Indisputable Facts Of Obamacare

[Born Free]

Yes, if a different congress takes the bullet and cuts the proposed $500 billion in medicare, and then takes another bullet and taxes high-cost and union insurance plans, then there might be some cost control.

Of course, that's if you believe in a projection for 10 years from now, and that's if you believe that members of congress 6 and 8 years from now will make the proposed cuts and taxes that this congress was too chicken to take on.

Fact is, Obamacare was a big lie. It's not going to cut the deficit, it's going to add billions to the deficit.

Its my understanding that somewhere between 40 & 50% of Americans dont pay any Fed Tax whatsoever...seems that tax reform is needed as much as health care & financial reform.

[Guest American Woman]

Its my understanding that somewhere between 40 & 50% of Americans dont pay any Fed Tax whatsoever..

That's the percentage of people who don't pay in any taxes when they file. They've had tax witheld from their payroll throughout the year, however, so they most definitely have paid federal taxes. They have also had Social Security and Medicare taxes withheld from their paychecks, which are most definitely federal taxes.

[Born Free]

That's the percentage of people who don't pay in any taxes when they file. They've had tax witheld from their payroll throughout the year, however, so they most definitely have paid federal taxes. They have also had Social Security and Medicare taxes withheld from their paychecks, which are most definitely federal taxes.

If the filer gets all of his tax withheld (and perhaps more) returned back to him... at the end of the day the Feds didnt get any tax from him. Right?

[Guest American Woman]

If the filer gets all of his tax withheld (and perhaps more) returned back to him... at the end of the day the Feds didnt get any tax from him. Right?

But they aren't getting all of their "tax withheld" back again; they simply aren't "paying" any taxes when filing.

Furthermore, no one gets any Social Security or Medicare taxes back.

[bush_cheney2004]

Furthermore, no one gets any Social Security or Medicare taxes back.

Mostly true, except for certain immigrant and visa workers subject to "totalization" treaties between the USA and their country of origin.

[Guest American Woman]

Mostly true, except for certain immigrant and visa workers subject to "totalization" treaties between the USA and their country of origin.

Bornfree's comment was in reference to Americans, though, so that's who I was referring to: somewhere between 40 & 50% of Americans dont pay any Fed Tax whatsoever

Edited April 24, 2010 by American Woman

[Born Free]

But they aren't getting all of their "tax withheld" back again; they simply aren't "paying" any taxes when filing.

Furthermore, no one gets any Social Security or Medicare taxes back.

Perhaps you've misunderstood the comment... between 40-50% of Americans do not pay any Federal income tax. Its immaterial if they have tax withheld at source..when they file their tax return, they get the tax that was withheld back from the Feds because they were exempt from paying any tax because of their deductions..

Hope that helps...

[bush_cheney2004]

they get the tax that was withheld back from the Feds because they were exempt from paying any tax because of their deductions..

Hope that helps...

Still not accurate for the entire data domain....many don't pay income or FICA/Medicare taxes because they get paid off the grid; others do not get their federal taxes back because they do not file.

[Born Free]

Still not accurate for the entire data domain....many don't pay income or FICA/Medicare taxes because they get paid off the grid; others do not get their federal taxes back because they do not file.

My point is that almost half of Americans dont pay any Fed income tax regardless of the reason. It makes me wonder why the tea baggers are so pissed off with their taxes when most of them dont pay a damn thing...very strange...

[bush_cheney2004]

My point is that almost half of Americans dont pay any Fed income tax regardless of the reason. It makes me wonder why the tea baggers are so pissed off with their taxes when most of them dont pay a damn thing...very strange...

Because regardless of how much they do or do not pay, it's not the government's money.

[Guest American Woman]

Perhaps you've misunderstood the comment... between 40-50% of Americans do not pay any Federal income tax. Its immaterial if they have tax withheld at source..when they file their tax return, they get the tax that was withheld back from the Feds because they were exempt from paying any tax because of their deductions..

Hope that helps...

No, it's you who's misunderstanding the comments made in the media. Between 40-50% of Americans do not pay any Federal income tax at filing. Show me where it says that 40-50% of Americans get all their money back when they file their returns. They don't.

And again, they also pay Social Security and Medicare taxes, deducted from their paychecks, which is not subject to a refund, regardless of their deductions.

[Born Free]

Because regardless of how much they do or do not pay, it's not the government's money.

You make no sense...

[Born Free]

No, it's you who's misunderstanding the comments made in the media. Between 40-50% of Americans do not pay any Federal income tax at filing. Show me where it says that 40-50% of Americans get all their money back when they file their returns. They don't.

..perhaps you've never received a Fed income tax refund...

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nearly-half-of-US-households-apf-1105567323.html?x=0&.v=1

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Tax Day is a dreaded deadline for millions, but for nearly half of U.S. households it's simply somebody else's problem.

About 47 percent will pay no federal income taxes at all for 2009. Either their incomes were too low, or they qualified for enough credits, deductions and exemptions to eliminate their liability. That's according to projections by the Tax Policy Center, a Washington research organization.

Edited April 24, 2010 by Born Free

[bush_cheney2004]

You make no sense...

I know....it's an American thing.

[Born Free]

I know....it's an American thing.

...maybe I shoulda written "cents"...

Edited April 24, 2010 by Born Free

[Guest American Woman]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nearly-half-of-US-households-apf-1105567323.html?x=0&.v=1

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Tax Day is a dreaded deadline for millions, but for nearly half of U.S. households it's simply somebody else's problem.

About 47 percent will pay no federal income taxes at all for 2009. Either their incomes were too low, or they qualified for enough credits, deductions and exemptions to eliminate their liability. That's according to projections by the Tax Policy Center, a Washington research organization.

Here's what you said: between 40 & 50% of Americans dont pay any Fed Tax whatsoever

You are now quoting federal income tax figures, which is but one type of federal taxes. So your statement is incorrect. From your source:

The vast majority of people who escape federal income taxes still pay other taxes, including federal payroll taxes that fund Social Security and Medicare....

They do not get all of the money that they paid in back regardless of their income/deductions.

It's just not true that "between 40 & 50% of Americans dont pay any Fed Tax whatsoever."

[Born Free]

Here's what you said: between 40 & 50% of Americans dont pay any Fed Tax whatsoever

You are now quoting federal income tax figures, which is but one type of federal taxes. So your statement is incorrect. From your source:

Born Free, on 24 April 2010 - 02:03 PM, said:

My point is that almost half of Americans dont pay any Fed income tax regardless of the reason. It makes me wonder why the tea baggers are so pissed off with their taxes when most of them dont pay a damn thing...very strange...

[Guest American Woman]

The vast majority of people who escape federal income taxes still pay other taxes, including federal payroll taxes that fund Social Security and Medicare....

So they do pay federal taxes. Again, your statement that between 40 & 50% of Americans dont pay any Fed Tax whatsoever is incorrect, and that's the statement I was responding to.

Edited April 24, 2010 by American Woman

[Born Free]

The vast majority of people who escape federal income taxes still pay other taxes, including federal payroll taxes that fund Social Security and Medicare....

So they do pay federal taxes. Again, your statement that between 40 & 50% of Americans dont pay any Fed Tax whatsoever is incorrect, and that's the statement I was responding to.

God yer thick.

I am talking about income tax! Not social security or medicare or unemployment insurance taxes....

[Guest American Woman]

God yer thick.

I am talking about income tax! Not social security or medicare or unemployment insurance taxes....

Then say what you mean and mean what you say, because you said: between 40 & 50% of Americans dont pay any Fed Tax whatsoever and that's not true, as Social Security and Medicare taxes ARE "fed tax[es]."

You want to change it to something else now, find someone else to play along. Having pointed out that you were wrong, I won't be wasting any more of my time.

Edited April 24, 2010 by American Woman

[Born Free]

Then say what you mean and mean what you say, because you said: between 40 & 50% of Americans dont pay any Fed Tax whatsoever and that's not true, as Social Security and Medicare taxes ARE "fed tax[es]."

You want to change it to something else now, find someone else to play along. Having pointed out that you were wrong, I won't be wasting any more of my time.

God yer thick... I clarified/elaborated my statement a few posts back. You chose not to read it. I cant help you on that.

Social Security is NOT an income tax. I AM TALKING ABOUT INCOME TAX. You know the stuff that helps to pay for all those tanks and guns and Blackwater guys...

[Natchuck]

These are a list of indisputable facts of Obamacare. I'll be adding more as new facts are uncovered over the next several days and weeks. The bill has just been posted online, and it's some 2700 pages long. So combing through it is a slow and tedious process.

* Obamacare mandates 30 million new customers to private health insurance companies.

* Obamacare imposes a new 5% tax on wheel chairs and other medical devices.

* Obamacare overall imposes close to a $500 billion dollar tax increase on Americans.

* Obamacare doesn't come into effect until 2014.

* However, Obamacare taxes start immediately. This is an accounting trick to hide the actual costs of the program.

* Obamacare also includes a government takeover of the student loans program. This is another accounting trick create the illusion Obamacare cuts the deficit. Taking over the student loan program helps offset costs, as it provides more revenue to the government overall.

* Obamacare cuts $500 billion dollars from medicare, counts it as $500 billion dollars in savings, but then spends that same $500 billion dollars on a new entitlement.

Forcing people to buy insurance is just stupid! Part of what they buy is the insurance companies' profit. Not to mention the administrative costs of multiple insurance companies.

It seems to me the problem is the Americans extreme distrust of government. The better system is, as in Canada a "single payer " system This removes multiple layers of administration as well as the unjustified profit of the insurance companies.

[Shady]

No real suprise.

CBO ups health care cost projections

Congressional Budget Office estimates released Tuesday predict the health care overhaul will likely cost about $115 billion more in discretionary spending over ten years than the original cost projections.

Link