So where can music be downloaded in Canada

[Bonam]

I've never had that problem with Audible.

Which problem? They're files are certainly DRM'd to hell. You definitely do have to download their special software to listen to them (unless you wanna do a lot of hacking to extract the sound from their files). Perhaps you were just lucky and had a device that it worked with and didn't mind the process of downloading their crappy bloatware. It doesn't work on many popular devices, however, such as the Palm Pre.

[bush_cheney2004]

Which problem? They're files are certainly DRM'd to hell. You definitely do have to download their special software to listen to them (unless you wanna do a lot of hacking to extract the sound from their files). Perhaps you were just lucky and had a device that it worked with and didn't mind the process of downloading their crappy bloatware. It doesn't work on many popular devices, however, such as the Palm Pre.

Why would you expect anything different? Their device list looks very straightforward, as is the download for "bloatware".

[Bonam]

..and Audible explains device compatibility in plain language:

http://www.audible.com/adbl/site/offers/howItWorks.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0615765490.1270179965@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccccadekdedkmgfcefecekjdffidffg.0

You are right, it does. I should indeed have read more carefully before purchasing. Instead, having not previously purchased audio books online, I foolishly assumed that an audio book would come as a sound file(s) and thus I could play it wherever I wanted.

And this is exactly the problem. You have to figure out all their device compatibility issues, read all the fine print, download and use all their special software that makes their DRM'd files readable.

Or you can just get the mp3 which works anywhere, without any hassle, without any bloatware, for free.

If you are gonna charge money for something, you need to make the service easy and hassle free, and most certainly not force your users to download shitty and bloated software.

I maintain my stance that these kinds of companies are shooting themselves in the foot. They need to just let you download standard format sound files.

[bush_cheney2004]

....I maintain my stance that these kinds of companies are shooting themselves in the foot. They need to just let you download standard format sound files.

..and let me guess...you would promise to never never ever copy or distribute that "standard" file with others?

I have purchased hundreds of DRM'd media products without issue. Share the device....not the file!

[Bonam]

..and let me guess...you would promise to never never ever copy or distribute that "standard" file with others?

Frankly, that is not my problem. Those who really want to do some illegal distribution can easily spend a few hours to figure out how to hack the files. If a company doesn't offer me something that is convenient enough for me to use, I am not gonna purchase stuff from them.

I have purchased hundreds of DRM'd media products without issue. Share the device....not the file!

You may not have a problem with it, but I do. You have to downloaded proprietary software from almost each company whose DRM'd files you use, which causes bloating. The files themselves are larger due to the DRM content. You often cannot easily transfer the files between devices that you own. These are serious convenience issues, and they make the PAID PRODUCTS WORSE THAN WHAT YOU CAN GET FOR FREE.

I don't know how much more clearly I could explain it.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Frankly, that is not my problem. Those who really want to do some illegal distribution can easily spend a few hours to figure out how to hack the files.

A few hours? 5 minutes. There are so many free conversion applications out there.

[bush_cheney2004]

Frankly, that is not my problem. Those who really want to do some illegal distribution can easily spend a few hours to figure out how to hack the files. If a company doesn't offer me something that is convenient enough for me to use, I am not gonna purchase stuff from them.

Sure, and unlike yourself, there is a permanent miscreant underclass that specializes in doing just that....just to give the finger to The Man!

You may not have a problem with it, but I do. You have to downloaded proprietary software from almost each company whose DRM'd files you use, which causes bloating. The files themselves are larger due to the DRM content. You often cannot easily transfer the files between devices that you own. These are serious convenience issues, and they make the PAID PRODUCTS WORSE THAN WHAT YOU CAN GET FOR FREE.

Agreed, but perhaps you want more convenience than the EULA allows (i.e. multiple devices). DRM is about control, not convenience.

I don't know how much more clearly I could explain it.

Such onerous hoop jumping would have killed the business long ago, but it turns out that most people's needs are met by one device until the next upgrade.

[Bonam]

Sure, and unlike yourself, there is a permanent miscreant underclass that specializes in doing just that....just to give the finger to The Man!

And that is a good thing. Perhaps the "competition" from these people who share content for free will eventually force companies to provide better services. There have already been many instances of this.

Agreed, but perhaps you want more convenience than the EULA allows (i.e. multiple devices). DRM is about control, not convenience.

Indeed, I do want more convenience than what seems to be "allowed". If the companies are so obsessed with "control" that they deliver to me a product that lacks in convenience as a result, I may choose not to purchase such a product. Simple enough.

Such onerous hoop jumping would have killed the business long ago, but it turns out that most people's needs are met by one device until the next upgrade.

Sure, many people aren't bothered by DRM. That's why many companies use it as part of their business model and still survive and make a profit. But they are also losing many potential customers who may dislike DRM.

[Smallc]

Actually, what I was saying is that I don't have and Audible proprietary software. I use iTunes and an iPod, so there are no problems.

[bush_cheney2004]

And that is a good thing. Perhaps the "competition" from these people who share content for free will eventually force companies to provide better services. There have already been many instances of this.

Competition from thieves often results in the opposite effect....more "security".

Indeed, I do want more convenience than what seems to be "allowed". If the companies are so obsessed with "control" that they deliver to me a product that lacks in convenience as a result, I may choose not to purchase such a product. Simple enough.

Then you will no longer be a customer, but like I said, they have already crunched the numbers for their continued bread and butter.

Sure, many people aren't bothered by DRM. That's why many companies use it as part of their business model and still survive and make a profit. But they are also losing many potential customers who may dislike DRM.

I guess...I don't ever think about "DRM" when I buy a media/game product. You just pays your money and use as intended without much fuss. If it's defective they will exchange for another (no refund). I can't say that for the pirated bootlegs sold on eBay!

[Bonam]

Actually, what I was saying is that I don't have and Audible proprietary software. I use iTunes and an iPod, so there are no problems.

Ah ok. Well, I don't use either iTunes or an iPod (or any other Apple products).

[Bonam]

Competition from thieves often results in the opposite effect....more "security".

Yes, sometimes. But don't forget that most online music distribution originated precisely because "thieves" were distributing this stuff online for free, and companies realized they had to adapt their business models.

Then you will no longer be a customer, but like I said, they have already crunched the numbers for their continued bread and butter.

Yes, I'm sure they have. One can only hope that other companies' number crunching will lead to different conclusions.

I guess...I don't ever think about "DRM" when I buy a media/game product. You just pays your money and use as intended without much fuss. If it's defective they will exchange for another (no refund). I can't say that for the pirated bootlegs sold on eBay!

You may be surprised how many people do indeed think about DRM and dislike it. The internet is filled with forums, blogs, etc, on the topic.

[bush_cheney2004]

Yes, sometimes. But don't forget that most online music distribution originated precisely because "thieves" were distributing this stuff online for free, and companies realized they had to adapt their business models.

Right, but illegal distribution did not extinguish property rights. Napster is now a paid service.

Yes, I'm sure they have. One can only hope that other companies' number crunching will lead to different conclusions.

Ultimately, that conclusion will not be "free"....a revenue stream must be realized in some manner.

You may be surprised how many people do indeed think about DRM and dislike it. The internet is filled with forums, blogs, etc, on the topic.

No, I am not surprised at all, and have concluded that until time is worth more than money to them, they will continue to rail against the "machine". When I was kid, we would record music from FM radio broadcasts to magnetic tape (reel-to-reel). Some stations played complete album sides late at night. Not very convenient, but it was "free".

[Smallc]

Ah ok. Well, I don't use either iTunes or an iPod (or any other Apple products).

I didn't realize there were problems with proprietary issues because of what I use. I use a lot of mac stuff (I'm typing this on a MacBook Pro), but the Audible books are for a different reason. My grandmother has macular degeneration and glaucoma. She can still see a bit (enough that she has a garden in summer, and she can see to do daily things), but not much, so all she really can do is listen. Between CNIB, Sirius, and Audible, she has something to do with her time during the winter and the times in summer when she can't keep busy.

[Bonam]

Right, but illegal distribution did not extinguish property rights. Napster is now a paid service.

Exactly my point... the competition through illegal distribution caused legitimate companies to offer better service.

Ultimately, that conclusion will not be "free"....a revenue stream must be realized in some manner.

And I am not asking for anything free. I just want the stuff I pay for to be convenient, no less convenient than the stuff I could get for free.

No, I am not surprised at all, and have concluded that until time is worth more than money to them, they will continue to rail against the "machine". When I was kid, we would record music from FM radio broadcasts to magnetic tape (reel-to-reel). Some stations played complete album sides late at night. Not very convenient, but it was "free".

This is kind of unrelated. Yes, people who have no money may do things that are inconvenient in order to get something for free. That makes sense. If they had money, they could spend it and get what they are looking for more conveniently. However, we now have the opposite situation. Spend money AND go through a bunch of hassle to get/use something. Or get it for free and have it be way more convenient.

[Argus]

Then you will no longer be a customer, but like I said, they have already crunched the numbers for their continued bread and butter.

I admire your steadfast enthusiasm and confidence for the infalibility of corporate America in the face of the undeniable fact that almost no one in positions of power there cares about what is going to happen to their company more than two years in the future.

If there is one thing we have become familiar with over the last ten or twenty years it is the fact that corporations are often run by the most close-minded imbeciles to ever earn a million bucks a month. The American auto sector is the best example, but you could easily use the financial sector as well. Genius? Right. If these men are geniuses it is at self-enrichment, not at doing what is best for their corporations and most certainly not in doing what is best for their corporations in the long run.

[Argus]

My grandmother has macular degeneration and glaucoma. She can still see a bit (enough that she has a garden in summer, and she can see to do daily things), but not much, so all she really can do is listen. Between CNIB, Sirius, and Audible, she has something to do with her time during the winter and the times in summer when she can't keep busy.

I don't know where she lives but having looked into audible books I found the best place was the local public library. They had a bigger selection and the books are much less condensed. Also unlike the CNIB books they generally have actors reading them, not volunteers.

[Smallc]

I don't know where she lives but having looked into audible books I found the best place was the local public library. They had a bigger selection and the books are much less condensed. Also unlike the CNIB books they generally have actors reading them, not volunteers.

Unfortunately, my family lives in a very rural area. There is a library in a small city about an hour away, but it isn't very extensive. We have gotten her some books from libraries in Winnipeg, but most of the time she has enough as it is.

[Shady]

you're welcome, Shady

For what?

I bought blank cds yesterday. The only tax that shows up is GST and PST. I'll scan my receipt if you'd like to see it. Subsidies are different from taxes. Taxes go to government, subsidies go to particular industries.

Aside from that, just because blank cds carry a subsidy, doesn't give anybody the right to steal music, as DrGreenthumb seemed to imply.

[msj]

For what?

I bought blank cds yesterday. The only tax that shows up is GST and PST. I'll scan my receipt if you'd like to see it. Subsidies are different from taxes. Taxes go to government, subsidies go to particular industries.

Aside from that, just because blank cds carry a subsidy, doesn't give anybody the right to steal music, as DrGreenthumb seemed to imply.

All it takes to fool Shady is to not show a tax on the receipt!

If only all Canadians were this easily fooled.

Then the government could end income tax, raise hidden taxes like the old manufacturers tax and the existing private copying tariff and people like Shady would be celebrating Canada for slashing taxes!

I'm surprised that you haven't taken a different tact on this one, Shady.

Rather than deny the existence of this tariff you should be complaining about how it is a "collectivist" style system that undermines private property by taking away consumers rights to directly reward an artist by taxing us all and then throwing that money into a pot that is shared based on questionable rationing methods....

Edited April 2, 2010 by msj

[Shady]

All it takes to fool Shady is to not show a tax on the receipt!

Nope. I just making the distinction between a tax and a subsidy.

Then the government could end income tax, raise hidden taxes like the old manufacturers tax and the existing private copying tariff and people like Shady would be celebrating Canada for slashing taxes!

Actually, what you're sort of describing is similar to the fair tax idea. Which I'm getting more and more in favour of. Good for you, I like it!

Rather than deny he existence of this tariff you should be complaining about how it is a "collectivist" style system that undermines private property by taking away consumers rights to directly reward an artist by taxing us all and then throwing that money into a pot that is shared based on questionable rationing methods....

I agree. I think the subsidy should end, and copyright rules should be enforced. I like that idea too!

[bush_cheney2004]

I admire your steadfast enthusiasm and confidence for the infalibility of corporate America in the face of the undeniable fact that almost no one in positions of power there cares about what is going to happen to their company more than two years in the future.

These days....surviving just two years is a major accomplishment!

If there is one thing we have become familiar with over the last ten or twenty years it is the fact that corporations are often run by the most close-minded imbeciles to ever earn a million bucks a month. The American auto sector is the best example, but you could easily use the financial sector as well. Genius? Right. If these men are geniuses it is at self-enrichment, not at doing what is best for their corporations and most certainly not in doing what is best for their corporations in the long run.

What is best requires context and time horizon. I could say the same thing about the seal hunt or fisheries in Canada.

[bush_cheney2004]

And the beat goes on....

Apple Inc. says it sold more than 300,000 iPads on Saturday, the day it debuted across the United States, but some analysts suggest the hotly anticipated device will have a tougher challenge when it hits the Canadian market later this month.

Part of the uphill battle comes down to content -- because what many American users might find appealing about the iPad may be exactly what Canadian users won't be able to see.

Deloitte technology analyst Duncan Stewart said one of the biggest setbacks Canadian users might find at the outset may already be a familiar pet peeve on the Internet.

[Bonam]

And the beat goes on....

Apple Inc. says it sold more than 300,000 iPads on Saturday, the day it debuted across the United States, but some analysts suggest the hotly anticipated device will have a tougher challenge when it hits the Canadian market later this month.

Part of the uphill battle comes down to content -- because what many American users might find appealing about the iPad may be exactly what Canadian users won't be able to see.

Deloitte technology analyst Duncan Stewart said one of the biggest setbacks Canadian users might find at the outset may already be a familiar pet peeve on the Internet.

Yeah not being able to see things like Hulu in Canada is somewhat frustrating. Fortunately, there are ways around it (proxies), as well as the option to just download stuff you want to see through p2p.

That being said, I don't know what the heck people see in the iPad, regardless of the content available. It is too big to fit into your pocket and so lacks the convenience and mobility that goes along with smaller devices, and yet also lacks features like a physical tactile keyboard that lend increased productivity and versatility to laptops/netbooks.

To me, it seems like a hybrid device that tries to fill a niche that simply does not exist. The people buying it are just succumbing to hype or are apple fanbois.

Edited April 6, 2010 by Bonam

[bush_cheney2004]

...To me, it seems like a hybrid device that tries to fill a niche that simply does not exist. The people buying it are just succumbing to hype or are apple fanbois.

Not everybody....teenagers smash iPad with hi tech baseball bat:

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/04/05/ipad-finally-purchased-teenagers-start-destroying/?test=latestnews