Canadian politicians - the culture killer

[bjre]

Just know from TV Ontario is try to make new legislation for Chinese Traditional Medicine.

Again, they can not allow anyone else provide cheaper health solution that prevent them from being the only one who can take money for health.

It has been proved again and again, only western politicians are culture killers.

Why, it is because democracy, democracy make everyone fight for their own interest only, don't think of others. That is how democracy works.

The dominate hospital system want take all the money from market and raise the price and take more and more from the tax you will pay.

They want to remove all competitors.

That is the reason they want this legislation.

[Guest TrueMetis]

If you can give me some evidence these cures work I'll agree with you. Until then you're full of crap.

[bjre]

If you can give me some evidence these cures work I'll agree with you. Until then you're full of crap.

I heard of that from the Mandarin edition news of OMNI 2 in 5pm Ontario, it will on OMNI2 again tomorrow morning 8:00am if you can understand it. I did not find any English news cover on that. I think those who push this legislation don't want let people know their ugly actions.

[Guest TrueMetis]

I heard of that from the Mandarin edition news of OMNI 2 in 5pm Ontario, it will on OMNI2 again tomorrow morning 8:00am if you can understand it. I did not find any English news cover on that. I think those who push this legislation don't want let people know their ugly actions.

So you can't give me any proof. Ok then.

[eyeball]

It has been proved again and again, only western politicians are culture killers.

Why, it is because democracy, democracy make everyone fight for their own interest only, don't think of others. That is how democracy works.

I understand you're new to Canada. I was born here 50 odd years ago and as far as I'm concerned Canada is a democracy of sorts but only in a very primitive way. We're still using the same basic system to vote and governance that we've had since the horse and buggy era. Its advanced state of senescence is apparent in its increasing opacity and inability and unwillingness respond to what its citizens tell it.

What's really sad is that more of its citizens seem to think this is a good thing. I guess most of them are getting kind of old and set in their ways too.

[bjre]

I understand you're new to Canada. I was born here 50 odd years ago and as far as I'm concerned Canada is a democracy of sorts but only in a very primitive way. We're still using the same basic system to vote and governance that we've had since the horse and buggy era. Its advanced state of senescence is apparent in its increasing opacity and inability and unwillingness respond to what its citizens tell it.

What's really sad is that more of its citizens seem to think this is a good thing. I guess most of them are getting kind of old and set in their ways too.

Although now is no longer the time a person have different idea will be burned like Giordano Bruno. There is not too much difference that most people have no ability to distinguish which is the truth, and which are just lies or political faith similar with religion beliefs. Just like most people don't think the stars we see at night are of identical nature as the sun in Giordano Bruno's time. That gives those huge interest groups too large space to control public thinking by media.

[Gabriel]

Health Canada has been regulating "Chinese medicine" for years. It's under the responsibility of the Natural Health Product Directorate. In order to legally sell a product that falls under the umbrella of traditional medicine (which is primarily "Chinese medicine"), a producer/manufacturer must apply for a license from NHPD, which involves submitting data about the product, claims made to its purposes, etc.

bjre - I assume you're opposed to regulation of this industry. I'm inclined to agree with you. I don't think we need big brother in this sphere of our lives. Generally speaking, "Chinese medicine" is largely fantasy. I see government involvement in this sphere as similar to government regulation of psychics. Can you imagine is there was some federal governing body that oversaw the psychic industry? Talk about silliness.

I also think you're wrong to assume that the motivations behind regulating this industry are to maximize profits for hospitals. You're confusing too many things, here. Regulation of traditional medicine (although largely useless) doesn't enhance revenues for hospitals, which are on the public dime, anyways. What you're implying doesn't make any sense.

At the end of the day, without strict enforcement of these regulations, you can still go to your local China-town and buy whatever it is you buy to get a natural erection - some sort of seaweed or exotic shellfish? :-)

[Elephant_Crank]

People may find a minority government in Canada dysfunctional, heated, and often unproductive. However, we must also consider the fact that the majority is not fully in charge. We must take the time to consider the more negative effects of a "majority rule" and the more beneficial effects of a minority. In the current situation, there is no single political ideology or group that is driving all of the decisions in this country. To the people who are defined by an exact political ideal, this is a good thing. For most Canadians, in fact, this is a good thing. Even though the liberals may be angry at the lack of movement on issues that they consider volatile, so are the conservatives and socialists. The truth is: nothing in this current House Of Commons is moving ahead without a thorough debate and an almost complete consensus beforehand. This means that many bills are not being passed into law until leftists, right-wingers, and socialists are all coming to a somewhat mutual agreement. This unique situation should be relished by Canadians, rather than loathed. The level of political equality in this country is greater than it's ever been before.

Politics Of Change

Edited December 4, 2009 by Elephant_Crank

[Shwa]

Why, it is because democracy, democracy make everyone fight for their own interest only, don't think of others. That is how democracy works.

Doesn't this apply to the Traditional Chinese Medicine special interest group as well seeing that they only had news reports on OMNI and in Chinese? If the TCM lobby were smart, don't you think they would make their case on CTV or CBC news in English?

I have nothing to say about the merits of TCM, some of it is good, some of it isn't. But if you want something that is important to you, sooner or later you will have to address the issue in a language in which most people can understand.

[M.Dancer]

Well it's not like we allow african witch doctors to practice medicine, or haitian voodoo priests to practice psyghiatry so the practioners of chinese fakery should not feel singled out.

WQe even make the suppliers of canadian herbal hogwash follow the rules...

[Michael Hardner]

I understand you're new to Canada. I was born here 50 odd years ago and as far as I'm concerned Canada is a democracy of sorts but only in a very primitive way. We're still using the same basic system to vote and governance that we've had since the horse and buggy era. Its advanced state of senescence is apparent in its increasing opacity and inability and unwillingness respond to what its citizens tell it.

Voting hasn't changed since the time of Greek democracy. Speech was invented hundreds of thousands of years ago. Remind me again - why exactly does our voting systems need to change ?

Governance has changed markedly since 1967, reflecting the changes in society as a whole.

What's really sad is that more of its citizens seem to think this is a good thing. I guess most of them are getting kind of old and set in their ways too.

I have blogged extensively about the need to change governance, but my suggestions don't represent anything like a revolutionary "let's overturn the apple cart, or better yet set it on fire and see what happens approach".

You're talking about PR again, a system that will effectively make it impossible for conservatives to gain power. I have gone as far as to get proponents of PR to acknowledge that that would be a great thing. Let's do something REALLY modern and just install a dictatorship, that will distribute the promised jet packs to the people once they're safely ensconced.

[Michael Hardner]

And what is this thread about anyway ?

I went to Google news and searched for "Ontario chinese medicine" and got nothing.

http://news.google.ca/news/search?pz=1&cf=all&ned=ca&hl=en&q=ontario+chinese+medicine

Did anything really happen in the real world, or is this just a phantom event in bjre's mind ?

There are no links on this thread.

[eyeball]

People may find a minority government in Canada dysfunctional, heated, and often unproductive. However, we must also consider the fact that the majority is not fully in charge. We must take the time to consider the more negative effects of a "majority rule" and the more beneficial effects of a minority. In the current situation, there is no single political ideology or group that is driving all of the decisions in this country. To the people who are defined by an exact political ideal, this is a good thing. For most Canadians, in fact, this is a good thing. Even though the liberals may be angry at the lack of movement on issues that they consider volatile, so are the conservatives and socialists. The truth is: nothing in this current House Of Commons is moving ahead without a thorough debate and an almost complete consensus beforehand. This means that many bills are not being passed into law until leftists, right-wingers, and socialists are all coming to a somewhat mutual agreement. This unique situation should be relished by Canadians, rather than loathed. The level of political equality in this country is greater than it's ever been before.

Politics Of Change

This is all quite true. Long live minority governments - better yet lets try a coalition on for size.

[bjre]

And what is this thread about anyway ?

I went to Google news and searched for "Ontario chinese medicine" and got nothing.

http://news.google.ca/news/search?pz=1&cf=all&ned=ca&hl=en&q=ontario+chinese+medicine

Did anything really happen in the real world, or is this just a phantom event in bjre's mind ?

There are no links on this thread.

http://ontario.omninews.ca/index.php?language=3

Click "Mandarin Omni News -Dec 03 09", started at about 8 minute 27 seconds, you need a translator who can say Mandarin to help you if you plan to watch it.

This video will not be there for very long time before it will be replaced by others newer content.

[whowhere]

Just know from TV Ontario is try to make new legislation for Chinese Traditional Medicine.

Again, they can not allow anyone else provide cheaper health solution that prevent them from being the only one who can take money for health.

It has been proved again and again, only western politicians are culture killers.

Why, it is because democracy, democracy make everyone fight for their own interest only, don't think of others. That is how democracy works.

The dominate hospital system want take all the money from market and raise the price and take more and more from the tax you will pay.

They want to remove all competitors.

That is the reason they want this legislation.

The Doctors are a powerful Lobby and essentially they have a licensed to Bill (ProvincialHip) There are no restrictions to prevent someone from going to the doctor weekly and the taxpayers have to pay for this. Don't believe for a second the College of Physicians and the Doctors in General are going to share their Cash cow. We are led to believe we have a doctor shortage and the wait times outrages, perhaps...Health Canada has a process: if chinese medicine is able to scientifically be proven to treat a condition that get at it prove it to them and I am sure you will start to see the provincialhip dollars.

[Michael Hardner]

The Doctors are a powerful Lobby and essentially they have a licensed to Bill (ProvincialHip) There are no restrictions to prevent someone from going to the doctor weekly and the taxpayers have to pay for this. Don't believe for a second the College of Physicians and the Doctors in General are going to share their Cash cow. We are led to believe we have a doctor shortage and the wait times outrages, perhaps...Health Canada has a process: if chinese medicine is able to scientifically be proven to treat a condition that get at it prove it to them and I am sure you will start to see the provincialhip dollars.

What kind of restrictions are you looking for ? There are quite a few legitimate reasons why someone would go to the doctor weekly.

What does this mean ?

We are led to believe we have a doctor shortage and the wait times outrages, perhaps...Health Canada has a process:

And this ?

if chinese medicine is able to scientifically be proven to treat a condition that get at it prove it to them and I am sure you will start to see the provincialhip dollars.

[whowhere]

What kind of restrictions are you looking for ? There are quite a few legitimate reasons why someone would go to the doctor weekly.

Perhaps a deductible with max on it.

What does this mean ?

We are led to believe we have a doctor shortage and the wait times outrages, perhaps...Health Canada has a process:

Canada's doctors are one big Union and they work to rule like all unions.

And this ?

if chinese medicine is able to scientifically be proven to treat a condition that get at it prove it to them and I am sure you will start to see the provincialhip dollars.

Whenever a drug is approved by health Canada they have to convince health Canada through their process. If chinese medical treatment is valid they should have the opportunity to convince health Canada it works.

[M.Dancer]

Whenever a drug is approved by health Canada they have to convince health Canada through their process. If chinese medical treatment is valid they should have the opportunity to convince health Canada it works.

Problem is Chinese medice isn't a drug (or even lots of drugs), it is a religion that practices sympathetic magic. Their belief is much like the medieval notion of humours,

( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_medicine )

they believe that the life essence or chi must be balanced

in order to be healthy and sickness originates from form either too much yin or too much yang. Cures usually tajke the form of eating something disgusting and if you are good looking, being felt up.

[whowhere]

Problem is Chinese medice isn't a drug (or even lots of drugs), it is a religion that practices sympathetic magic. Their belief is much like the medieval notion of humours,

( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_medicine )

they believe that the life essence or chi must be balanced

in order to be healthy and sickness originates from form either too much yin or too much yang. Cures usually tajke the form of eating something disgusting and if you are good looking, being felt up.

Science has proven the body is electrical currents moving about. Call it chi or whatever, if the chinese have a different way of restoring health and its proven to work they should have an opportunity to scientifically prove it works. Afterwhich, the people can choose this form of treatment or not. Perhaps the problem is the difference between Registered Massage therapists versus massage parlours. The Area requires regulation and scrutiny.

[Gabriel]

Science has proven the body is electrical currents moving about. Call it chi or whatever, if the chinese have a different way of restoring health and its proven to work they should have an opportunity to scientifically prove it works. Afterwhich, the people can choose this form of treatment or not. Perhaps the problem is the difference between Registered Massage therapists versus massage parlours. The Area requires regulation and scrutiny.

Sorry, but you've no idea what you're talking about. Suggesting that the methods through which traditional Chinese medicine maps out the body's components are representative of reality is simply not true. Please do not suggest that traditional Chinese medicine is some sort of alternative to our understanding of the electrical nerve impulses (or any other electrical idea). It is all hocus pocus voodoo magic. Take a look at the pharmacopoeia and see for yourself - it's mostly garbage. I can assure you you're getting into things you don't understand. Again, please don't suggest that the concept of the Chi is somehow rooted in truth via modern science's understanding of electrical nerve impulses. It's as real as astrology.

You should also be aware that any medical treatment with utility can subject itself to peer review after studies are conducted. If there are medical treatments in traditional Chinese medicine that are worthwhile, they can prove themselves through research and review. Nobody is excluded from the scientific community.

[bjre]

Sorry, but you've no idea what you're talking about. Suggesting that the methods through which traditional Chinese medicine maps out the body's components are representative of reality is simply not true. Please do not suggest that traditional Chinese medicine is some sort of alternative to our understanding of the electrical nerve impulses (or any other electrical idea). It is all hocus pocus voodoo magic. Take a look at the pharmacopoeia and see for yourself - it's mostly garbage. I can assure you you're getting into things you don't understand. Again, please don't suggest that the concept of the Chi is somehow rooted in truth via modern science's understanding of electrical nerve impulses. It's as real as astrology.

You should also be aware that any medical treatment with utility can subject itself to peer review after studies are conducted. If there are medical treatments in traditional Chinese medicine that are worthwhile, they can prove themselves through research and review. Nobody is excluded from the scientific community.

So how you can prove western medicine are more "scientific", what is the difference between it and voodoo magic or garbage? If it is so scientific, why new medicine still need to pass a lot of tests?

Lots of traditional Chinese medicine do passed huge amount of tests long before modern western medicine exist.

It is still curing lots of Chinese in China nowadays more than the population of Canada.

[bjre]

Problem is Chinese medice isn't a drug (or even lots of drugs), it is a religion that practices sympathetic magic. Their belief is much like the medieval notion of humours,

( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_medicine )

they believe that the life essence or chi must be balanced

in order to be healthy and sickness originates from form either too much yin or too much yang. Cures usually tajke the form of eating something disgusting and if you are good looking, being felt up.

What is the difference between your religion and your faith of western medicine? Did you ever try to prove a western medicine by yourself before use it?

Edited December 4, 2009 by bjre

[Gabriel]

So how you can prove western medicine are more "scientific", what is the difference between it and voodoo magic or garbage? If it is so scientific, why new medicine still need to pass a lot of tests?

Lots of traditional Chinese medicine do passed huge amount of tests long before modern western medicine exist.

It is still curing lots of Chinese in China nowadays more than the population of Canada.

Hi bjre,

In all seriousness, you have no idea what you're talking about. Your question, 'why new medicine still need to pass a lot of tests?' illustrates that you have no concept of what science is. If you're interested, do some research regarding the philosophy of science and the scientific method. Perhaps that will answer your question. Science is all about testing, and ongoing reviews and research as new information is learned.

Traditional Chinese medicine DOES NOT subscribe to the scientific method. Please do no try to suggest that scientific philosophy is somehow fundamental to traditional Chinese medicine. I know this is a sensitive subject for you (I'm about 99.9% sure you're of Chinese origin), but I'm telling you the truth. Perhaps there are useful treatments for certain conditions/illnesses within traditional Chinese medicine. For those treatments that ARE useful, they can prove themselves in the scientific community and obtain legitimacy. Nobody is excluded from this community - if there are useful treatments out there, we want them!

Spare me your hyperbolic statements that traditional Chinese medicine is somehow helping people more than modern medicine.

[Gabriel]

What is the difference between your religion and your faith of western medicine? Did you ever try to prove a western medicine by yourself before use it?

This statement just further illustrates that you don't know what science really is. To compare science or modern medicine to 'religion' is absurd.

[bjre]

Well it's not like we allow african witch doctors to practice medicine, or haitian voodoo priests to practice psyghiatry so the practioners of chinese fakery should not feel singled out.

WQe even make the suppliers of canadian herbal hogwash follow the rules...

I think it is not bad idea to allow African witch doctors to practice medicine, if anyone is willing to go, let them go, if they make things worse, sue them. Need not to support them with tax.

And let all doctors from all nations practice medicine, sue them when they cause trouble.

And the very important is sue Health Canada if they made mistake, currently it is impossible because they are too strong, even when people die on bed in hospital, no one take charge. (Medical errors killing up to 24,000 Canadians a year, http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2004/06/09/med_errors040609.html) Health Canada is the place where more than 5 thousand dollars goes from each Canadian each year. Just like telecommunication is very expansive and has very bad quality in Africa, you pay a lot does not necessary mean you get good service. The reason is they have no competitors. That is the reason for all poor services in Canada. They have power who can make laws to ensure they can dominate the market and don't let any others enter the market. Sometimes I see it similar with a godfather without a gun.

Edited December 4, 2009 by bjre