Nationally and Globally what are our goals?

[maple_leafs182]

Nationally and Globally what are our goals?

What are we trying to achieve?

My take.

We're not working towards peace

We're not trying to stop pollution

We're not trying to solve poverty

We're not working to cure diseases

I know there is the War on terrorism, so we are trying to stop acts of terrorism and live "safer" lives.

There is a war on drugs so we are trying to prevent people from using drugs.

We're trying to save the economy.

and I guess we're trying to stop Climate Change.

The problem with the War on Terrorism is our solution to stopping terrorism is to create terrorism in other countries.

The problem with the War on Drugs is it hasn't prevented people from using drugs.

It has succeeded in creating an underground market that funds gangs and terrorist groups.

The problem to us trying to save the economy is we are using the same logic as the War on Terrorism, we're trying to solve the problem of debt by going into more debt.

The problem with climate change and a Climate treaty is, it doesn't solve the problems of pollution and fossil fuel dependency.

We are working towards becoming more socialist

We are working towards a one world government

(United Nations, European Union, G8, G20, World Trade Organization, World Health Organization, possibly a world climate treaty in the future)

We are slowly becoming more Fascist. "The debate of global warming is over", no it's not.

We are slowly losing freedoms/liberties and rights in the name of security.

Why we are doing what we are doing, I have not a clue.

"When the air that we breathe becomes air that we choke

When the marsh fever spreads from the swamps to our homes

When your home on the range has been torn down and paved and

The buffalo roam to a slaughterhouse grave

What more will it take

For us to know

This is not a test, oh no

This is cardiac arrest

Of a world too proud to admit our mistakes

Kissing the ground as well fall from grace" - Rise Against, Collapse (Post-Amerika)

Edited January 11, 2010 by maple_leafs182

[charter.rights]

Nationally and Globally what are our goals?

What are we trying to achieve?

My take.

We're not working towards peace

We're not trying to stop pollution

We're not trying to solve poverty

We're not working to cure diseases

I know there is the War on terrorism, so we are trying to stop acts of terrorism and live "safer" lives.

There is a war on drugs so we are trying to prevent people from using drugs.

We're trying to save the economy.

and I guess we're trying to stop Climate Change.

The problem with the War on Terrorism is our solution to stopping terrorism is to create terrorism in other countries.

The problem with the War on Drugs is it hasn't prevented people from using drugs.

It has succeeded in creating an underground market that funds gangs and terrorist groups.

The problem to us trying to save the economy is we are using the same logic as the War on Terrorism, we're trying to solve the problem of debt by going into more debt.

The problem with climate change and a Climate treaty is, it doesn't solve the problems of pollution and fossil fuel dependency.

We are working towards becoming more socialist

We are working towards a one world government

(United Nations, European Union, G8, G20, World Trade Organization, World Health Organization, possibly a world climate treaty in the future)

We are slowly becoming more Fascist. "The debate of global warming is over", no it's not.

We are slowly losing freedoms/liberties and rights in the name of security.

Why we are doing what we are doing, I have not a clue.

Everyone is trying to make more money in the mistaken belief that if they just had a little more, all of the other issues you mentioned would just disappear.

Western society is caught in their own myths. They are collectively delusional and think anyone who doesn't follow along as sheepishly as they do is insane.

[Michael Hardner]

We're moving to be more socialist, but we're not moving on poverty ?

How does that work ?

[maple_leafs182]

Everyone is trying to make more money in the mistaken belief that if they just had a little more, all of the other issues you mentioned would just disappear.

Western society is caught in their own myths. They are collectively delusional and think anyone who doesn't follow along as sheepishly as they do is insane.

Agreed, I believe it is because of the propaganda that the news media delivers to us on a daily bases.

"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda." - George W. Bush

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State." - Joseph Goebbels

"Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell, and also the other way round, to consider the most wretched sort of life as paradise." - Adolf Hitler

We're moving to be more socialist, but we're not moving on poverty ?

How does that work ?

In a word, Greed.

Governments just own more pieces of the economy now. We still aren't trying to solve poverty.

Idea, lets have a war on poverty, everyone seems to be down for wars these days, it's the cool thing to do.

Imagine if the US government spent that 700+ billion dollar stimulus plan on trying to solve poverty, and I don't mean through economics, I mean on things that would really help solve poverty like water purification systems for 3rd world countries.

[maple_leafs182]

Really, barely anyone replied, I thought this was a really important question.

[Michael Hardner]

Really, barely anyone replied, I thought this was a really important question.

I don't know, ml182, but because people here generally debate things point-by-point, general questions sometimes don't play well.

For example, saying that our Government is socialist, greedy, and doesn't want to help solve poverty will get the righties on here on your side. But on the other hand, we know that you believe in a New World Order, glogal corporate criminal ethos - which makes you part of the paranoid left, so the righties can't support you on that either.

You're talking about values, and such things that are nebulous and hard to debate and discuss. Who's going to say they're against pollution, poverty or war ? No one. It's the means to those goals that we can discuss, and that's where the specifics and discussion of specifics comes in.

You can learn a lot about how the world really works on MLW. The paranoid left theories aren't subscribed to by very many folks here, though, on the left- or right- side of the spectrum.

[maple_leafs182]

I don't know, ml182, but because people here generally debate things point-by-point, general questions sometimes don't play well.

For example, saying that our Government is socialist, greedy, and doesn't want to help solve poverty will get the righties on here on your side. But on the other hand, we know that you believe in a New World Order, glogal corporate criminal ethos - which makes you part of the paranoid left, so the righties can't support you on that either.

You're talking about values, and such things that are nebulous and hard to debate and discuss. Who's going to say they're against pollution, poverty or war ? No one. It's the means to those goals that we can discuss, and that's where the specifics and discussion of specifics comes in.

You can learn a lot about how the world really works on MLW. The paranoid left theories aren't subscribed to by very many folks here, though, on the left- or right- side of the spectrum.

I understand how the world "really" works,

The problem is everything we are doing is wrong.

What are we trying to prove, seriously.

Are we just trying to preserve our way of life, is that it?..I'm being serious.

The system of governance and economics we live in, we've been using it for how long?

Guess what, it's not that effective, It just creates fake problems to avoids solving real problems.

Governments and Banks aren't the solution, they are the problem.

Seatbelt and air bags are great if you get hit from the front or the back, what if you get hit from the side? why not have round/saucer cars. Why not create cars that will avoid tragedies all together before they even happen.

I see H1N1 commercials that say "wash your hands, it's the best way to avoid getting H1N1".

Why not tell the full truth and say "Proper nutrition and washing your hands are is the best way to avoid getting H1N1".

Why not due away with patents and copyright? why not let every mind in this world together on new ideas and inventions, why restrict our creative thought?

We should of learnt by now that working together is far more effective then working against each other.

We need to be more open minded and more open hearted.

There is too much hate going on in the world right now, where are all the peace advocates?

Causes without rebels.

Don't think of it as me asking a political question.

Just think of me asking you, person to person,

Globally and Nationally what do you feel our goals are?

[bush_cheney2004]

...Seatbelt and air bags are great if you get hit from the front or the back, what if you get hit from the side? why not have round/saucer cars. Why not create cars that will avoid tragedies all together before they even happen.

Because side airbags are a lot cheaper than "saucer cars"...and a lot easier to park.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKnGans-JD0

[Michael Hardner]

I understand how the world "really" works,

The problem is everything we are doing is wrong.

What are we trying to prove, seriously.

Are we just trying to preserve our way of life, is that it?..I'm being serious.

The system of governance and economics we live in, we've been using it for how long?

Guess what, it's not that effective, It just creates fake problems to avoids solving real problems.

Governments and Banks aren't the solution, they are the problem.

Seatbelt and air bags are great if you get hit from the front or the back, what if you get hit from the side? why not have round/saucer cars. Why not create cars that will avoid tragedies all together before they even happen.

I see H1N1 commercials that say "wash your hands, it's the best way to avoid getting H1N1".

Why not tell the full truth and say "Proper nutrition and washing your hands are is the best way to avoid getting H1N1".

Why not due away with patents and copyright? why not let every mind in this world together on new ideas and inventions, why restrict our creative thought?

We should of learnt by now that working together is far more effective then working against each other.

We need to be more open minded and more open hearted.

There is too much hate going on in the world right now, where are all the peace advocates?

Causes without rebels.

Don't think of it as me asking a political question.

Just think of me asking you, person to person,

Globally and Nationally what do you feel our goals are?

You're getting a little more specific here, but it's still somewhat of a lament for our basic human nature. I think our goals are the pursuit of individual happiness.

[maple_leafs182]

You're getting a little more specific here, but it's still somewhat of a lament for our basic human nature. I think our goals are the pursuit of individual happiness.

I don't think that is our goal but if so, then collectively how are we trying to achieve this?

In order to obtain individual happiness should we not work on achieving global peace for we are a product of our environment. If the world is at war then we are at war with ourselves.

Honestly, I think we are on a path towards World War 3 and nobody even cares. Can anyone prove me wrong that we are not headed at least in the direction of WW3?

Edited January 14, 2010 by maple_leafs182

[Michael Hardner]

I don't think that is our goal but if so, then collectively how are we trying to achieve this?

By creating a healthy society, with a strong economy that allows people to achieve their potential.

In order to obtain individual happiness should we not work on achieving global peace for we are a product of our environment. If the world is at war then we are at war with ourselves.

Honestly, I think we are on a path towards World War 3 and nobody even cares. Can anyone prove me wrong that we are not headed at least in the direction of WW3?

We work at global peace the best way we can - through diplomacy and constructive engagement with other nations. War happens, unfortunately, but does it happen more than in the past ? It's hard to measure such things but I would say not.

How can you say we're on a path towards world war three, when the cold war has ended, and fully 2/3 of the world is now positively engaged ?

[maple_leafs182]

By creating a healthy society, with a strong economy that allows people to achieve their potential.

I'll agree that we need a healthy society but our society at its current state is far from healthy, if anything it already has cancer and it is on the verge of having a heart attack.

As for a strong economy, I don't agree it is necessary to have in order to have a healthy society. Only because I don't believe an economy is needed to have a healthy society.

If someone has a strong economy(Canada) then there must be a weak economy(Iceland) for the strong economy to be compared to, to be considered a strong economy.

Why should the people with the weak economy have to suffer?

How about defaults on mortgages, right now we kick families out of their houses to live on the streets. How is this in any shape of form solving poverty, if anything it creates more poverty and more problems associated with poverty. I just saw on BNN today that said the US is expecting record defaults this year, so we'll kick more families on the streets.

If our system involves kicking people out of their homes and forces them onto the streets, maybe its time for a new system, maybe a system that is a little closer to the heart.

We work at global peace the best way we can - through diplomacy and constructive engagement with other nations. War happens, unfortunately, but does it happen more than in the past ? It's hard to measure such things but I would say not.

How can you say we're on a path towards world war three, when the cold war has ended, and fully 2/3 of the world is now positively engaged ?

The US has started four since 2000 and it seems like they would love to start a fifth with Iran.

I would say we are on an increase or at least an increase for countries on this side of the pond.

I believe if the US goes to war with Iran, it will quickly turn into world war 3. I don't think the Persians will go down without a fight.

[bush_cheney2004]

The US has started four since 2000 and it seems like they would love to start a fifth with Iran.

I would say we are on an increase or at least an increase for countries on this side of the pond.

Four? If you go back to 1999...it would be five!

I believe if the US goes to war with Iran, it will quickly turn into world war 3. I don't think the Persians will go down without a fight.

Iran went down with a fight against Iraq.

[maple_leafs182]

Four? If you go back to 1999...it would be five!

Iran went down with a fight against Iraq.

The United States supported Iraq during the Iran–Iraq War as a counterbalance to post-revolutionary Iran. This support included several billion dollars worth of economic aid, the sale of dual-use technology, non-U.S. origin weaponry, military intelligence, Special Operations training, and direct involvement in warfare against Iran.

Wiki

They got America to help them, yes, they helped Saddam Hussein.

"Current events form future trends" -Gerald Celente

Eventually terrorists will achieve a successful attack in America, it's only a matter of time.

Not trying to be a downer or anything but you can't go bombing countries without making people mad.

These foreign policies are not making us safer.

What if it's not just one, what if it's two or three, maybe not 9/11 scale but attacks none the less.

What will America do to tighten security and in what would they do in retaliation? Would Canada follow? What if there is an attack in Canada?

Look, I'm just trying to keep things real, we act like there won't ever be any consequences to our actions.

These foreign policies need to change or we will be headed to WW3.

Wars solve nothing, the stubborn hearts remain the same.

[bush_cheney2004]

Eventually terrorists will achieve a successful attack in America, it's only a matter of time.

Not trying to be a downer or anything but you can't go bombing countries without making people mad.

No news there...America has been subjected to terrorist attacks since at least the Caroline Affair in 1837.

These foreign policies are not making us safer.

You are more likely to die in Canada...better check your domestic policies too.

What if it's not just one, what if it's two or three, maybe not 9/11 scale but attacks none the less.

What will America do to tighten security and in what would they do in retaliation? Would Canada follow? What if there is an attack in Canada?

Are you afraid? Afraid of what? Not being able to buy cheap cigs and gas acroos the border?

Look, I'm just trying to keep things real, we act like there won't ever be any consequences to our actions.

These foreign policies need to change or we will be headed to WW3.

People like you said the same thing about Korea, Vietnam, Middle East, Gulf War, etc. You have zero credibiltity with a constant Chicken Little mantra.... "The Sky is Falling!"

Wars solve nothing, the stubborn hearts remain the same.

Wars solve a lot of problems....and create others.

[maple_leafs182]

No news there...America has been subjected to terrorist attacks since at least the Caroline Affair in 1837.

I mean from "Al Qaeda", more frequent.

Are you afraid? Afraid of what? Not being able to buy cheap cigs and gas acroos the border?

I'm not afraid, all I'm saying is that these foreign policies are not making us safer, they make it more likely that there will be a terrorist attack. Seems counter productive in winning the War on Terrorism.

People like you said the same thing about Korea, Vietnam, Middle East, Gulf War, etc. You have zero credibiltity with a constant Chicken Little mantra.... "The Sky is Falling!"

the sky inst falling, it's just no longer blue.

Wars solve a lot of problems....and create others.

At what cost? 1 million lives?

Do you think this war on Terrorism solved any problems or is solving any problems, personally I don't think so.

[bush_cheney2004]

I mean from "Al Qaeda", more frequent.

Sure...you seem to have a very short time horizon on this issue. There was a world (with terrorism) before Al Qaeda.

I'm not afraid, all I'm saying is that these foreign policies are not making us safer, they make it more likely that there will be a terrorist attack. Seems counter productive in winning the War on Terrorism.

Then there shall be more attacks, and the insurance actuaries will need to adjust their casualty and property loss profile tables. If you think nations are going to dramatically tame existing foreign policies because of terrorism, then you are afraid. There will always be "terrorism"....get use to it.

the sky inst falling, it's just no longer blue.

And why is this a problem? If you want rainbows....it takes rain.

At what cost? 1 million lives?

At whatever the cost may be. "We" have paid it in the past. Why would the future be any different?

Do you think this war on Terrorism solved any problems or is solving any problems, personally I don't think so.

What kind of problem are you trying to solve? You live and thrive in the very system that is under attack.

[Oleg Bach]

There is socialism that moves towards ridding the world of poverty. Then if you remember there is National Socialism..that old German thing - You know where one socialist lives in a twenty bedroom house with two pools and a bowling alley - while a million other socialist live in one bed room eating warmed over meatless pasta. A good example of this socialism are the Clintons..they love luxury but expect the whole planet to live in poverty while they sing sweat encouragement to the have nots.

[maple_leafs182]

Sure...you seem to have a very short time horizon on this issue. There was a world (with terrorism) before Al Qaeda.

Then there shall be more attacks, and the insurance actuaries will need to adjust their casualty and property loss profile tables. If you think nations are going to dramatically tame existing foreign policies because of terrorism, then you are afraid. There will always be "terrorism"....get use to it.

Well I really can't do anything to stop terrorist attacks that happened in the past, I can only attempt to stop future ones from occurring.

We have to look at what motivates a terrorist to be a terrorist.

It's because we are over there bombing and killing.

People get angry when they lose family or friends.

These foreign policies are increasing the likely hood of a terrorist attack occurring.

There does not always have to be terrorism, that is a myth

There will continue to be terrorism as long as we keep working against each other instead of with each other.

countries need to change there foreign policies, they are based on flawed ideologies.

Why continue these wars, for intimidating reasons, revenge?

maybe we are just blinded by rage.

And why is this a problem? If you want rainbows....it takes rain.

Let it rain

At whatever the cost may be. "We" have paid it in the past. Why would the future be any different?

I dunno, we could maybe learn from our mistakes.

But this world is to proud to admit any of its mistakes so i guess we can't really learn from our mistakes if we don't know what they are.

What kind of problem are you trying to solve? You live and thrive in the very system that is under attack.

The problem that every aspect of our society/life is dictated by a few at the top.

What system and under attack by who?