Contraception not welcome in PMO G8 Maternal Health policy

[M.Dancer]

read the title of this thread?

Amybe you should have looked at the Op and the opinion links included....

See, the thing about the Harper government’s plan to present a maternal and child health initiative at the G8 that wouldn’t include any provision for family planning (let us call it by its names: access to abortion and contraception)

Now I won't use any childish tactic and claim you are trolling...I'll just point out that you are failing the debate and move on...

[waldo]

The title of the threazd is not the gold standard pertaining to the issue. The Liberals are insistent that Abortion be included.

Deal with it

you can either focus on what your favoured Harper Conservative party position is... your governing party's position is... or you can deflect/dismiss by attempting to make this thread about abortion or comments from other parties.

Health Benefits of The Birth Control Pill

We now know that the pill has several uses other than just the prevention of pregnancy. In fact, probably close to 50% of the time that I prescribe the pill, it is for reasons other than the prevention of pregnancy. These reasons include: improving the menstrual cycle, preventing certain benign conditions, and the prevention of gynecologic cancers.

Most women are aware that the pill will produce more regular and predictable cycles, but there is much more. It can also reduce the pain associated with periods, and it can reduce the total number of days of menstrual flow. Less days of bleeding leads to less chance of anemia, which is another important health benefit. As far as the prevention of benign conditions, the pill can decrease problems related to breast disorders such as fibrocystic changes and fibroadenomas. In addition, it decreases a woman’s chance of developing certain pelvic infections, and it decreases the occurrence of ectopic, or tubal, pregnancy. There are also certain formulations of the pill that have been shown to improve acne.

Probably one of the most exciting health benefits of the pill is that its use can dramatically reduce a woman’s chance of ever getting certain types of cancer. Women who use the pill for 3-4 years can decrease their chance of ovarian cancer by 50%, and if they have used the pill for at least 10 years an 80% reduction is seen, truly amazing. Also, use of the pill for at least 2 years reduces the risk of endometrial cancer (cancer of the uterine lining) by 40%, and 4 or more years of use reduces this risk by 60%. This information is too important to be ignored.

There is evidence that use of the pill could prevent certain ovarian cysts from forming.

[M.Dancer]

Adn once again, from the link in the OP...

who first made the conflation reagrding Conraception ad abortion?

But it was Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff who first made abortion part of the issue, asking whether Mr. Harper's government would include access to abortions as part of the strategy.

End of story

[Smallc]

So why don't the Conservatives say they'll fund contraception, but not abortion. I'm sure they could find an excuse.

[waldo]

Adn once again, from the link in the OP...

who first made the conflation reagrding Conraception ad abortion?

End of story

are the Harper Conservatives a governing party - or not? Are you not personally capable of accepting your own party's position without... dismissing it... in favour of a deflection toward abortion or comments from non-governing parties. Again, are the Harper Conservatives incapable of separating abortion from contraception?

[M.Dancer]

Health Benefits of The Birth Control Pill

Strokes\

cancer

adverse side effects

[M.Dancer]

Again, are the Harper Conservatives incapable of separating abortion from contraception?

Of course. Neither will be funded.

Contraception will not be funded.

And despite Liberal insistence, abortions will not be funded.

[M.Dancer]

So why don't the Conservatives say they'll fund contraception, but not abortion. I'm sure they could find an excuse.

Maybe becasue they have been reading Eyeballs position on interference with foreign cultures and want to avoid blowback.

[waldo]

Strokes\

cancer

adverse side effects

one would think other G8 countries... the EU... would have a measured risk assessment, one particularly tailored to developing countries. Your desperation is clear in the face of denying the positions of other G8 countries, positions that counter the Harper Conservative position statement to be presented at the upcoming G8 meeting.

[M.Dancer]

one would think other G8 countries... the EU... would have a measured risk assessment.....

So you trust the EU?

[Keepitsimple]

Another example of "you can't please all of the people all of the time". This is a G8 Conference and as much as Canada will be hosting it and presenting a focused initiative on Maternal Health, the other countries are free to pipe up and say how important "Family Planning" is - and whether it should be included as a key element. If it's raised, and if there is a consensus to include it, and if Canada balks at the idea - then people can criticise the Conservatives. Personally, I think "Family Planning" is a catch-all feel-good euphemism that is viewed differently around the world. It's a broad term and is culturally sensitive as well. I think it's a self-contained Educational process that admittedly can have an indirect affect on health and poverty but is an intiative on it's own. Focusing on a clear set of goals on which there is little argument as to their merits is a good way to start an initiative. Lets see how it unfolds.

As an aside, one might ask...what does Family Planning mean; what does it include?

1) Use of condoms

2) Birth Control Pills, other devices

3) Teaching abstinence in schools

4) Sex/children outside of marriage

5) Abortion - by what rules?

6) How many children?

7) Adoption

Edited March 18, 2010 by Keepitsimple

[waldo]

are the Harper Conservatives a governing party - or not? Are you not personally capable of accepting your own party's position without... dismissing it... in favour of a deflection toward abortion or comments from non-governing parties. Again, are the Harper Conservatives incapable of separating abortion from contraception?

Of course. Neither will be funded.

Contraception will not be funded.

And despite Liberal insistence, abortions will not be funded.

excellent - you accept the Harper Conservatives are capable of separating abortion from contraception. What do you attribute the Harper Conservative rationale in not 'funding contraception' to?

more significantly, when the Harper Conservative G8 position is over-ruled by the G8 proper, what do you anticipate the Harper Conservative reaction/response to be?

[waldo]

So you trust the EU?

typical... the growing Dancer deflection dance will now include the boogeyman EU, abortion and statements from non-governing parties. Dance Dancer, dance!

[M.Dancer]

excellent - you accept the Harper Conservatives are capable of separating abortion from contraception. What do you attribute the Harper Conservative rationale in not 'funding contraception' to?

Money is better spent of health care, nutrition and education.

more significantly, when the Harper Conservative G8 position is over-ruled by the G8 proper, what do you anticipate the Harper Conservative reaction/response to be?

You mean..if...and if, I believe they will follow the consensus.

[waldo]

Another example of "you can't please all of the people all of the time". This is a G8 Conference and as much as Canada will be hosting it and presenting a focused initiative on Maternal Health, the other countries are free to pipe up and say how important "Family Planning" is - and whether it should be included as a key element. If it's raised, and if there is a consensus to include it, and if Canada balks at the idea - then people can criticise the Conservatives. Personally, I think "Family Planning" is a catch-all feel-good euphemism that is viewed differently around the world. It's a broad term and is culturally sensitive as well. Focusing on a clear set of goals on which there is little argument as to their merits is a good way to start an initiative. Lets see how it unfolds.

your feel-good response would presume to deny the positions of other G8 countries as being founded in "Maternal Health". The Harper Conservative position, at this stage, pre-G8 meeting, already runs counter to other G8 countries... criticism is warranted today.

[M.Dancer]

typical... the growing Dancer deflection dance will now include the boogeyman EU, abortion and statements from non-governing parties. Dance Dancer, dance!

Deflection? You are the one who said:

one would think other G8 countries... the EU... would have a measured risk assessment.....

Why on earth wold you think that they would be any better at protecting womens health in 3rd world countries where access to doctors is limited, than they are where acces to doctors is universal....could it be that the major pharma are european and will enjoy a massive government funded prescription?

Hmm?

[M.Dancer]

I mean really, you think anyone will notice if a % of women in Timbuktu start stroking and getting cancer?

[waldo]

Why on earth wold you think that they would be any better at protecting womens health in 3rd world countries where access to doctors is limited, than they are where acces to doctors is universal....could it be that the major pharma are european and will enjoy a massive government funded prescription?

Hmm?

what's a good Dancer deflection without a spice of conspiracy... yes, the Dancer deflection away from any focus on Harper Conservative G8 position/policy statement is to infer European "big pharma" may be behind the respective G8 country positions.

and the the growing Dancer deflection dance list grows - now to include the boogeyman EU, abortion, statements from non-governing parties... and European "big pharma". Dance Dancer, dance!

[waldo]

I mean really, you think anyone will notice if a % of women in Timbuktu start stroking and getting cancer?

that would be consistent with Harper labeling Canadian women's groups as "fringe". Does this latest dismissive comment of yours help your position that you, that Harper Conservatives, have a concern for the health of women within developing nations?

[M.Dancer]

that would be consistent with Harper labeling Canadian women's groups as "fringe". Does this latest dismissive comment of yours help your position that you, that Harper Conservatives, have a concern for the health of women within developing nations?

Yes....I would say the consrvatives are opposed to women stroking not only in developing countries but everywhere....

...if only the NDP and the Liberals would also care about women, the pill and strokes.

[waldo]

Yes....I would say the consrvatives are opposed to women stroking not only in developing countries but everywhere....

...if only the NDP and the Liberals would also care about women, the pill and strokes.

excellent - I look forward to Conservative Foreign Affairs Minister Lawrence Cannon, or Harper himself, confirming the Conservative position against including contraception is one predicated upon the health of women within developing countries... that the Harper Conservatives maintain that contraception is a detriment to woman's health. That's not been stated, so far, Dancer... you're ahead of the curve!

by the way, in Conservative Bizzaro World, are there other means of contraception besides the birth control pill? Do they similarly have health detriment or negative side effects?

[waldo]

from the CDC:

Sexually Transmitted Diseases, Including HIV Infection

* Latex condoms, when used consistently and correctly, are highly effective in preventing the sexual transmission of HIV, the virus that causes AIDS. In addition, consistent and correct use of latex condoms reduces the risk of other sexually transmitted diseases (STDs), including diseases transmitted by genital secretions, and to a lesser degree, genital ulcer diseases. Condom use may reduce the risk for genital human papillomavirus (HPV) infection and HPV-associated diseases, e.g., genital warts and cervical cancer.

hey Dancer... did you hear anything about those epidemic HIV rates in developing African nations?

[M.Dancer]

by the way, in Conservative Bizzaro World, are there other means of contraception besides the birth control pill? Do they similarly have health detriment or negative side effects?

You mean like the IUD?

[wyly]

More right wing fringe gargbage. Despite the fact that most G8 nations have gone on record supporting the need for contraception and abortion to be supported for any maternal health package, Harper puts forward his marquee plan for this year's G8 without those specific planks. Yet another embarassing blow to the Canadian image abroad.

http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/03/17/harpers-g8-maternal-health-plan/

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/blogs/bureau-blog/conservatives-accused-of-willfully-ignoring-contraception-research/article1503743/

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/birth-control-wont-be-in-g8-plan-to-protect-mothers-tories-say/article1502796/

it's their moral religious agenda they dare not show at home where the voters will punish them...well at least not until they have a majority which hopefully will not occur in my lifetime...

[M.Dancer]

from the CDC:

hey Dancer... did you hear anything about those epidemic HIV rates in developing African nations?

Did you hear that Britain is donating 42 million condoms to south africa?

http://network.nationalpost.com/NP/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2010/03/09/south-africa-to-stockpile-one-billion-condoms-for-soccer.aspx

Are you really going to try and suggest that unless condomsarepart of the womens health programme, they won't be able to get condoms?