Car Bomb found in Times Square

[Guest American Woman]

...I believe there is a tendency here to tease or provoke certain American members, usually just for fun.

So in other words, there's a tendency here to break the rules where Americans are concerned?

Do not post inflammatory remarks just to annoy people.

Why anyone would have the need to do that is beyond me, but it seems to indicate some sort of problem regarding the U.S./Americans. I have no desire to "tease" or "provoke" Canadians, so it's nice to know that the respect isn't mutual, which is exactly as I suspected (so thanks for the confirmation).

Funny, though, how you whine about not getting respect yourself.

[Michael Hardner]

Far more significant than the veracity of your claim is the energy expended to make it in the first place. Why is this significant...that you be so knowledeable about America? To be America "junior"?

To get approval and recognition from Americans, as always. ( I am naturally obsequious and self-deprecating. )

To mollify your continued pressing on this:

Many Canadians can't even define an identity or value system without referring to Americans.

...and to provide a measure of explanation as to why that might happen. You have already acknowledged that you have no idea what it's like to be marginalized.

[bush_cheney2004]

Why anyone would have the need to do that is beyond me, but it seems to indicate some sort of problem regarding the U.S./Americans. I have no desire to "tease" or "provoke" Canadians, so it's nice to know that the respect isn't mutual, which is exactly as I suspected (so thanks for the confirmation).

Funny, though, how you whine about not getting respect yourself.

I think some of the other members would prefer that Americans were not here at all, then it could be their little private enclave for slagging and giggling to each other about those "stoopid Americans". Others probably recognize the value of diverse opinion coming from the object of their disdain or worship.

As I have said before.....all Americans could leave MLW today, but America would remain in spades.

[bush_cheney2004]

To get approval and recognition from Americans, as always. ( I am naturally obsequious and self-deprecating. )

I see...this is the common "cloaking" behaviour observed in many Canadians who venture into the American realm...see Michael Ignatieff. True story: During NBC's coverage of the Toronto Vancouver games, a "Today" on-air host was "outed" as a Canadian! I guess they hide this for professional reasons....like Peter Jennings.

To mollify your continued pressing on this:

The observed behaviour is fascinating....the reason very elusive.

...and to provide a measure of explanation as to why that might happen. You have already acknowledged that you have no idea what it's like to be marginalized.

Nope...not a clue. As I have noted in the past, it must be strange to grow up hearing the value of your currency quoted in 'US dollars'....each and every day.

Edited May 11, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[Guest American Woman]

I think some of the other members would prefer that Americans were not here at all, then it could be their little private enclave for slagging and giggling to each other about those "stoopid Americans".

There are a few here with a pretty childish mentality when it comes to the U.S./Americans, and I'd say purposely provoking Americans for the fun of it would fall into that category.

Others probably recognize the value of diverse opinion coming from the object of their disdain or worship.

I agree completely. There are Canadians here whom I totally enjoy conversing with and learning from what they have to say. It's my reason for being here. Canada is our closest neighbor, and I'm interested in what's happening there as well as discussing what's going on in the States, getting a non-American take on things. And by that, I mean serious discussions with those who want to learn more about the U.S. than what's in the mainstream media, too. In other words, I enjoy and even exchange, and I'm happy to say I do get that with some members from both sides of the political spectrum.

So my comment was strictly in regards to the Sir Bandelot types, of whom there are a few in this thread. It wasn't meant as an all encompassing observation by any means, but it confirms what I've felt regarding a few posters here.

As I have said before.....all Americans could leave MLW today, but America would remain in spades.

There aren't even that many Americans on the board. You and I seem to be the only ones who post here regularly these days.

Edited May 10, 2010 by American Woman

[waldo]

again, your need to invoke your boogeyman 'stoopid America' strawman is quite telling.

Stoopid Americans....stoopid voters....stoopid leaders....stoopid policies. But holy shit Batman, waldo loves their stoopid data and institutions when it comes to AGW.

reinforcing your strawman, hey? Again, you seem to be the only poster... the only poster... invoking the 'stoopid'! As before, strawman invocation - truly the sign of the vanquished.

of course you're having a great time - you simply don't get that you've actually become the parody of yourself. Your self-proclaimed enlightened sarcasm - isn't enlightening and it isn't sarcasm. Your most juvenile act belies your personal inadequacies... it's the single reason for your Saskatchewan outing. No self-respecting MLW member could actually believe a self-described "arrogant Ugly American", would live out his day-to-day existence fawning for adulation from any sycophant willing to give him the time of day. You also fail to recognize the obvious great sport you present... after all, where other than on MLW could we daily observe your ass being kicked, big time!

But I am not from Saskatchewan...you got sucked into Bubber's schtick. If it is juvenile to note every time that you fart yankee doodle dandy, it is certainly worth it.

Says the member with an actual dedicated MLW poll and votes by members making you the laughing stock.

oh no, certainly not. Bubber's schtick, as you refer to it, was a needed highlight to a most obvious, yet understated reality... that no one could believe that a real American could be as 'stoopid' as you in presuming to pass yourself off as the self-described "arrogant Ugly American", day in-day out, years on end (15K+ posts worth), hell bent with resolute determination, on chastising any MLW member who might choose to criticize "the land of home of the brave free... uhhh... whatever".

[waldo]

So in other words, there's a tendency here to break the rules where Americans are concerned?

Do not post inflammatory remarks just to annoy people.

Why anyone would have the need to do that is beyond me, but it seems to indicate some sort of problem regarding the U.S./Americans. I have no desire to "tease" or "provoke" Canadians, so it's nice to know that the respect isn't mutual, which is exactly as I suspected (so thanks for the confirmation).

Funny, though, how you whine about not getting respect yourself.

this is refreshing - we don't often read an American defensively invoking 'rules of engagement' (take it to the UN baby!)

[Bob]

There are good, decent, pious Muslims. Please don't generalize. Please don't jump to conclusions.

What conclusion did I jump to? I never said anything even remotely suggesting that there aren't good, decent, and pious Muslims out there. You are displaying a big part of the problem regarding political dialogue about issues that are strongly associated with particular cultural/ethnic/religious groups.

If make a post about an Islamic fundamentalist (i.e. the recent Times Square bomb plot), suddenly I'm describing all Muslims with a negative brush? Come on, get serious.

[Bob]

While I generally agree with your point, i.e. religious-based terrorism is different, some of what you said isn`t right.

No group has declared jihad against the IRS but who has declared jihad against America ? The answer is: various extremists have. And although nobody has declared jihad against the IRS there are domestic groups in the US that arm themselves against the government. So there are more similarities between domestic terrorism and external terrorism than you let on.

The external threat, though, is taken more seriously and it should be.

I'm not sure there are many similarities between domestic groups that "arm themselves against the government" and Islamic terrorist groups. The former seems to be a collection of groups that is big on gun culture and self-sufficiency with respect to defense, and the latter is a collection of groups that perceives Islam as being under attack by America and its allies and has, for decades, carried out various forms of terrorism killing many thousands of people around the world.

Perhaps you can elaborate more on what the similarities are between these two groups?

[bush_cheney2004]

oh no, certainly not. Bubber's schtick, as you refer to it, was a needed highlight to a most obvious, yet understated reality... that no one could believe that a real American could be as 'stoopid' as you in presuming to pass yourself off as the self-described "arrogant Ugly American", day in-day out, years on end (15K+ posts worth), hell bent with resolute determination, on chastising any MLW member who might choose to criticize "the land of home of the brave free... uhhh... whatever".

..but has yet to be subjected to a MLW peer poll and overwhelming rejection of method and purpose as was member "waldo". How do you reconcile this fact...by ignoring it?

Criticize away...it gives you purpose....as does my prickly retorts that cut to the quick. If you can't stand the heat....

Edited May 11, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[Guest American Woman]

I'm not sure there are many similarities between domestic groups that "arm themselves against the government" and Islamic terrorist groups.

There aren't similarities. Attacking civilians, feeling the duty to kill as many civilians as possible, is different from having a gripe with one's government. Furthermore, unless there have been a number of attacks against the U.S. government by U.S. citizens that I haven't heard about, again, there are no similarities.

The former seems to be a collection of groups that is big on gun culture and self-sufficiency with respect to defense, and the latter is a collection of groups that perceives Islam as being under attack by America and its allies and has, for decades, carried out various forms of terrorism killing many thousands of people around the world.

At least those who target the government/government workers are targeting those they see as at fault. Killing a four year old on a plane going to Disney World is not a "similar situation" at all.

So I agree with you. There really are no similarities as there is a huge difference between acting on grievances with one's government and going after civilians who have nothing to do with one's grievances.

Edited May 10, 2010 by American Woman

[Sir Bandelot]

So in other words, there's a tendency here to break the rules where Americans are concerned?

Do not post inflammatory remarks just to annoy people.

Why anyone would have the need to do that is beyond me, but it seems to indicate some sort of problem regarding the U.S./Americans. I have no desire to "tease" or "provoke" Canadians, so it's nice to know that the respect isn't mutual, which is exactly as I suspected (so thanks for the confirmation).

You're guilty of making provocative statements too, physician.

And I can go back and point them all out, to me and everyone else.

[Guest American Woman]

You're guilty of making provocative statements too, physician.

And I can go back and point them all out, to me and everyone else.

You do that, since you're making the accusation; and while you're at it, tackle the "just for fun" aspect of it.

You've proven to me that you are exactly what I thought you were. Thank you for that.

[Bob]

There aren't similarities. Attacking civilians, feeling the duty to kill as many civilians as possible, is different from having a gripe with one's government. Furthermore, unless there have been a number of attacks against the U.S. government by U.S. citizens that I haven't heard about, again, there are no similarities.

At least those who target the government/government workers are targeting those they see as at fault. Killing a four year old on a plane going to Disney World is not a "similar situation" at all.

So I agree with you. There really are no similarities as there is a huge difference between acting on grievances with one's government and going after civilians who have nothing to do with one's grievances.

We're on the same page here. We've both ignored the most important distinction between these two groups, perhaps because it's so obvious. Even though it's very obvious, I'll mention it - we cannot compare the volume and viciousness of the atrocities committed by Islamic terrorism over the past several decades to that of right-wing/conservative/Christian extremists. Yes, there have been abortion clinic bombings and Oklahoma City and some other weird things like the Heaven's Gate and Waco massacres, but they pale in comparison to the endless list of attacks from Islamic fundamentalist groups.

To Michael Hardner - it's just silly to compare these two groups and draw any serious parallels. I sure hope American and Canadian intelligence agencies have more human resources dedicated to combating Islamic terrorism than the other types of terrorism.

[Michael Hardner]

I see...this is the common "cloaking" behaviour observed in many Canadians who venture into the American realm...see Michael Ignatieff. True story: During NBC's coverage of the Toronto games, a "Today" on-air host was "outed" as a Canadian! I guess they hide this for professional reasons....like Peter Jennings.

Of course people hide this fact, much as people hide their religion or odd hobbies such as hunting beaver.

The observed behaviour is fascinating....the reason very elusive.

Only elusive to those who have never played the part of outsider.

Nope...not a clue. As I have noted in the past, it must be strange to grow up hearing the value of your currency quoted in 'US dollars'....each and every day.

Stranger still to discover that the oft-cited differences between your country and another just aren't there. Well... have you been to Canada ? Don't you find it odd to be in a country so much like your own that you blend in with residents without effort. That locals may stop you to ask directions ?

[Michael Hardner]

I'm not sure there are many similarities between domestic groups that "arm themselves against the government" and Islamic terrorist groups. The former seems to be a collection of groups that is big on gun culture and self-sufficiency with respect to defense, and the latter is a collection of groups that perceives Islam as being under attack by America and its allies and has, for decades, carried out various forms of terrorism killing many thousands of people around the world.

There are some differences.

Perhaps you can elaborate more on what the similarities are between these two groups?

At the core they're resentful luddites who believe that violence is a correct response to the loss of their way of life.

[Sir Bandelot]

You do that, since you're making the accusation; and while you're at it, tackle the "just for fun" aspect of it.

You've proven to me that you are exactly what I thought you were. Thank you for that.

There's a lot of provocative posts happening in this forum. I prefer not to do that, not to attack a person. but I still make mistakes. Look I don't want to upset you or give you a bad day. If that's the case, I'm sorry.

[Michael Hardner]

At least those who target the government/government workers are targeting those they see as at fault. Killing a four year old on a plane going to Disney World is not a "similar situation" at all.

So I agree with you. There really are no similarities as there is a huge difference between acting on grievances with one's government and going after civilians who have nothing to do with one's grievances.

The OK City Bomber blew up a daycare, remember ?

[Michael Hardner]

To Michael Hardner - it's just silly to compare these two groups and draw any serious parallels. I sure hope American and Canadian intelligence agencies have more human resources dedicated to combating Islamic terrorism than the other types of terrorism.

I expect extremists are monitored according to the scale of the threat. How else would it be done ?

[bush_cheney2004]

Of course people hide this fact, much as people hide their religion or odd hobbies such as hunting beaver.

Gee...I have never felt the need to hide such things. I also have never given a commencement speech at Canadian university...pretending to be Canadian (like Mr. Ignatieff).

Only elusive to those who have never played the part of outsider.

Agreed...and self inflicted limitation. Outsider from what/where? Should I feel as an "outsider" to China, Russia, or Burundi?

Stranger still to discover that the oft-cited differences between your country and another just aren't there. Well... have you been to Canada ? Don't you find it odd to be in a country so much like your own that you blend in with residents without effort. That locals may stop you to ask directions ?

Of course I've been to Canada, keenly aware of my "foreign" status. I did not "blend in at all"....the locals were afraid that I might rob them or rape their beavers.

[Michael Hardner]

Agreed...and self inflicted limitation. Outsider from what/where? Should I feel as an "outsider" to China, Russia, or Burundi?

Nobody is telling you how you "should" feel. I've seen Americans so comfortable with themselves that they were trying to order in English in non English speaking countries. But you might feel like an outsider there, or elsewhere - maybe even at a leftist rally in America itself for example.

Of course I've been to Canada, keenly aware of my "foreign" status. I did not "blend in at all"....the locals were afraid that I might rob them or rape their beavers.

Maybe keenly aware of your foreign status translates to feeling like an outsider. If you didn't blend in, it wasn't because of your nationality, unless you truly stand out, i.e. distinct accent, large T-Shirt of Dale Earnhardt riding an eagle to heaven etc.

[bush_cheney2004]

Nobody is telling you how you "should" feel. I've seen Americans so comfortable with themselves that they were trying to order in English in non English speaking countries. But you might feel like an outsider there, or elsewhere - maybe even at a leftist rally in America itself for example.

Perfect example....as they will still take the American's "English speaking" dollars. Same as a Timmy's near the border.

Maybe keenly aware of your foreign status translates to feeling like an outsider. If you didn't blend in, it wasn't because of your nationality, unless you truly stand out, i.e. distinct accent, large T-Shirt of Dale Earnhardt riding an eagle to heaven etc.

No...it was mostly my dark skin and nationality....don't kid yourself about 1980's Canada. I felt like a "foreigner" because I was a "foreigner". No need to hide or cloak myself as some Canadians do....I wasn't trying to move there for better television programming.

Edited May 10, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[Michael Hardner]

No...it was mostly my dark skin and nationality....don't kid yourself about 1980's Canada. I felt like a "foreigner" because I was a "foreigner".

Maybe nobody else thought so. How dark is your skin ? Certainly there were/are places where skin tone makes a difference.

No need to hide or cloak myself as some Canadians do....I wasn't trying to move there for better television programming.

That would be about the dumbest thing I ever heard, unless you were moving there from Albania.

[bush_cheney2004]

Maybe nobody else thought so. How dark is your skin ? Certainly there were/are places where skin tone makes a difference.

Dark enough to spook Canadians at the time. As for how dark...you must be joking.

That would be about the dumbest thing I ever heard, unless you were moving there from Albania.

Should I have bonded with the locals to prove the concept of universal man and the foolishness of nationalism, even as I retired each night to my war machine flying the stars and stripes?

[Sir Bandelot]

I know them boys on the east coast are pretty racist, even now.

Reminds me of when I was in PEI about 4 years ago, and my car had a problem with the alternator. I pulled into a repair shop and just as I opened the door I could here them talking inside, and some guy goes right out loud "... a goddamn N*gger!" Then they all turned and looked at me, totally shocked, mouths open.

Good thing I wasn't one, I thought at the time.

Edited May 10, 2010 by Sir Bandelot