U.S. to withhold loan guarantees to Israel?

[naomiglover]

Mr Mitchell, who is due to return to the Middle East this month in his latest attempt to restart negotiations, was asked on Wednesday in an interview with America's PBS how the US could bring pressure to bear on Israel.

"Under American law, the United States can withhold support on loan guarantees to Israel," he said.

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This is Obama's challenge. We will have to see if George Mitchell and the Obama administration really mean it and that they can resist the pressure to accept the interionally recognized illegal building of settlements by Israel in East Jerusalem.

[bush_cheney2004]

...This is Obama's challenge. We will have to see if George Mitchell and the Obama administration really mean it and that they can resist the pressure to accept the interionally recognized illegal building of settlements by Israel in East Jerusalem.

This is NOT Obama's challenge....he has already defined his domestic and foreign policy agenda and it does not include starting a political firestorm in the middle of trying to move legislation forward.

[naomiglover]

This is NOT Obama's challenge....he has already defined his domestic and foreign policy agenda and it does not include starting a political firestorm in the middle of trying to move legislation forward.

This is part of his foreign policy agenda. He has said he will be re-starting the talks between Israelis and Palestinians. As it is part of the MidEast Roadmap, Israel must freeze all settlement activities. Israel refuses to do this and the U.S., as they have done before, can use the handout Israel receives as a way to put pressure on them.

[Guest American Woman]

....the U.S., as they have done before, can use the handout Israel receives as a way to put pressure on them.

Since you yourself point out that it's been done before, what, exactly, do you think would ultimately be accomplished if Obama did withhold loan guarantees? Do you think it ultimately changed anything in the past?

[bush_cheney2004]

This is part of his foreign policy agenda. He has said he will be re-starting the talks between Israelis and Palestinians. As it is part of the MidEast Roadmap, Israel must freeze all settlement activities. Israel refuses to do this and the U.S., as they have done before, can use the handout Israel receives as a way to put pressure on them.

Good luck with that....I count more settlements over the years....not less. The US will play rope-a-dope with Israel's detractors just as before.

[naomiglover]

Since you yourself point out that it's been done before, what, exactly, do you think would ultimately be accomplished if Obama did withhold loan guarantees? Do you think it ultimately changed anything in the past?

If Obama is able to stick to his guns, unlike before when Bush Sr. ended up giving into pressure and freeing up the loans, then we may see a different result.

[bush_cheney2004]

If Obama is able to stick to his guns, unlike before when Bush Sr. ended up giving into pressure and freeing up the loans, then we may see a different result.

But why would we want a different result? Obama will support US interests.,,,and his own domestic agenda.

[naomiglover]

But why would we want a different result? Obama will support US interests.,,,and his own domestic agenda.

A fair and just Palestinian State may not be in Israel's interest, but I have no idea why you wouldn't think it would be in U.S.'s interest.

[bush_cheney2004]

A fair and just Palestinian State may not be in Israel's interest, but I have no idea why you wouldn't think it would be in U.S.'s interest.

I think you have answered your own question. "Fair and just" is code for even more US handouts....to Israel, Jordan, Egypt and Palestine.

[naomiglover]

I think you have answered your own question. "Fair and just" is code for even more US handouts....to Israel, Jordan, Egypt and Palestine.

The handouts that Jordan and Egypt receive are heavily backed by Israeli lobby groups and the military-industrial complex. It does nothing to help U.S.' security. In fact, it puts U.S. at more risk by escalating the tension that the illegal treatment the Palestinians are facing. Palestinian handouts from the U.S. should not even be discussed since it's nothing compared to the billions the other countries receive. All it really does is keep corrupt politicians in power.

A fair and just Palestinian state means just that. If withholding Israel's handout will push Israel to stop the stupid settlements that have absolute no benefit, then I don't see why you wouldn't support it.

[bush_cheney2004]

The handouts that Jordan and Egypt receive are heavily backed by Israeli lobby groups and the military-industrial complex. It does nothing to help U.S.' security.

The US also has a "military industrial complex". It benefits significantly from these relationships.

In fact, it puts U.S. at more risk by escalating the tension that the illegal treatment the Palestinians are facing. Palestinian handouts from the U.S. should not even be discussed since it's nothing compared to the billions the other countries receive. All it really does is keep corrupt politicians in power.

Well, at least you admit the "handouts" exist, even if frittered away by the Palestinian leadership. Hell, it would be an improvement for Palestine if even corrupt politicians could form a viable government.

A fair and just Palestinian state means just that. If withholding Israel's handout will push Israel to stop the stupid settlements that have absolute no benefit, then I don't see why you wouldn't support it.

Because you can't have a "fair and just" Palstinian state by adding security risks for Israel or other nations. "Fair and just" has always been code for terrorists and sympathizers after they have lost the battle(s) they've started.

[naomiglover]

The US also has a "military industrial complex". It benefits significantly from these relationships.

It helps the pocket of a few who run them, but in return, it increases the chances of another U.S. attack.

Because you can't have a "fair and just" Palstinian state by adding security risks for Israel or other nations. "Fair and just" has always been code for terrorists and sympathizers after they have lost the battle(s) they've started.

A Palestinian state does not equal to security risks for Israel. It doesn't have to. Unless if you are talking about the risk of Israel not being able to annex more land. This is a simple case of Israel stalling any process in order to grab more land. If there is a Palestinian state, the land grabbing will have to stop. Some in Israel do not want that. Unfortunately, those people are running the Israeli government and have been successfully lobbying the U.S. government.

I feel that George Mitchell and Obama are interested in ending this nonsense, which has brought nothing but problems for the U.S. and its security. So if they can use the Israeli handout as a leverage, then it should be supported by those who care for the U.S.

Edited January 12, 2010 by naomiglover

[bush_cheney2004]

It helps the pocket of a few who run them, but in return, it increases the chances of another U.S. attack.

The cost benefit analysis favors the current arrangement...there is no guarantee of reduced risk from appeasing terrorists.

A Palestinian state does not equal to security risks for Israel. It doesn't have to. Unless if you are talking about the risk of Israel not being able to annex more land. This is a simple case of Israel stalling any process in order to grab more land. If there is a Palestinian state, the land grabbing will have to stop. Some in Israel do not want that. Unfortunately, those people are running the Israeli government and have been successfully lobbying the U.S. government.

Israel will "grab" as much land as is necessary until the Palestinian "leadership" figures out that theirs is a failed strategy. "Land for peace" has always been the game...either way.

I feel that George Mitchell and Obama are interested in ending this nonsense, which has brought nothing but problems for the U.S. and its security. So if they can use the Israeli handout as a leverage, then it should be supported by those who care for the U.S.

Feelings don't count for much compared to realpolitik. Egypt, Israel, and Jordan figured it out 30 years ago....so what's Palestine's problem? Caring for the "U.S." is a weak strategy given the history for the region. Seek true love elsewhere.

Edited January 12, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[Oleg Bach]

Being a mimic of God or being religious is a good thing...as long as while doing the work it is the work of God which is good works for everbody..whether Muslime secularist or Jew - if you are doing good - you should have finacial support - If you are doing bad things you should get nothing - and that would get rid of many evils- Evil needs cash and lots of it. The problem with American foreign policy is it does not differentiate between good and bad...and to support a bad culture is tossing good money after bad. Israel needs to behave and America should stop treating it as a spoiled nephew who seeks continued unearned privledges.

[bush_cheney2004]

..... The problem with American foreign policy is it does not differentiate between good and bad...and to support a bad culture is tossing good money after bad. Israel needs to behave and America should stop treating it as a spoiled nephew who seeks continued unearned privledges.

There is no problem at all....even Canada gets a piece of the action. Do your chores...or you get no allowance from Uncle Sugar.

[Oleg Bach]

There is no problem at all....even Canada gets a piece of the action. Do your chores...or you get no allowance from Uncle Sugar.

Let me whisper this to you in confidence before the other members wake up --- You are becoming predictable, or is that reliable? Israel is a touchy subject..not because we in the west love the people but because it is an American and Canadian out post in the middle east...It's kind of like a western style fort set up on the plains in order to slowly subdue the Arabs and their wealth...if it was not for oil - and the hope of stealing it all - Israel would have been abandoned a long time ago.

[bush_cheney2004]

Let me whisper this to you in confidence before the other members wake up --- You are becoming predictable, or is that reliable?

More like...consistent.

Israel is a touchy subject..not because we in the west love the people but because it is an American and Canadian out post in the middle east...It's kind of like a western style fort set up on the plains in order to slowly subdue the Arabs and their wealth...if it was not for oil - and the hope of stealing it all - Israel would have been abandoned a long time ago.

Works for me..but it's not just the oil. Many American cities started as forts...how do you like us now?

[Oleg Bach]

More like...consistent.

Works for me..but it's not just the oil. Many American cities started as forts...how do you like us now?

Don't make the loyalist come down one more time and make the White House black again. I like you just fine BC - I wish you would just shut up and relax a bit. The us them thing is tiresome. You are a friend ...Find someone today that you can do the American stand up shlock with...So is it really true that many American cities started off as FARTS? Think I am done for the day on the machine..You take the helm and sail this baby into heavenly waters...after all you are an admiral! Continue educating these Canadian students...Have you noticed they are less extreme these days on the forums? Could it be because I out extremed them all? Or is Anthony simply managing the editing and banishment of bottom feeders? Anyway get back to work and enough of the us and them...I know you love to piss the nationalist off. Try a new approach....use your imagination.

[myata]

I said before, talking is cheap. Let's see if / when it translates into anything real.

[bush_cheney2004]

Don't make the loyalist come down one more time and make the White House black again. I like you just fine BC - I wish you would just shut up and relax a bit. The us them thing is tiresome.

Sorry, but the producers said I need to keep kicking you in the nuts for higher ratings. "Us and them" is how it all came to be, so go have a Coke and a smile, and get ready for the next volly.

[Oleg Bach]

Sorry, but the producers said I need to keep kicking you in the nuts for higher ratings. "Us and them" is how it all came to be, so go have a Coke and a smile, and get ready for the next volly.

My favorite line in a movie was in Achilles - where the barbarian viking type guy looks at Brad Pitt and says " finally a man worth killing" - Yes the advesarial system has been around for a long time - had a real problem with in during my run through the Canadian courts - I would ask judges why it was so - they said the same thing as you - the producers expect some action...When I got to the top of the heap and pulled aside the curtain at Oz - there was no body there..The whole thing was on auto. Okay if it makes you happy, fire away....just try to use rubber bullits and avoid the face and teeth.