Olympic ceremonies lack French

GostHacked · February 22, 2010

The same likely applies to the Vancouver Olympics with French by the way. Many French-speaking Vancouverites who would otherwise provide services in French in the local economy, ended up serving in the Vancouver games, leaving the rest of the city even less Francophone than usual. If they can't communicate in restaurants, hotels, etc., why would they care so much about less important venues like games? So looking at it practically, having the games in one language, the local language, would save a lot of money without causing much hardship for people from around the world.

Well, neither English of French represents Vancouver and well, Id say BC as a whole. There is a minute french speaking population in BC. About 50% of the faces you see are Asian. If you were to represent the population of BC with languages, French is not in the top 5.

http://www.gov.bc.ca/bcfacts/

The top 10 languages spoken are now (according to the 2001 Census): English, Chinese (including Cantonese and Mandarin), Punjabi, German, French, Tagalog, Spanish, Italian, Korean, and Dutch.

Mind you this is 2001. The Chinese languages are second to English in BC. I am surprised Dutch is on the list.

This french thing is completely idiotic. Le.

Machjo · February 22, 2010

If we gonna have Olympics, we should be doing it right. As for the "while people sleep on the streets" routine, and that's what you're down to... I for one do not need to see anything more on your idea.

Would you mind elaborating on my 'routine'? Maybe you could teach me something about myself.

dizzy · February 22, 2010

This french thing is completely idiotic. Le.

We are the most successful multicultural, multilingual country in the world. I grew up in toronto schools where the mother tongues of students numbered in the 100 range. I love it.

I realize that vancouver is pretty far from french canada and I do generally support a more regional approach to languages. Thing is, french is both an official language for this country and the IOC. It is also a courtesy to the many francophone athletes from Quebec (like our first gold-bringer on home soil, M. Bilodeau) and other regions that we include their first language in the coverage and commentary.

Wilber · February 22, 2010

We are the most successful multicultural, multilingual country in the world. I grew up in toronto schools where the mother tongues of students numbered in the 100 range. I love it.

I realize that vancouver is pretty far from french canada and I do generally support a more regional approach to languages. Thing is, french is both an official language for this country and the IOC. It is also a courtesy to the many francophone athletes from Quebec (like our first gold-bringer on home soil, M. Bilodeau) and other regions that we include their first language in the coverage and commentary.

Do we cater to the official Canada or the reality of Canada. Are Canadians from cultures other than English, French or Native descent any less Canadian because they are not official? No offense to any of the afore mentioned but it is a question this country will be forced to deal with more and more as our demographic changes.

Smallc · February 22, 2010

Do we cater to the official Canada or the reality of Canada. Are Canadians from cultures other than English, French or Native descent any less Canadian because they are not official?

We're not talking about culture, but rather language. I don't see a scenario in which either of the official languages lost that status at any time in Canada. I also don't see further languages being added. This is about the reality of Canadian culture, language and history, things that are very must based around our two official languages. It's not choosing between official and reality. It just is.

Machjo · February 22, 2010

We're not talking about culture, but rather language. I don't see a scenario in which either of the official languages lost that status at any time in Canada. I also don't see further languages being added. This is about the reality of Canadian culture, language and history, things that are very must based around our two official languages. It's not choosing between official and reality. It just is.

Language is a means through which culture is communicated. At the height of the Roman Empire, I'm sure it was believed that the Empire would exist forever. At the height of the British Empire, I'm sure the British likewise believed that the British Empire would remain forever. It's human nature to believe that your society will never change. Our demographics and our world views are changing and this will affect how future generations perceive their own country. That is as the same reality that ran through all of the nations and empires of the past.

dizzy · February 22, 2010

Do we cater to the official Canada or the reality of Canada. Are Canadians from cultures other than English, French or Native descent any less Canadian because they are not official? No offense to any of the afore mentioned but it is a question this country will be forced to deal with more and more as our demographic changes.

I'm not sure how attuned you are to the new revolution taking place in quebec but let me assure you that, while the official and 'real' canadas are still in constant collision, neither is growing irrelevant. I am a 1st generation south asian now living in quebec with a toronto-born son of mixed race from an 'anglo' mother who was raised near guelph. He goes to school in french and, by many definitions, is a francophone. I am one of many immigrants and their children who have bought into both the canadian and quebec dreams. The next generation will be the most exciting in canadian history and, I can assure you, it will include a strong place for the french language and francophone culture.

This should not become a conversation about the death of french. By all accounts the french language is a growing reality across Canada despite the shrinking 'pure laine' francophone population.

Smallc · February 22, 2010

By all accounts the french language is a growing reality across Canada despite the shrinking 'pure laine' francophone population.

I would say even more than that, bilingualism is in fact growing across Canada. It's up around the 20% mark now, and according to what I've read, it's only going to increase over the coming years.

Machjo · February 22, 2010

I would say even more than that, bilingualism is in fact growing across Canada. It's up around the 20% mark now, and according to what I've read, it's only going to increase over the coming years.

Not quite. According to the link below, it's about 17%, and bear in mind that this is based on self-assessment. One particular experiment in Europe in 2001 had compared the results of self-assessment and objective tests and had found a 10% drop in the objetive tests. Based on that, we can conclude that even the 17% might be high, based on rudimentary knowledge only.

Smallc · February 22, 2010

I've read links saying that it has in fact increased to around 18.5% (the 17.4% number comes from a census taken about 4 years ago) and is continuing to climb.

Edited February 22, 2010 by Smallc

Oleg Bach · February 23, 2010

And of course each and every country in the world is switching to English as its sole official language, one by one, right?

The cold and hard stiff upper lip that was the heart of the British empire was personified cruelness - and yes - one by one they switch to English and if not the weaker ones will sucumb to the great military industrial machine - that happens to speak only English...frankly - as for French _ I don't care - The French don't care about me and I in turn return the contempt.

Machjo · February 23, 2010

I've read links saying that it has in fact increased to around 18.5% (the 17.4% number comes from a census taken about 4 years ago) and is continuing to climb.

I remember reading an article on the Statistics Canada website awhile back (bearing in mind that I think it was based on the 2006 statistics you're referring to) that the rate of official bilingualism was dropping among youths but rising among adults.

Also, I'd be curious, the other links you'd read, were they based on self-assessment or objective test results? Remember, some people call themselves bilingual because they can function as tourists for example, which requires a much lower level of competence than the language skills you'd need in a trade or profession for example.

dizzy · February 23, 2010

- as for French _ I don't care - The French don't care about me and I in turn return the contempt.

I suspect that you're smart enough to know the many benefits of growing with more than one language.

The pains of linguistics politics are a distant matter when compared with the benefits of living in a multilingual society.

Machjo · February 23, 2010

The cold and hard stiff upper lip that was the heart of the British empire was personified cruelness - and yes - one by one they switch to English and if not the weaker ones will sucumb to the great military industrial machine - that happens to speak only English...frankly - as for French _ I don't care - The French don't care about me and I in turn return the contempt.

So because a few bigotted Frenchmen hate you, you'll stoop to their level and hate the whole of France back? How magnanymous of you. Now, what does that have to do with Canada, or were you referring to French Canadians?

Wilber · February 23, 2010

I could care less whether or not the closing ceremonies have more or less French or any other language than the opening ceremonies. Too bad some Canadians can't just enjoy the show. I plan on it, regardless.

Oleg Bach · February 23, 2010

I suspect that you're smart enough to know the many benefits of growing with more than one language.

The pains of linguistics politics are a distant matter when compared with the benefits of living in a multilingual society.

I like multi-cultural and multi-gingual society - Just don't have much use for an us and them non-multiligualism...French is much to dominant a player and expects tolerance but gives little.

dizzy · February 23, 2010

I like multi-cultural and multi-gingual society - Just don't have much use for an us and them non-multiligualism...French is much to dominant a player and expects tolerance but gives little.

Not true. Bilingualism is much more promininent in Quebec than in the rest of Canada. In Quebec we had the option of placing our son in a french or english school system. In Ontario I had the option of enrolling in a public or catholic system. Francophones do much more to accommodate anglos than you think.

Oleg Bach · February 23, 2010

Maybe it's just prejudice. One of my younger brothers is married to a French Canadian - and I would sell my soul if I could get the devine promise of never laying ears or eyes on this horrid creature..but I believe you that there must be some nice French in existance..maybe.

dizzy · February 23, 2010

Maybe it's just prejudice. One of my younger brothers is married to a French Canadian - and I would sell my soul if I could get the devine promise of never laying ears or eyes on this horrid creature..but I believe you that there must be some nice French in existance..maybe.

LOL! I do agree that there is a disquieting chauvinism that comes from the second team in any country. I have a lot of 'roll my eyes' moments here in la belle province. Likewise, I think that a lot of white americans are tired of being reminded by black americans that they aren't black. but 400 yrs of slavery and a 100 yrs of segregation will do that to a person. While, I don't think that the plight of the french canadian was quite that ugly, I also don't think it was something particularly honourable. Franco society is very old and established in Canada but, in some ways, I think it is very new. They have only in the last generation learned to appreciate their own voice (quite literally, retiring the desire to sound France French). A little didacticism is understandable, for now...

CANADIEN · February 23, 2010

Not true. Bilingualism is much more promininent in Quebec than in the rest of Canada. In Quebec we had the option of placing our son in a french or english school system. In Ontario I had the option of enrolling in a public or catholic system. Francophones do much more to accommodate anglos than you think.

French schools DO exist in Ontario. Actually, access to french schools in Ontario is less restricted than access to English schools in Quebec.

CANADIEN · February 23, 2010

The cold and hard stiff upper lip that was the heart of the British empire was personified cruelness - and yes - one by one they switch to English and if not the weaker ones will sucumb to the great military industrial machine - that happens to speak only English...frankly - as for French _ I don't care - The French don't care about me and I in turn return the contempt.

Apart from Rwanda and some former British colonies, how many countries in recent years have switched to English as their sole official language andhave abandoned their national languages. Please feel free to give us the number. and the names. Is it the Netherlands? Danemark? Japan? China? Brasil? Please please enlighten us.

Machjo · February 23, 2010

Maybe it's just prejudice. One of my younger brothers is married to a French Canadian - and I would sell my soul if I could get the devine promise of never laying ears or eyes on this horrid creature..but I believe you that there must be some nice French in existance..maybe.

Oh come off it. I was married to a French-speaking (in fact, that was our habitual language of communication) Ethiopian from a Muslim family. The local African American, Muslim and Ethiopia communities dragged us both through hell because I was white, non-Ethiopian, and non-Muslim.

In the end, she ended up using me, and I'm quite disappointed in her today; I'd married her because I actually thought we was a good person. Today, however, I harbour no ill will against Blacks, Ethiopians, or Muslims. I can differentiate between the racists, fanatics and bigots within their groups, and the group as a whole. I also recognize that some of the things she did had to do with her own character and not her ethnicity.

Any mature adult worthy of the name ought to be able to distinguish between individuals and groups. If you hate French-speakers because of what one French-speaker did to you, then should I hate all English-speakers around the world because of what some English-speakers called me in the past for being French-speaking?

It's people like you who start gang wars, or even military conflicts between nations, and who promote hatred and division between communities. You need to learn to distinguish between individual persons within groups.

CANADIEN · February 23, 2010

Taking that logic to its logical extreme, then assuming I didn't know French, would I be entitled to a government interpretor paid for by taxpayers to accompany me to Quebec City so I can shop around more comfortably in some Quebec suburb?

I wasn;t aware than anybody was talking about what languages is spoken in private businesses. Feel free to stumble into the absurd. I have said what I had to say.

dizzy · February 23, 2010

French schools DO exist in Ontario. Actually, access to french schools in Ontario is less restricted than access to English schools in Quebec.

I do agree that there are unfair access restrictions for some quebec residents to english schools. Still, there are english schools in the small town where I live. There are english schools in Montreal and in many places, both urban and rural, across the province. Care to do a count on how many french schools (not french immersion) there are in toronto? Find me french schools outside of the eastern and north eastern ontario regions. And, within those ontario regions where french schools exist, try to register a child who is not already french-speaking. At least the bill 104 restrictions are on paper, so that they can be challenged.

Edited February 23, 2010 by dizzy

Machjo · February 23, 2010

French schools DO exist in Ontario. Actually, access to french schools in Ontario is less restricted than access to English schools in Quebec.

French-medium schools, yes, but they aren't French schools from France. I know you know, but it seems a few in this forum have some difficulty distinguishing between the Frenchmen and French Canadians, so I thought I'd clarify.