The CBC -What to do

kimmy · May 1, 2010

I should add that the most succesful CBC shows are the ones that are as far removed from Americana as can be...

The Jr Forest Rangers (Joe Two Rivers)

Don Messier's Jubilee (killed even though it was the highest rated in their time slot)

Front Page Challenge (It's Betty Kennedy)

The Beachcombers

The Plouffe Famity (in both languages)

Les Boys ...

A few of those are before my time, but for more recent examples I would add "North of 60" and "Little Mosque" to the list. (And, while not a CBC production, "Corner Gas" fits the trend as well.)

Dramas set in Canada's big cities tend to come across as an imitation of American programming, and usually a poor imitation at best.

-k

Smallc · May 1, 2010

Dramas set in Canada's big cities tend to come across as an imitation of American programming, and usually a poor imitation at best.

There are notable exceptions, such as Flashpiont, Republic of Doyle, and to a certain extent, The Border.

kimmy · May 1, 2010

I wouldn't call that particular example leading.

hmmmm.

The show was called "Zoey" or something that began with a 'Z'.

I remember it being something starting with a "Z"... but sadly I can't recall any more than that. I only saw it the one time, but I was entertained and impressed at the idea. This is actually something that CBC could do, and do cheaply, and actually kind of fits in with the idea that CBC should be helping Canadians communicate with each other.

For a hint of what CBC can be, check out CBC Radio 3. It's inventive, fun, cheap, and mainstream all at once - a breath of fresh air.

It's what CBC could be, but isn't. I have been told to "check out CBC Radio 3" before, and have declined. To me, if they are going to call it "radio", then I should be able to listen to it using a "radio". I mean, they do call it "Canada's national broadcaster", not "Canada's national podcaster." If I am sitting at my computer streaming audio, there is a whole world full of radio stations for me to listen to, and all of them have to compete with videos of cats flushing toilets and so-on. Do I need to listen to Toronto indie bands when I could be listening to indie bands from Seattle and San Francisco, or watching LOLcats?

Just seems typical of the CBC, paying lip-service to the idea but not actually committing to it. It used to be that CBC would play music I would to listen to ...if I was in the mood to listen to radio at 3am. Now I can listen to it any time I want, but they're competing in an arena when I can listen to anything else I want too, any time I want to.

-k

kimmy · May 1, 2010

Let Mark Steyn or Kate McMillan (or people like them) have access to the CBC. IOW, the CBC should "allow"/pay Fox News (or the English Canadian equivalent) to broadcast part of the time.

Kate would be an interesting choice. I don't actually know whether she would be a good broadcaster, I've only familiar with her in textual form... but interesting in the sense that she has basically been elected by people voting with their feet.

Somebody like Tremonti (or Coyne or Hebert or whoever else) has their time-slot on the radio, or their column in the newspaper, because their employer likes their work and thinks it appeals to a segment of their audience. Kate has her blog because she decided to write one. The difference between Kate and millions of other bloggers is that Kate has a huge following. She wasn't selected by an employer to appeal to a segment of an audience... she was selected by the audience itself.

So in that sense, her being on CBC would be sort of an exercise in interactive programming. Rather than showing us what their vision for public broadcasting is, getting a popular blogger would be more like asking us what our vision is.

-k

Bob · May 1, 2010

Well, that depends how far north you are. It starts to suck as you go further....also...other than CBC, RCI, and Radio-Canada, there isn't much Canadian about Sirius.

Hey there Smallc,

I have a couple of questions for you regarding this statement. Perhaps it's already been discussed in other threads, but I'd like you to elaborate on how you define something as "Canadian". Does that simply mean content being produced in whole or in part within Canada and/or by Canadians? Do you have a more substantive definition of what is and isn't Canadian content? I think it's clear we're headed in the direction of defining what is Canadian culture and whether or not we should support it via taxes. Although I know culture is inherently subjective, and often ambiguous, I'd like some parameters to understand this better. Once it's somewhat defined, I guess then it's worth discussing to what degree we need to work towards reinforcing and promoting this Canadian culture.

To you perhaps. I don't think it is, especially when we're talking about a time when we're promoting northern sovereignty. Canadian TV and Radio, believe it or not, are very important components of that.

What are you talking about when you mention the promotion of "Northern sovereignty"?

Edited May 1, 2010 by Bob

kimmy · May 1, 2010

There's apparently no need for the CBC to add people like Kate or Steyn to its variety of opinions because (and this surprised me too) the CBC is already bending over backwards to accommodate conservatives!

G&M TV critic John Doyle:

Fact is, CBC News has contorted itself in order to appear more populist, mainstream and appealing to everyone. It has been terrorized into avoiding any appearance of political bias. ... That is why Conservative spokesman Kory Teneycke is now a CBC pundit, taking a verbal knife to representatives of the left. That is why CBC made more episodes of Dragons’ Den and promoted it heavily – it’s a capitalist Cinderella story for God’s sake. That is why CBC cancelled Intelligence, a show with a serious, subversive subtext about American influence on Canada. In the latter case, I’m totally speculating, and I’m just saying. But, you know, go figure.

hmmmm.

-k

Smallc · May 1, 2010

What are you talking about when you mention the promotion of "Northern sovereignty"?

I'm not sure that I can define what Canadian culture is (as many people would have a different definition), but on this point, I'll explain. There are many people that say you have to use it or lose it in regards to land in the arctic. Having a public broadcast radio system that is based in Canada and plays Canadian produced content is important to the idea of using it.

Bob · May 1, 2010

There's apparently no need for the CBC to add people like Kate or Steyn to its variety of opinions because (and this surprised me too) the CBC is already bending over backwards to accommodate conservatives!

G&M TV critic John Doyle:

hmmmm.

-k

Just a quick observation about the article you linked... I cannot STAND this guy's prose. He writes like he's in middle-school, how does he have a writing career with the Globe and Mail? Does he think he's youthful or funny? He's annoying.

Regarding the substance of his article, I reject his assertion that the CBC has made serious efforts towards achieving political balance. It's quite clearly a liberal (more ideologically liberal than partisan-Liberal) media outlet, but then, Canada is a pretty liberal country. Although I consider myself to the right of mainstream Canada, I hold no illusions about the political character of our country. I think the CBC, in many ways, reflects Canada's political culture in how it reports the news.

This John Doyle person is also quite the armchair analyst with his suggestions that the Conservatives are attacking the CBC simply to silence the "vehicle for opposition" to its G8 anti-abortion-funding plan. I think the Conservative party and ordinary Canadians with conservative leanings have been critical of the CBC for many years. This isn't a new thing solely in response to some narrow policy dispute.

That was a painful article to read. Please don't link anything written by that guy again.

Bob · May 1, 2010

I'm not sure that I can define what Canadian culture is (as many people would have a different definition), but on this point, I'll explain. There are many people that say you have to use it or lose it in regards to land in the arctic. Having a public broadcast radio system that is based in Canada and plays Canadian produced content is important to the idea of using it.

So broadcasting Canadian-produced radio content to our fellow Arctic-dwelling Canadians is an example of "use it or lose it" territorial sovereignty? You've lost me...

With respect to Canadian content and what I extrapolated to Canadian culture, I'm looking for some clarification from you when you stated that "...there isn't much Canadian about Sirius". What did you mean by that? Are you saying that Sirius doesn't carry a lot of Canadian-produced content (like music or talk shows, for example)? If that is what you're saying, is it worthwhile to heavily fund public programs to strengthen media content produced in Canada simply for the sake of it being produced here (in whole or in part)?

Edited May 1, 2010 by Bob

Smallc · May 1, 2010

So broadcasting Canadian-produced radio content to our fellow Arctic-dwelling Canadians is an example of "use it or lose it" territorial sovereignty? You've lost me...

It's part of it.

If that is what you're saying, is it worthwhile to heavily fund public programs to strengthen media content produced in Canada simply for the sake of it being produced here (in whole or in part)?

Well, that's a discussion we would have to have as Canadians. I would say it's worth it to a point (information radio, news on TV and radio, etc.).

Bob · May 1, 2010

It's part of it.

See, I just don't follow that. I also was unaware that there were any territorial disputes over Canadian sovereignty in the far North? What you're saying here makes no sense to me.

Well, that's a discussion we would have to have as Canadians. I would say it's worth it to a point (information radio, news on TV and radio, etc.).

I agree that it's worth promoting, it's just that at times I have some difficulty grasping exactly what our Canadian identity is. This ambiguity makes it difficult for me to decide what should and shouldn't be sponsored by taxpayers (in whole or in part) with respect to promotion of media and arts. Should we just lower the criteria for eligibility of support to the lowest common denominator - that the content be produced mainly in Canada and/or by Canadians?

I'm a huge fan of Trailer Park Boys, but I always found it strange that at the end of every episode there was an indication that the program had been sponsored by some Federal agency. Wasn't the show popular and profitable enough to stand on its own? If it wasn't popular or profitable enough, should it have received life support from Federal tax dollars? Does that show qualify as being a promotion of Canadian culture or identity? I guess the show did somewhat enhance Canada's esteem, in a mild way.

Are you getting a sense of why this is confusing for me?

Edited May 1, 2010 by Bob

Smallc · May 1, 2010

See, I just don't follow that. I also was unaware that there were any territorial disputes over Canadian sovereignty in the far North? What you're saying here makes no sense to me.

Well, there are territorial disputes in the north with both the US and Denmark, but neither of those are on land. The idea is that we have to use the north. That includes living there. Culture, and the broadcast of that culture. It's part of using and having a presence in an area.

Are you getting a sense of why this is confusing for me?

Quite frankly, no. I have no problem helping an industry that may not be able to make it completely on its own, given our low population and our proximity to the largest media producing country in the world. Also, I don't share your problem in defining what is Canadian. We are Canadian. The people that live and work here, who have citizenship are Canadian. We have several recognized national activities and symbols. What we produce as a people is our culture. I'm not worried about whether or not it fits some defined mould that you want to put in place.

Edited May 1, 2010 by Smallc

Bob · May 1, 2010

Well, there are territorial disputes in the north with both the US and Denmark, but neither of those are on land. The idea is that we have to use the north. That includes living there. Culture, and the broadcast of that culture. It's part of using and having a presence in an area.

I don't think we're going to agree on this. I don't see a strong argument being made in favour of financial support towards the CBC (or media and arts, in general) grounded in territorial sovereignty in the far North. These issues are just too removed from one another.

Quite frankly, no. I have no problem helping an industry that may not be able to make it completely on its own, given our low population and our proximity to the largest media producing country in the world. Also, I don't share your problem in defining what is Canadian. We are Canadian. The people that live and work here, who have citizenship are Canadian. We have several recognized national activities and symbols. What we produce as a people is our culture. I'm not worried about whether or not it fits some defined mould that you want to put in place.

Do you mean any industry or specifically the media and/or arts industries? I don't think our proximity to the USA is necessarily a disadvantage to Canada with respect to producing media and/or arts products. Of course it can be in several ways, but at the same time it can be an outlet for Canadians to gain broad recognition. I'm sure both of us can list off several famous Canadians who made it big via Hollywood and other American media and arts hubs - from Jim Carrey to Ali Velshi to Shania Twain. I never said defining Canadian culture had to be specific or a "defined mould", if anything I thought I was clear in acknowledging the subjective and often ambiguous nature of such a concept. I'm ok with that. I was wondering if you could elaborate on what you meant by "...there isn't much Canadian about Sirius" - what qualifies something on the radio (or other media and/or arts outlets) as being Canadian? You said that the quantity of Canadian content is relevant when disagreeing with M.Dancer, and I'd like you to explain this further if you can. What makes radio content (as an example) Canadian?

bloodyminded · May 1, 2010

Kate would be an interesting choice. I don't actually know whether she would be a good broadcaster, I've only familiar with her in textual form... but interesting in the sense that she has basically been elected by people voting with their feet.

Somebody like Tremonti (or Coyne or Hebert or whoever else) has their time-slot on the radio, or their column in the newspaper, because their employer likes their work and thinks it appeals to a segment of their audience. Kate has her blog because she decided to write one. The difference between Kate and millions of other bloggers is that Kate has a huge following. She wasn't selected by an employer to appeal to a segment of an audience... she was selected by the audience itself.

So in that sense, her being on CBC would be sort of an exercise in interactive programming. Rather than showing us what their vision for public broadcasting is, getting a popular blogger would be more like asking us what our vision is.

-k

I haven't read enough of Kate to form an opinion I could argue for at any length...however, I've read Steyn fairly extensively (and, self-evident at least to me, far more carefully than have his admirers).

I bring him up only because he's mentioned in the post to which you replied, in conjunction with Kate...which wouldn't speak well of her, except that her placement beside a ruddy-faced Imperial English schoolboy bully by some anonymous internet poster surely isn't her fault.

The thing about every-prediction-wrong-Steyn (and yes, I can back this charge up) is that I don't think he's so much a conservative as a reactionary, which isn't quite the same thing. His free speech issues aside (the one point on which he has been correct, in my view), he doesn't speak for conservatives as a whole. Well, stupid ones, perhaps. His popularity stems from the fact that people enjoy reading outrageous polemics that are designed to be provocative...even though he's usually factually incorrect, when he abandons opinion for declarative assertions. (And yes, I can back this up too.) He is Anne Coulter--and I'm not exaggerating for effect; the only distinction is that he writes better than she does (she's a remarkably poor writer).

Well, I have no problem with polemicists, and I support Steyn's right to bloviate and his fans' right to be knuckledragging bigots who are hostile to thought. But putting him on CBC would create a NEW "balance issue."

There is no one on CBC, not by a long shot, who is a far to the left as Steyn is to the right. Certainly not the now oft-mentioned Tremonti, an establishment left-liberal of the NDP variety, hardly some radical. Whereas Steyn decidedly IS a radical.

He wouldn't add "balance"--he'd only provide a Glenn Beck segment to CBC, with no alternative-equal lefty voice.

Now as for Kate...I'll have to read a little more.

Smallc · May 1, 2010

What makes radio content (as an example) Canadian?

The subject matter is produced in Canada and has something to do with Canada. I've made it quite clear what I'm talking about. Things like news, information, and cultural programs.

Bob · May 2, 2010

The subject matter is produced in Canada and has something to do with Canada. I've made it quite clear what I'm talking about. Things like news, information, and cultural programs.

Alright, I understand. Do you think Canadian media and arts need government in order to succeed or become popular? If a media or arts product requires government support in order to be financially viable, doesn't that suggest that Canadians aren't interested? Can't we Canadians be left to decide for ourselves what media and arts we want to consume, without taxing us to support those products that most of us are uninterested in? I'm not convinced that just because a media or arts product is "produced in Canada and has something to do with Canada" makes it worthy of our tax dollars. Especially when considering that far more important needs are not as fulfilled as many of us think they should be, i.e. our health care system.

Smallc · May 2, 2010

Alright, I understand. Do you think Canadian media and arts need government in order to succeed or become popular?

As I've said, to the extent of the areas I've mentioned. Other things should probably stand and fall on their own.

Especially when considering that far more important needs are not as fulfilled as many of us think they should be, i.e. our health care system.

Different level of government.

g_bambino · May 2, 2010

I believe that the public spending per capita is less for TVO than it is for CBC.

Perhaps it is. However, in most discussions I've seen on these forums on this subject, the anti-CBC brigade always comes marching out with their one solution: disband the CBC. Redefining its mandate - which could well, and likely would, mean less funding - is never a consideration, apparently; so why then would the CBC haters bother at all with what other media Crown corporations, in Canada and other Commonwealth realms, do and for what cost?

DFCaper · May 2, 2010

The subject matter is produced in Canada and has something to do with Canada. I've made it quite clear what I'm talking about. Things like news, information, and cultural programs.

I am personally a fan of the CBC radio and do enjoy Canadian TV. I think it would be a shame to lose the radio. It is the only source I have for local news. I am not sure we need to keep the TV in it's current format. Maybe government funding towards individual TV shows on private Canadian networks would be enough.

I can understand why people are against government funding for the TV, but feel it is necessary with our location being next to an entertainment juggernaut (US).

Most of my friends, when they became interested in the community and politics, started listening to CBC Radio...

I would like to see more right wing views on the CBC. It is not as extreme left as it used to be, but I would like to see it more center. It's left wing agenda will be the cause of it's own demise...

Smallc · May 2, 2010

I am personally a fan of the CBC radio and do enjoy Canadian TV. I think it would be a shame to lose the radio. It is the only source I have for local news. I am not sure we need to keep the TV in it's current format. Maybe government funding towards individual TV shows on private Canadian networks would be enough.

I'm in complete agreement with that. That's exactly what I'd like to see happen.

g_bambino · May 3, 2010

I'm in complete agreement with that. That's exactly what I'd like to see happen.

There's still some CBC television I find decent: The National, At Issue, and Marketplace jump to mind. A curtailed CBC TV presence might not be bad.

Smallc · May 3, 2010

There's still some CBC television I find decent: The National, At Issue, and Marketplace jump to mind. A curtailed CBC TV presence might not be bad.

CBC TV could simply become private. Certain programs on all networks could receive government funding. That's just one idea though.

Handsome Rob · May 4, 2010

Alright, I understand. Do you think Canadian media and arts need government in order to succeed or become popular? If a media or arts product requires government support in order to be financially viable, doesn't that suggest that Canadians aren't interested? Can't we Canadians be left to decide for ourselves what media and arts we want to consume, without taxing us to support those products that most of us are uninterested in? I'm not convinced that just because a media or arts product is "produced in Canada and has something to do with Canada" makes it worthy of our tax dollars. Especially when considering that far more important needs are not as fulfilled as many of us think they should be, i.e. our health care system.

*Applause* *Roaring Applause*

Handsome Rob · May 4, 2010

There's still some CBC television I find decent: The National, At Issue, and Marketplace jump to mind. A curtailed CBC TV presence might not be bad.

Marketplace? Really?

Person: I paid $6,000 for my lose 80 lbs overnight pills, and I didn't lose any weight!

CBC: Oh that's terrible, that evil, evil corporation. We're going to go run a smear campaign against them because you were to lazy to have any common sense to differentiate between obvious scam and un-obvious scam. Forget about thinking for themselves, Canadian's need the government to protect them, that way we'll never have to make a moderately intelligent decision ever again.