - that they've been lulled into a sense of complacency... since "you're fighting them over there, so you don't have to fight them over here!"

This post sums up your attitude perfectly. Either we are living in fear, and there's something wrong with that, or we are complacent, and there's something wrong with that, too. No middle ground at all; we're either fearful or complacent, and of course both are the wrong way to feel. We just can't win in your eyes.

Thanks for showing your true colors so clearly.

interesting, you're the one attaching right versus wrong to however Americans go about their daily lives, by choice or oblivion... I've certainly not suggested either right/wrong. That you would ascribe 'tude' to simply linking to past events in your history... or asking you a simple question, is quite telling - clearly showing your own, as you say, "true colours".

yours was the bold pronouncement that, "we are living the free life here in the States, free from the fear, hysteria, et al that others attribute to us". But let's leave those somewhat dated link references for what they are... let's not have me scurry about for easily found current examples of (some) Americans preoccupied with a terrorist threat (real or imagined)... let's simply accept your assertion that, today, you speak for how 99.9999% of Americans live their daily lives. What's changed in these passing years since 2003/2004 to allow Americans to, "live the free life, free from fear, hysteria, et al"? Do you simply, for example, ignore the effects of your Patriot Act? Since your government is obviously preoccupied with dealing with real-world threats (real or imagined, domestic or international), do you (also) assert that 99.9999% of Americans are oblivious to this, your governments preoccupation - and how it affects their daily lives, if even only by indirect cost allocations? Is this the reason, the foundation for your expressed 99.9999% certainty?

That's because it's true. Sorry to disappoint you, but it's exactly how the vast majority are living their lives. I know the reality is a tough pill for you to swallow, but the disappointing fact is that we are living the free life here in the States, free from the fear, hysteria, et al that others attribute to us, just as I said; and a good life it is. Again, sorry about that. I know it hurts to hear it.

certainly your prerogative... however, it's equally telling that you refused to answer pointed questions. It would have been most insightful to read your balancing of lost American freedoms associated with your Patriot Act in the face of your bold pronouncement of "living the free life". It would have been equally insightful to have such a self-pronounced progressive, as yourself, comment on, for example, Tea Party hysteria, or Arizona immigration law hysteria - balanced against your bold pronouncement of "living free from hysteria". As for the personal disappointment you would assign me, save it for yourself... I certainly don't give a rats ass, other than to point out the hypocrisy and/or failure of your posts/thoughts.

[WIP]

All true, and who's denying it? Thus my questioning who it is that's presenting this as another potential 9-11, and I see you had no response for that.

Tune in to Hannity or Limbaugh by accident some time; every incident that involves a guy with a beard is the next 9/11.

As I already explained, he was not acting on behalf of a group with a stated mission. No group has declared a jihad-type mission against the IRS, on which he was acting. There is no ongoing problem with bombs, planes, explosives, etc., regarding IRS workers, being carried out by a group of people who feel it's their mission to do so.

And how do you explain the threats against census workers and federal employees. Remember the building that Tim McVeigh picked as a target in Oklahoma? You see no connection with right wing rhetoric that wants to destroy the federal government!

There is a connection between lunatic emotional zenophobic rhetoric and the occasional nut who is inspired by it. Many of these hard right libertarian activists are promoting the position that income tax is unlawful in itself, so random attacks of this type are likely to happen, just as the anti-abortion rhetoric inspires crowds who harass abortion clinic staff and occasionally turn out someone who is willing to pull the trigger. I'll say it again, your country has a greater threat to democracy and public order from within than it has from any foreign terrorist group.

[WIP]

Terrorists have been a staple in US history....the more recent context just changes the scale and politics. Or to use a favourite Canadian term, the "optics" do not change the basic tasks of threat assessment and allocation of limited resources to prevent attacks by individuals or groups. The biggest change has been the adjustment of expectations to include NBCR attacks, even though conventional bombings will do just fine for a terrorist's purpose. Bail for indicted suspects is part of the post event politics and hysteria....the fairness critics wouldn't have lasted very long in the political environment surrounding WW2 America and associated "loss of freedoms".

One difference is that WWII was a war defined with a clear goal in mind. This War On Terror is an endless war, and the changes to personal rights and liberties are not likely to be put back.

[bush_cheney2004]

Even those who did buy duct tape, in areas that are more likely to get hit, likely weren't "living in fear;" they were just following advice to 'be prepared.' Much like one makes sure there are candles and/or flashlights in the house if there's a chance a thunder storm will knock out the power. They aren't 'living in fear' of the thunder storm, just making sure they are prepared if need be.

Agreed...I live in tornado country and we have such a kit ready to go. Had to use it in 1998 when power was lost for four days (years before 9/11/01).

As for where his view is coming from, I think it's largely based on his need to believe that life in the U.S. sucks.

That is where parroting back American media comes in....unless actually living/working in the USA, such opinions are rooted in observations made while looking over the fence...but not at their "neighbors"...but rather at their neighbors' television and print media. They often don't know the difference.

Edited May 10, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[waldo]

That is where parroting back American media comes in....unless actually living/working in the USA, such opinions are rooted in observations made while looking over the fence...but not at their "neighbors"...but rather at their neighbors' television and print media. They often don't know the difference.

oh my! In that both you and AMWoman have now vilified your media as the evil source of misinformation falsely attributing lost freedoms, a fearful existence and increased hysteria... just what do you (both) base your widespread (99.99999%) certainties on? I mean, c'mon... just how all encompassing are your psychic powers of observation?

[bush_cheney2004]

oh my! In that both you and AMWoman have now vilified your media as the evil source of misinformation falsely attributing lost freedoms, a fearful existence and increased hysteria... just what do you (both) base your widespread (99.99999%) certainties on? I mean, c'mon... just how all encompassing are your psychic powers of observation?

No matter what such powers may be....they are more relevant than your vicarious experience and relentless dance with American alphabet soup, from NASA to NBC. Far from villifying, American media represents one of the most powerful tools for a global hegemon, with no other nation so utterly overwhelmed than is Canada and some Canadians. "Americans are stupid....hysterical...panicked...ignorant", etc., is a reflection of your own insecurity over anything the 'merkins may or may not do. Just ignore the Americans....if you can.

Edited May 10, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[waldo]

No matter what such powers may be....they are more relevant than your vicarious experience and relentless dance with American alphabet soup, from NASA to NBC. Far from villifying, American media represents one of the most powerful tools for a global hegemon, with no other nation so utterly overwhelmed than is Canada and some Canadians. "Americans are stupid....hyterical...panicked...ignorant", etc., is a reflection of your own insecurity over anything the 'merkins may or may not do. Just ignore the Americans....if you can.

that's right... everyone on MLW lives vicariously through your gracious enlightenment!

you can't have it both ways; you can't disparage your media for providing "outsiders" an incorrect reflection of Americans, while at the same time presuming to showcase your media as the powerful conveyor of American hegemony. (Some) Americans are stupid... (some) Americans are hysterical... (some) Americans are panicked... (some) Americans are ignorant..... and, yes, (some) Americans, as in you, are insecure in your own presumed confidence. Your continued parody of yourself is a testament to that very fact.

[bush_cheney2004]

that's right... everyone on MLW lives vicariously through your gracious enlightenment!

Yet you cannot champion your AGW cause without such American "enlightenment". There is ample evidence of your dependence on those "stupid" Americans with every post.

I am reminded of a question presented to me by a Saudi naval officer..."Why do you have 31 flavors of ice cream"...after visiting a Baskin-Robbins. "Simple", I answered, "because we can".

you can't have it both ways; you can't disparage your media for providing "outsiders" an incorrect reflection of Americans, while at the same time presuming to showcase your media as the powerful conveyor of American hegemony. (Some) Americans are stupid... (some) Americans are hysterical... (some) Americans are panicked... (some) Americans are ignorant..... and, yes, (some) Americans, as in you, are insecure in your own presumed confidence. Your continued parody of yourself is a testament to that very fact.

Yes we can have it both ways...that is the magic of a hegemon. While your fellow citizens trade banter about the wisdom of funding the very modest CBC for domestic consumption and protection of the Canadian identity, the hegemon laughs and floods your bandwidth with every imaginable idea, good or bad...right or wrong. Americans come from all over the world and dwarf anything in Canada for scale and diversity.

Now go back to mining references and content from those "stupid" American websites (NASA, NOAA, USDA, NAS, etc.).

Edited May 10, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[Sir Bandelot]

with no other nation so utterly overwhelmed than is Canada and some Canadians. "Americans are stupid....hysterical...panicked...ignorant", etc., is a reflection of your own insecurity over anything the 'merkins may or may not do.

I don't think thats true. While most of us here on this board are Canadians, we talk about many things, not just America. Any country that is a current topic of interest is discussed. America is our nearest neighbour, biggest trading partner and has the largest economy, so the topic comes up fairly frequently in international affairs. But that's all.

In fact in normal daily life here in Canada, at work or on our own time the topic of America rarely comes up in conversation at all. At least, thats my experience. So the idea that America is hugely important to the Canadian psyche is perhaps one of your misconceptions.

Also I believe there is a tendency here to tease or provoke certain American members, usually just for fun. Don't let it go to your head.

[bush_cheney2004]

I don't think thats true. While most of us here on this board are Canadians, we talk about many things, not just America. Any country that is a current topic of interest is discussed. America is our nearest neighbour, biggest trading partner and has the largest economy, so the topic comes up fairly frequently in international affairs. But that's all.

It's not just here at MLW...it is part of Canadian DNA ever since PM Trudeau announced it was so. Many Canadians can't even define an identity or value system without referring to Americans.

In fact in normal daily life here in Canada, at work or on our own time the topic of America rarely comes up in conversation at all. At least, thats my experience. So the idea that America is hugely important to the Canadian psyche is perhaps one of your misconceptions.

So I should just ignore the other indicators in Canadian media, business, health care, military, satellite data, politics, sports, etc., etc.?

Also I believe there is a tendency here to tease or provoke certain American members, usually just for fun. Don't let it go to your head.

That's just more of the same obsession with America and Americans.

[waldo]

Yet you cannot champion your AGW cause without such American "enlightenment". There is ample evidence of your dependence on those "stupid" Americans with every post.

I am reminded of a question presented to me by a Saudi naval officer..."Why do you have 31 flavors of ice cream"...after visiting a Baskin-Robbins. "Simple", I answered, "because we can".

strawman time, hey? The sure sign of the vanquished!

Yes we can have it both ways...that is the magic of a hegemon. While your fellow citizens trade banter about the wisdom of funding the very modest CBC for domestic consumption and protection of the Canadian identity, the hegemon laughs and floods your bandwidth with every imaginable idea, good or bad...right or wrong. Americans come from all over the world and dwarf anything in Canada for scale and diversity.

Now go back to mining references and content from those "stupid" American websites (NASA, NOAA, USDA, NAS, etc.).

why, of course... your standard OP is to play both sides of your hypocritical statements against each other. Buddy, pick one. Either your media correctly shapes an outsiders view on the everyday life of an American (and your disparagement of your media was ill founded), or it incorrectly projects your vaunted hegemony. There is no magic in your media doing both well, both poorly or one well and one poorly.

and yes, as stated, your personal insecurity has you holding firmly to your misconception that the U.S. is hugely important to the Canadian psyche. It's not - get over it!

[bush_cheney2004]

strawman time, hey? The sure sign of the vanquished!

Not a strawman at all....it is the American experience that you do not know, anymore than I would know the equivalent Canadian experience. Accept your inherent limitation.

why, of course... your standard OP is to play both sides of your hypocritical statements against each other. Buddy, pick one. Either your media correctly shapes an outsiders view on the everyday life of an American (and your disparagement of your media was ill founded), or it incorrectly projects your vaunted hegemony. There is no magic in your media doing both well, both poorly or one well and one poorly.

The magic in American media is self evident....you consume it like candy.

and yes, as stated, your personal insecurity has you holding firmly to your misconception that the U.S. is hugely important to the Canadian psyche. It's not - get over it!

Can you go a week without any reference to Americans or their institutions of government and business? I think not. That MLW has a dedicated forum just for "US Politics" and cannot contain the spill-over to nearly every other area is proof enough of that. Some members here are still fighting the decision to invade Iraq! LOL!

[Sir Bandelot]

It's not just here at MLW...it is part of Canadian DNA ever since PM Trudeau announced it was so. Many Canadians can't even define an identity or value system without referring to Americans.

It's part of the problem of a multi-cultural society. But then, which American realy has the right to define an identity or value system, for Americans?

So I should just ignore the other indicators in Canadian media, business, health care, military, satellite data, politics, sports, etc., etc.?

I don't know. But I believe you more or less just told us to ignore the indicators in your own media.

Physician, heal thyself...

[bush_cheney2004]

It's part of the problem of a multi-cultural society. But then, which American realy has the right to define an identity or value system, for Americans?

All Americans have that right...and come from all over the world to do so in their own terms. America is not just a place...it is an idea. The US was "Multi-cultural" before Canada was even a sovereign country. Canadians who understand this have joined the party south of the border.

I don't know. But I believe you more or less just told us to ignore the indicators in your own media.

Physician, heal thyself...

Because I know that you can't ignore such media....and many times lack the context of experience to understand what is being reported. So we get some Canadians championing JFK while not having a single clue about what his administration actually did.

Edited May 10, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[Sir Bandelot]

Because I know that you can't ignore such media....and many times lack the context of experience to understand what is being reported. So we get some Canadians championing JFK while not having a single clue about what his administration actually did.

No person can know everything about every place in the world. And what we know could become irrelevant in the future, as people and places change.

I imagine at least part of the reason that you come here is to learn about Canadians as well. And you have formed your own opinions, generalizations. Some of it might even be true.

[waldo]

Not a strawman at all....it is the American experience that you do not know, anymore than I would know the equivalent Canadian experience. Accept your inherent limitation.

no - I've lived in, worked in and traveled extensively throughout the U.S. on both personal and business purpose... years and years on end of travel. I've worked with and continue to work with Americans - on a daily basis. I have several relatives and friends scattered throughout the US. Mine is an observation born out of personal experience intertwined with the influences of your media.

The magic in American media is self evident....you consume it like candy.

no, I don't. If anything, of recent years, my preferences have seen me drawn more to British, Australian and South-East Asian sources.

Can you go a week without any reference to Americans or their institutions of government and business? I think not. That MLW has a dedicated forum just for "US Politics" and cannot contain the spill-over to nearly every other area is proof enough of that. Some members here are still fighting the decision to invade Iraq! LOL!

are you so lacking in self-confidence that you continually need your ego stroked by anonymous MLW posters fawning over your incessant need to reinforce your country's significance upon them? Again... your personal insecurity has you holding firmly to your misconception that the U.S. is hugely important to the Canadian psyche. It's not - get over it!

[Michael Hardner]

It's not just here at MLW...it is part of Canadian DNA ever since PM Trudeau announced it was so. Many Canadians can't even define an identity or value system without referring to Americans.

While it's true that this is lame, it's also understandable for a country that exists as a sidekick to the world's cultural behemoth.

And by the way, asking the average American about their national identity will produce something definite but equally lame, like "freedom" or some catchphrase. If you're going to slag a country, slag all countries.

[bush_cheney2004]

No person can know everything about every place in the world. And what we know could become irrelevant in the future, as people and places change.

Nor are they expected to. Canadian perceptions of Americans are largely returned with complete indifference.

I imagine at least part of the reason that you come here is to learn about Canadians as well. And you have formed your own opinions, generalizations. Some of it might even be true.

Any goals along those lines were quickly dashed to hell once I realized how incestuous was the impact of American "culture" on Canada, except perhaps for Quebec, which is a bit more insulated by choice (and language). The bottom line for me is that America and Americans will/must pursue their own interests regardless of what other nationals feel or think is best or true to their understanding of "Founding Father" intentions, and their own motives. America does not have to live up to their expectations.

Edited May 10, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[bush_cheney2004]

While it's true that this is lame, it's also understandable for a country that exists as a sidekick to the world's cultural behemoth.

Why is it "understandable"? Mexico does not have this problem...neither do the Bahamas. Cuba does but for a different reason. It is made more remarkable by the wholesale rejection of "Damn Americans....I hate those bastards" even as their culture is steadfastly embraced, even as a foil.

And by the way, asking the average American about their national identity will produce something definite but equally lame, like "freedom" or some catchphrase. If you're going to slag a country, slag all countries.

Make no mistake....an American will not likely invoke any attribute of Canada in defining his/her identity. Arrogant and confident of such things from beginning to end, an American will indeed invoke "freedom" and "liberty". The USA began by rejecting your (historical Canadian) assessment of the importance of such things.

[Sir Bandelot]

Canadian perceptions of Americans are largely returned with complete indifference.

Now thats a load of crap. The Americans on this forum are very sensitive to any Canadian misconceptions, and feel strongly compelled to clear them up. Admint it, you old goat. It is in fact the very reason for your existence here...

[bush_cheney2004]

no - I've lived in, worked in and traveled extensively throughout the U.S. on both personal and business purpose... years and years on end of travel. I've worked with and continue to work with Americans - on a daily basis. I have several relatives and friends scattered throughout the US. Mine is an observation born out of personal experience intertwined with the influences of your media.

That's what they all say...."America sucks"...but I work there on a daily basis. "My Uncle Joe is an American"....big frickin' deal...you ain't!

no, I don't. If anything, of recent years, my preferences have seen me drawn more to British, Australian and South-East Asian sources.

Of course...we all await your observations of how much they "suck" too.

are you so lacking in self-confidence that you continually need your ego stroked by anonymous MLW posters fawning over your incessant need to reinforce your country's significance upon them? Again... your personal insecurity has you holding firmly to your misconception that the U.S. is hugely important to the Canadian psyche. It's not - get over it!

I knew you could not go for one hour....let alone one week. The USA is not hugely important to the Canadian psyche...just yours.

[bush_cheney2004]

Now thats a load of crap. The Americans on this forum are very sensitive to any Canadian misconceptions, and feel strongly compelled to clear them up. Admint it, you old goat. It is in fact the very reason for your existence here...

Dude...there are 300,000,000 Americans....how many of them do you think give a rat's ass about such matters or would take the time to pursue this MLW engagement? Most Americans dont' care, don't know, and don't care that they don't know.