Time For Harper To Resign.

[Oleg Bach]

What is the Harper factor? Is it a certain lagging element of corporated political agenda? Is he out of date and begining to smell of decay? Harper is clearly a left over Cheneyite. As Richard Cheney is having great difficulty letting go and lacks the grace to bow out and leave..Harper who for the most part recieved his instructions from corporate America is hoplessly waiting for a signal on how to proceed. Do these people not know that their day in the sun has ended?

Everyone gets a kick at the can...one kick..then it's up to the next person to move it along - My biggest gripe with Harper is his devestating lack of statesmanship. By now he should have taken his sorry ass to Afghanistan and sat down with the good guys and the bad guys and through force of personality, honour and spirit brokered a peace..instead of being a lazy ass waiting to be told what to do and doing nothing because the former American administration is no more!

It is slowly getting to be evident that once Ignatieff gets re-booted and gets his stride...He is capable of behaving as an independent and solving some of our international difficulties that are wasting good Canadian blood. The seizing of Parliment for no good reason other than attempting to maintain power that he is to inept to contain or use with positive results. The fact that he has nothing to say about anything is greatly distrubing. Harper had his fun and got to be a big shot. Time for him to go out back with that hockey stick and puck and skate on the old farm pond. He is NOT a statesman..he makes no statement that provides an answer or guidance for this nation or other nations. All he can do is cower under the fading glory of Richard Cheney and all of those other failed corporates who should have never gotten involved in war or politics. That is NOT their job..nor their talent.

[Moonbox]

Another barely intelligible, poorly thought out rant.

Good job Oleg. Keep it up.

[Oleg Bach]

Another barely intelligible, poorly thought out rant.

Good job Oleg. Keep it up.

I

[Oleg Bach]

It is always about the selfish needs of the I ... looks like you found this new topic disturbing. Apparently your retort is much like those of most neo-cons - attempt to discredit by involking the "he's nuts clause" ...sorry there Mr. Moonbeam or what ever you call yourself..but it makes total sense to me...I want someone to represent this nation internatinaly - not on a local and what appears to be a pedestrian head of the high school debating society.

We have a choice here - to unite with our good American brothers as equals and advisors or to continue to submit to some jerks that have trouble controling their arrogant tempers...like the raging Richard Cheney and his cowering bum boy Bush...it's up to you..besides the corporates are about to retire...let the old guard go my friend and let in the fresh blood to take over this nation..enough ! As for rants and being non-communiative as you described me - YOU GIVE ME A RANT IN FAVOUR OF HARPER....GO FOR IT.

[Moonbox]

Apparently your retort is much like those of most neo-cons - attempt to discredit by involking the "he's nuts clause" ...sorry there Mr. Moonbeam or what ever you call yourself..but it makes total sense to me...

You got me good there...Mr. Moonbeam. ZING!

As for Harper, I don't even like him and I won't be voting for him again, so so much for me being a neo con lol.

I want someone to represent this nation internatinaly - not on a local and what appears to be a pedestrian head of the high school debating society.

This is what I mean by 'rant'. Nothing you say really makes any sense. We all understand that you don't like Harper. That's fine. I don't blame you. The rest of what you're saying is just a bunch of poorly written, poorly thought out and meaningless fluff. You're full of hot air and rhetoric and that's generally why you get so little feedback from your posts.

We have a choice here - to unite with our good American brothers as equals and advisors or to continue to submit to some jerks that have trouble controling their arrogant tempers...like the raging Richard Cheney and his cowering bum boy Bush...it's up to you..besides the corporates are about to retire...let the old guard go my friend and let in the fresh blood to take over this nation..enough ! As for rants and being non-communiative as you described me - YOU GIVE ME A RANT IN FAVOUR OF HARPER....GO FOR IT.

....................

Edited January 11, 2010 by Moonbox

[Bugs]

You got me good there...Mr. Moonbeam. ZING!

As for Harper, I don't even like him and I won't be voting for him again, so so much for me being a neo con lol.

This is what I mean by 'rant'. Nothing you say really makes any sense. We all understand that you don't like Harper. That's fine. I don't blame you. The rest of what you're saying is just a bunch of poorly written, poorly thought out and meaningless fluff. You're full of hot air and rhetoric and that's generally why you get so little feedback from your posts.

..................

You have to admit, he has a point, Oleg.

Neither you not Moonbox like Harper very much, and I am not sure of the reasons (although Oleg's use of the term " ... a left over Cheneyite ..." is suggestive).

For me, Iggy is the best leader of the Liberal Party that the Conservatives could have. I don't want to criticize him. However, he seems unusually inept, and awkward, stumbling around in Canadian politics, skidding from one position to another, picking policy fights with Liberal policies ... such as EI eligibility ... essentially because he's such a fucking -- excuse my language, but it is exactly the right word -- such a fucking cosmopolitan that he can't understand the elemental poles of Canadian politics.

He thinks that Ralph Goodale is a Roger Dangerfield. He can't do anything but patronize most Canadians, because he thinks the country is full of rubes and yokels! The way the situation got out of control with Coderre is only the gravest of his errors.

The most recent, most laughable example of his political dumbness is surely his complaining of Harper giving himself a holiday while on holiday ...

You seem to be of two minds about him yourself.

It is slowly getting to be evident that once Ignatieff gets re-booted and gets his stride...He is capable of behaving as an independent and solving some of our international difficulties that are wasting good Canadian blood. The seizing of Parliment for no good reason other than attempting to maintain power that he is to inept to contain or use with positive results. The fact that he has nothing to say about anything is greatly distrubing.

Why would Harper give up power to such a man? It would be irresponsible. He's waited patiently to get to the position he's in now. Normally economic crises favour opposition parties, but these Liberals are so bad that now they are the scarier alternative.

In opposition to your view, I'd defend the position that Harper is the indispensable guy, right now. Who do you think mainstream Canadians would rather trust to run the economy at a time of great instability and challenge? Harper and Flaherty, or Ignatieff and Layton? You see what I mean? Who would replace Harper?

(I know, I know, he'll get better, but the Liberals have obviously put Iggy in training wheels while they teach him the ropes. It'll take at least a year to turn him into Belinda Stronach.)

But this is what confuses me the most:

My biggest gripe with Harper is his devastating lack of statesmanship. By now he should have taken his sorry ass to Afghanistan and sat down with the good guys and the bad guys and through force of personality, honour and spirit brokered a peace..instead of being a lazy ass waiting to be told what to do and doing nothing because the former American administration is no more!

I am astounded that someone can see the same things I do and come to such radically different conclusions.

You misinterpret Harper's statesmanship because of your intense negative feelings about the USA, and your desire for a morally acceptable international order. Look deeper.

Harper is the most Pearsonian PM we've had since Pearson. With environment, for example, he works to keep the big powers at the table by promoting the center position. When he announced that Canada would not meet its Kyoto goals at the G-8 meeting, it effectively killed Kyoto. Which, itself, was a step forward. Since then, he has tried to separate the baby -- international cooperation on the environment -- and the bathwater -- all that stuff about carbon credits. He sold the target dates and the way of calculating limits. It's all tentative, as they move towards a treaty, but Harper is punching above Canada's weight, and playing a positive role, because there won't be any solution without China. Bottom line.

Give the man a break.

Comments?

Edited January 12, 2010 by Bugs

[Oleg Bach]

Truely I do not dislike Mr. Harper nor do I adore or admire him. I was hoping to generate at least one statesman like comment in support of Harper...frankly I really do not put much substance or thought behind discussion regarding figure heads of state. Of course my post is not well thought out - nor is it calculated..It's just an observation regarding the one dimentional person of our Little Mr. Big. When a guy attempts to win over western Canada by putting on a cowboy outfit like a five year old at a dress up birthday party it just makes me wonder.

As far as him stepping aside, what is so very precious about this Prime Public Servant - reminds me of an up and coming bureacrat that would do better for the nation working in the banking sector where he belongs. Too the point of unfocused non-calculated postings that some seem to think I have become expert at ---well....If you give something to much thought you are bound in time to rationalize to the point of absurdity - but that is what politics are...absurd - Imagine when you have nothing to grant the nation as far as needed inspiration - you prorouge parliment in effect stopping others from meaningful contribution.

[Oleg Bach]

You have to admit, he has a point, Oleg.

Neither of you like Harper, and I am not sure of the reasons (although Oleg's use of the term " ... a left over Cheneyite ..." gives us a bit of insight).

Why would Harper give up power? He's waited patiently to get to position he is in now. What people don't realize is this -- whereas an economic crisis favours the opposition, these Liberals are now the scarier alternative.

In opposition to your view, I would defend the position that Harper is the indispensable guy, right now. Who do you think mainstream Canadians would rather trust to run the economy at a time of great instability and challenge? Harper and Flaherty, or Ignatieff and Layton?

In any case, why would Harper bow out now? He has governed for almost 5 years now, with almost 60% of the electorate against him, and he's improved his showing every time out. His caucus is behind him. The public is coming around to him. It's all looking up. He has the very best guy to run against, in Ignatieff. I know, I know, he'll get better, but the Liberals have obviously put training wheels on him while they teach him the ropes.

This is what confuses me the most:

I am astounded that someone can see the same things I do and come to such radically different conclusions.

For me, Iggy is the best leader of the Liberal Party that the Conservatives could have chosen. I don't want to criticize him. However, he seems unusually inept, and strange, stumbling around in Canadian politics, skidding from one position to another, picking policy fights with Liberal policies ... such as EI eligibility ... essentially because he's such a fucking -- excuse my language, but it is exactly the right word -- such a fucking cosmopolitan that he can't understand the elemental poles active in the Canadian political energy field. He thinks that Ralph Goodale is a Roger Dangerfield. He can't do anything but patronize most Canadians, because he thinks the country is full of rubes and yokels! The way the situation got out of control with Coderre is only the gravest of his errors.

The most recent, most laughable example of his political dumbness is surely his complaining of Harper giving himself a holiday while on holiday ...

You seem to be of two minds about him yourself.

You totally misinterpret Harper's statesmanship because of your intense negative feelings about the USA. Look deeper. He is the most Pearsonian PM we've had since Pearson. With environment, for example, Harper works to keep the big powers at the table, by promoting the center position. When he announced that Canada would not meet its Kyoto goals at the G-8 meeting, it effectively killed Kyoto. Since then, he has tried to separate the baby -- international cooperation on the environment -- and the bathwater -- all that stuff about carbon credits. He sold the target dates and the way of calculating limits. It's all tentative, as they move towards a treaty, but Harper is punching above Canada's weight, and playing a positive role, because there won't be any solution without China. Bottom line.

Comments?

Being a dumb rube I warned people years ago that with out the co-operation of China - it would be like negotiating with the cook in the kitchen who has an open fire going with the doors and windows shut - eventually the whole house will be filled with choking smoke...I never heard Harper or any western leader mention to China that it's so called development must be stopped...Of course no one would curb the behaviour of China seeing the persons that put Harper in office are making a bundle on trade with this barbaric and smoked out eastern offender...All I can tell from standing on my little rube hill is that everyone is in a conflict of interest and it's international in scope...and Harper along with the other stoolies still take their lead from the American buisness elite who swear they did not shit on the global atmospheric stage.

[bush_cheney2004]

Truely I do not dislike Mr. Harper nor do I adore or admire him. I was hoping to generate at least one statesman like comment in support of Harper...frankly I really do not put much substance or thought behind discussion regarding figure heads of state. Of course my post is not well thought out - nor is it calculated..It's just an observation regarding the one dimentional person of our Little Mr. Big.....

"Little" compared to what? Alas, you fall into the most common trap around here, defining domestic entities and relationships in American terms, because the alternative is to admit that without such a foil such comments would be bland and unremarkable at best. It's not your fault, but surely bold colors for the political palette can come from Canada instead.

[Oleg Bach]

Being a dumb rube I warned people years ago that with out the co-operation of China - it would be like negotiating with the cook in the kitchen who has an open fire going with the doors and windows shut - eventually the whole house will be filled with choking smoke...I never heard Harper or any western leader mention to China that it's so called development must be stopped...Of course no one would curb the behaviour of China seeing the persons that put Harper in office are making a bundle on trade with this barbaric and smoked out eastern offender...All I can tell from standing on my little rube hill is that everyone is in a conflict of interest and it's international in scope...and Harper along with the other stoolies still take their lead from the American buisness elite who swear they did not shit on the global atmospheric stage.

While I am at it let it be known ----I love America and feel sorry for this habitualist giant that reminds me of a crack head that can not stop abusing himself and others - Now all underdeveloped nations want to mimic this global energy junky...so how are we going to fix things when the poor in the world want 1950s prosperity...You can only have a wave like that once and we were lucky enough to catch it - the planet will not stand a second wave of plunder for the sake of heavenly luxury...Yes I love America and Canada - I just wish our high up the food chain monkeys loved their home also - but they are citizens of the globe and of the cosmos and we are mere mortals.

[capricorn]

AKIN: Do (you) see yourself in a decade -- you may not be prime minister -- do you see a career for yourself after this? I don't sense you're the board of directors type but I don't know, maybe you are -- an academic? What do you want to do? Where are you in a decade?

HARPER: Well, first of all, I think to be fair, let's give the people of Canada an opportunity to retire me before I have to cast my mind to this . . .

AKIN: Well, let's assume one day they will, it might be 20 years, who knows?

HARPER: I would hope not to die in office. My wife sometimes thinks I may be headed that way but, now that I'm 50, we're trying to live a somewhat better lifestyle . . . But look, I'm not going to speculate. I'm honoured to have the job that I have I plan to do it a while longer but I don't plan to be a lifer in politics. I'm not sure that that's really in anybody's interests. I don't think it's in the country's interests or the party's interests or my own interests but, in my own judgment, I still have a while to serve but ultimately at some point the Canadian people will be asked to make that judgment for me.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/blogs/spector-vision/the-beginning-of-the-end-for-stephen-harper/article1421932/

He likes his job. He still leads in the polls (although that's no guarantee he won't be turfed in the next election, as Paul Martin learned). As things stand, there is no reason for a Harper resignation.

[bush_cheney2004]

While I am at it let it be known ----I love America and feel sorry for this habitualist giant that reminds me of a crack head that can not stop abusing himself and others....

Then you also need to be reminded how the "crack head" got to be the Giant.

[Oleg Bach]

Okay Steve can stay - He has one supporter..who tells me that he has no good reason to resign...as long as someone is speaking up for him - took you long enough to come to his aid! Shame on all the conservatives...I thought for sure I would be clobbered. I really don't want to imagine Haper crying in his pillow...I bet you he's a big baby...I don't have the heart to break his heart. END OF RANT...what did I learn here...?

[Oleg Bach]

Then you also need to be reminded how the "crack head" got to be the Giant.

By eating all the little crack heads and consuming the crack pot tin pot dictators? How am I supposed to know BC - I'm just an entertainer!

[whowhere]

What is the Harper factor? Is it a certain lagging element of corporated political agenda? Is he out of date and begining to smell of decay? Harper is clearly a left over Cheneyite. As Richard Cheney is having great difficulty letting go and lacks the grace to bow out and leave..Harper who for the most part recieved his instructions from corporate America is hoplessly waiting for a signal on how to proceed. Do these people not know that their day in the sun has ended?

Everyone gets a kick at the can...one kick..then it's up to the next person to move it along - My biggest gripe with Harper is his devestating lack of statesmanship. By now he should have taken his sorry ass to Afghanistan and sat down with the good guys and the bad guys and through force of personality, honour and spirit brokered a peace..instead of being a lazy ass waiting to be told what to do and doing nothing because the former American administration is no more!

It is slowly getting to be evident that once Ignatieff gets re-booted and gets his stride...He is capable of behaving as an independent and solving some of our international difficulties that are wasting good Canadian blood. The seizing of Parliment for no good reason other than attempting to maintain power that he is to inept to contain or use with positive results. The fact that he has nothing to say about anything is greatly distrubing. Harper had his fun and got to be a big shot. Time for him to go out back with that hockey stick and puck and skate on the old farm pond. He is NOT a statesman..he makes no statement that provides an answer or guidance for this nation or other nations. All he can do is cower under the fading glory of Richard Cheney and all of those other failed corporates who should have never gotten involved in war or politics. That is NOT their job..nor their talent.

As with anyone with power...Take it from my cold dead hands. The only way for him to go will be defeat or disgrace.

[bush_cheney2004]

As with anyone with power...Take it from my cold dead hands. The only way for him to go will be defeat or disgrace.

That's right....and his opposition has been the Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight...again and again. I hope PM Harper is laughing his ass off.

[Oleg Bach]

As with anyone with power...Take it from my cold dead hands. The only way for him to go will be defeat or disgrace.

There will be no disgrace because in order to have a disgrace you would have to show some grace..you would actually have to do something negative...Harper plays it safe and does not do anything negative, or positive..he's a non-starter - a non-issue with a real nice haircut and a fine suit. There will never be a defeat - you will have to have an election in order for that to happen and he will not allow that..after this prorouging action has come to an end the lawyers will find another way to prolong this not do anything politicals career. If it means to create some very creative dictatorship he will do what is instructed..and apparently shutting down the house is just that.

Here is what I do not understand - Who within the early parlimentary British system inserted this method of shut down - this prorouging thing? AND most importantly what was the original need and purpose of such a procedure? I hope our historic legalists look into this. There may be a misuse going on here. BUT with the legal council he has they can explain their way out of anything - this is what happens when lawyers run a nation. Who out there trusts a flexing legalist fully anyway?

[Oleg Bach]

That's right....and his opposition has been the Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight...again and again. I hope PM Harper is laughing his ass off.

First you have Cheney's ass up in the air ready to be kissed and now you personally bless the ass of Harper...You like him don't cha yah. You like Harper because he is the first true American senator...and you don't want to lose him....People that laugh to much or smile all the time can not be trusted... Frankly I have never seen Harper laugh...just smirk - and I always imagine him thinking when he is talking - Thinking in terms of not what would Jesus do - but what would the big boys in Montreal and Toronto want me to say - and he is well briefed - he says nothing.

[bush_cheney2004]

First you have Cheney's ass up in the air ready to be kissed and now you personally bless the ass of Harper...You like him don't cha yah. You like Harper because he is the first true American senator...

Ignatieff is the American...not Harper...said so himself in a US commencement speech.

[Oleg Bach]

Ignatieff is the American...not Harper...said so himself in a US commencement speech.

When in Rome I suppose do as the Romans do - Ignatieff is a Canadian when he is here..that's good enough. Harper really wants to be a Canadian but he knows to travel up the ranks he will have to secretly sell you his brothers and be a hot shot internationalist that will make Iggy look like a patriot.

[whowhere]

There will be no disgrace because in order to have a disgrace you would have to show some grace..you would actually have to do something negative...Harper plays it safe and does not do anything negative, or positive..he's a non-starter - a non-issue with a real nice haircut and a fine suit. There will never be a defeat - you will have to have an election in order for that to happen and he will not allow that..after this prorouging action has come to an end the lawyers will find another way to prolong this not do anything politicals career. If it means to create some very creative dictatorship he will do what is instructed..and apparently shutting down the house is just that.

Here is what I do not understand - Who within the early parlimentary British system inserted this method of shut down - this prorouging thing? AND most importantly what was the original need and purpose of such a procedure? I hope our historic legalists look into this. There may be a misuse going on here. BUT with the legal council he has they can explain their way out of anything - this is what happens when lawyers run a nation. Who out there trusts a flexing legalist fully anyway?

Then harper is strategist and he is playing his opponents accordingly.

One thing people loved about Chretian was he got surpluses, did nothing to extreme, and Canada became boring. If the Liberals truly want to unseat Harper, they will have to bring back Chretien. Chretien loves to win and even if winning is all he does would be enough for chretien. As for prorogueing, I don't see how the GG is ceremonial and symbolic one minute then is used to prop up the PM the next. It's not right. However, parliament passed a voting law setting the timetable for elections. If harper has lost the confidence, the members of parliament should be given a free vote to select the PM from the current MPs until the time for the next election. Holding Perpetual elections to drive out a majority is a waste of time if everyone knows the result will still be a minority. In anycase, Canadians elect MPs not parties. The MPs, the senate, and the Supreme Court should have the say to Harpers fate. This would ensure he is not being unfairly ganged up on for no good reason. Because the Senate and the Court is an infestation of the liberals and Conservatives alike it would be hard for Canadians to value to much of what they say or do. That would change if Canadians Had a say as the judges and Senators that would ultimately be the judge and jury of the PM.

[Oleg Bach]

That is a very Yankish post. I am surprised you did not quote the former now deceased head of the ARA - you know - Charely Heston - Moses! What if Harper did say - that's it I can no longer serve in the best interests of Canadains? What if he simply just walked away? Would the nation collapse? Would Layton bring the nation to ruin? Would Ignatieff be a total disaster domestically and abroad? What if we just let our corporations run the show and forget about that dreary grey rock town of Ottawa...what a place _ I visited there about 35 years ago and could not imagine such a place sustaining life let alone leadership.

[whowhere]

That is a very Yankish post. I am surprised you did not quote the former now deceased head of the ARA - you know - Charely Heston - Moses! What if Harper did say - that's it I can no longer serve in the best interests of Canadains? What if he simply just walked away? Would the nation collapse? Would Layton bring the nation to ruin? Would Ignatieff be a total disaster domestically and abroad? What if we just let our corporations run the show and forget about that dreary grey rock town of Ottawa...what a place _ I visited there about 35 years ago and could not imagine such a place sustaining life let alone leadership.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_political_offices_by_salary

Prime Minister of Canada: $315,462 (and $2,122 Car Allowance)

Member of the House of Commons: $157,731

This should be answer enough, money, money, money. Gets to travel/vacation the world at taxpayer expense and he gets to feather the conservative party with plum government positions. Why would Harper willingly step to $157,731 when he's making $315,462. He would have to be insane. As I said with power... From his cold dead hands.

[blueblood]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_political_offices_by_salary

Prime Minister of Canada: $315,462 (and $2,122 Car Allowance)

Member of the House of Commons: $157,731

This should be answer enough, money, money, money. Gets to travel/vacation the world at taxpayer expense and he gets to feather the conservative party with plum government positions. Why would Harper willingly step to $157,731 when he's making $315,462. He would have to be insane. As I said with power... From his cold dead hands.

That is miniscule as to what a CEO or other executive would get in the private sector. So no Harper is not in it for the money. That's peanuts compared to private sector management/business owners.

[capricorn]

In 5 years or so, Harper will probably earn 3 or 4 times what he's pulling in now.