Battle over soldiers scholarship

[Smallc]

All you have to do is the math....Last year there was 3.5 bil out of the Ann Budget for new aquisitions....this year there is alot less...most of those projects i've listed are well over 5 bil....with some as much as 10 or more....so tell me how is it we can amke all this purchases without outside funding.....maybe it's the new math...

The government says it's fully funded (so does DND). That doesn't mean it's funded within the defence budget, but they say it's fully funded.

The C-17 would have been able to do what....take more people out of cyprus....what would of made the difference would have been a big honkin ship with limited amphb capabilities....but hey who i'm i ...

lebanon was not a DND mission....who's mission was it....and why is it now the military has a a tasking called NEO, which trains just for these type of occasions....retrieval of civilians from a hostile country...

Right, because there was time to et a ship across the ocean to take people out. The other countries that were close by could use their navies, as could the US. We would most likely not have been able to no matter what. A big honking ship is hopefully coming, but again, it probably wouldn't have been useful 2 weeks late. It was a DFAIT operation.

It's going to Afghan it's a secure airfield....besides it's arental, and the russians will fly any where for a price....

I see, and DND won't fly the C-17 anywhere if necessary? Right.

You also know that we have the 2 and largest continent and it comes with a price as we are seeing in the north don't use it loss it....can't defend it loss it....So yes i am aware of what our status is....but how can you sit here and tell me that we can not afford it when in 2009 we pissed away 20 bil in Indiv tax relief, and 75 bil into protecting our banking systems....and thenm bark about the military is spending to much back under the table....Sorry i don't buy it....take a look at the entire budget and tell me right now there is not things we can live without....then tell me there is no money sit down....

If you think that we spent $75B supporting our banking system from the federal budget, I'm not going to waste time arguing.

Are you saying david is full of shit....i mean he does confer with DND on a daily basises ....he's getting his sources form within DND....I say that because we have been told at the unit level that the CCV and the APV and other veh programs have been canceled....as we where suppose to be one of the units testing them....but that is here say, i understand.

If some programs were cancelled, the money is till there for other programs, and is probably being redirected. I said that the project was postponed. Cancelled is a strong word. Anyway, there are links in my previous post now related to many of the things that I said.

[M.Dancer]

I see, and DND won't fly the C-17 anywhere if necessary? Right.

Pretty much. You have to access the risk/benefit. In most cases the cargo on the plane has less value than the plane.

[Smallc]

Pretty much. You have to access the risk/benefit. In most cases the cargo on the plane has less value than the plane.

So....then my original point. What does the US have that can transport without risk that we don't?

[M.Dancer]

So....then my original point. What does the US have that can transport without risk that we don't?

An awful lot more...it's not like they will lose 24% of the fleet if one gets shot.

And they wouldn't send such a monster into a airfield underfire...

[Smallc]

An awful lot more...it's not like they will lose 24% of the fleet if one gets shot.

And they wouldn't send such a monster into a airfield underfire...

Well then, how would they move a tank in? The answer is that they wouldn't. And I wasn't talking about their numbers. I wouldn't expect Canada to have 205 C-17s.

Edited April 8, 2010 by Smallc

[Smallc]

So Army Guy, you say that the defence procurement budget is $3.5B an smaller this year...so lets average about $3B...over the 20 year life of the Canada First Defence Strategy...and we get...wait for it...$60B. DND estimates that their equipment replacement will cost...wait for it...$50B....hmmmm. It's likely that some projects will be late, scaled back, redirected, etc....but it seems things really are fully funded.

Edited April 8, 2010 by Smallc

[M.Dancer]

Well then, how would they move a tank in? The answer is that they wouldn't. And I wasn't talking about their numbers. I wouldn't expect Canada to have 205 C-17s.

Well before you risk the c-17, and it's tank, you have to secure the airfield. Now here is where the power projection comes in...how many regiments will you need to secure the airfield?

Get them there.

With the kit.

with their food.

With their ammunition.

The US has enough strategic lift to drop a few thousand paratroopers, and their kit, and their food and amuunition in one go with more to spare for reserves...

We don't.

[Smallc]

We don't.

Like...about 190 other countries in the world. In comparison to most of them, our power projection ability is...very good.

[M.Dancer]

Like...about 190 other countries in the world. In comparison to most of them, our power projection ability is...very good.

I have no interest in comparing ourselves to Togo, Ghana, Barbadoes, etc etc....

How about comparing ourselves to France? Germany? UK? Italy? Spain? Turkey?

[Smallc]

How about comparing ourselves to France? Germany? UK? Italy? Spain? Turkey?

Fine go ahead. Just don't forget that we spend as much as Spain while having about the same size of economy...while at the same time having only about 65 - 70% of their population....and their budget is falling....the rest of the countries are really in a different class with between 1.8 and 2.5 times the population.

But go ahead, compare us. Of course, we can also compare tax rates, growth, and deficits while we're at it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_as_percentage_of_GDP

Edited April 8, 2010 by Smallc

[Army Guy]

So Army Guy, you say that the defence procurement budget is $3.5B an smaller this year...so lets average about $3B...over the 20 year life of the Canada First Defence Strategy...and we get...wait for it...$60B. DND estimates that their equipment replacement will cost...wait for it...$50B....hmmmm. It's likely that some projects will be late, scaled back, redirected, etc....but it seems things really are fully funded.

What your failing to tell the other readers is just how old Canada first strategy is today...and what we've accomplished up to date.

And while your math skills are good what else are you forgetting, that since the strategy was release how much these programs have risen in cost. lets take a look at just the replacing the F-18 shall we. The F-35 project when first announce was an est of 70 million per copy Actually that is the US price our price was closer to 80 million per aircraft...That was just for the airframe, we have historically added in a 20 year maintence program, parts, wpns, etc which almost doubles the cost to around 160 million per plane...under the Canada first Strategy we had planed to purchase 60 aircraft at over 11 bil dollar investment....

Today the price per unit is est at 140 Million per plane, and no aircraft have been delivered....and once you add in the maintaence contracts etc, the price is now well over 240 Milion a unit....thats some 15 bil.... well over the orginal est.....

But the news just keeps on getting better, by the time we take delivery est cost per unit are expected to go to over the 200 to 250 million a unit,which would blow your Canada first dtragy est well out of the water...

This is one project, what about the others....Can we say your 60 bil is going to be enough ? can we say it's funded? and if so at waht cost ?

My link

The list i gave you are projects that are in need to be replaced today....and while 60 bil in todays dollars may be enough, do we really have 20 years to replace them, i don't think so ...and what will they cost 10 years down the road....will they still be funded tommorow...

Edited April 14, 2010 by Army Guy

[Smallc]

Like I said, I'm going to trust that DND has done their homework. The sky isn't falling, and there is enough money (more than enough money) to buy what we need. The links I showed are not as old as the Canada First Defence Strategy, they were added and updated last year. The CF-188 replacement was never to be delivered until 2017 - 2020 anyway....and like I said, there is evidence now that it may not be the F-35 (which, over time should decline in relative cost, and not appreciate).