Swiss Move to Stop Radicle Islam!

[wulf42]

If Canada is smart we will follow suit,nothing wrong with practicing your religion but you have to draw a line somewhere!!

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/11/29/swiss-minarets.html#socialcomments-submit

[Michael Hardner]

If Canada is smart we will follow suit,nothing wrong with practicing your religion but you have to draw a line somewhere!!

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/11/29/swiss-minarets.html#socialcomments-submit

Such an action would do nothing but provoke a Charter challenge, which would rightfully be lost.

Swiss Muslims say the recent construction of Sikh temples and Serbian Orthodox churches is proof that Islam is being singled out for discrimination.

Hopefully, no politician will try grandstanding in this way soon.

[wulf42]

Such an action would do nothing but provoke a Charter challenge, which would rightfully be lost.

Hopefully, no politician will try grandstanding in this way soon.

Your probably right in Canada we would do nothing, personally i say hats off to the Swiss for protecting their country and their culture! What is happening in Britain should be a wake up call for everybody... Radicles stand on the street corners threatening Englanders with their plans for Sharia Law and violence.

Edited November 29, 2009 by wulf42

[Michael Hardner]

Your probably right in Canada we would do nothing, personally i say hats off to the Swiss for protecting their country and their culture! What is happening in Britain should be a wake up call for everybody... Radicles stand on the street corners threatening Englanders with their plans for Sharia Law and violence.

Sigh... another post, another bit of hyperbole. Can we PLEASE have a CITE that describes a situation where England allows this to happen. Where they allow RADICALS to stand on the street and threaten people ?

Don't provide a cite of an isolated incident where an unstable individual threatened somebody, as you and I both knows it means nothing.

[wulf42]

Sigh... another post, another bit of hyperbole. Can we PLEASE have a CITE that describes a situation where England allows this to happen. Where they allow RADICALS to stand on the street and threaten people ?

Don't provide a cite of an isolated incident where an unstable individual threatened somebody, as you and I both knows it means nothing.

You ask for and i will provide, these guys are making threats right out in the open.. see for yourself!

http://eye-on-the-world.blogspot.com/2009/11/cnn-report-spreading-islam-in-britain.html

Edited November 30, 2009 by wulf42

[Michael Hardner]

You ask for and i will provide, these guys are making threats right out in the open.. see for yourself!

http://eye-on-the-world.blogspot.com/2009/11/cnn-report-spreading-islam-in-britain.html

Wulf,

This was nowhere in the video:

Radicles stand on the street corners threatening Englanders with their plans for Sharia Law and violence.

I want that 4 minutes of my life back please.

[wulf42]

Wulf,

This was nowhere in the video:

Radicles stand on the street corners threatening Englanders with their plans for Sharia Law and violence.

I want that 4 minutes of my life back please.

Your kidding right?? you didn t see the part about getting rid of the Queen if she didn't convert to Sharia law? you didn t see those guys holding the signs up on British streets? you didn t see their leader threaten to eventually use violence to achieve their goals?? Okay you must have been looking at another video i guess freedom of rights is great but you have to draw a line somewhere but hey try this.

http://www.france24.com/en/20091120-english-defence-league-protest-islamist-extremist-kate-williams

Edited November 30, 2009 by wulf42

[Michael Hardner]

Your kidding right?? you didn t see the part about getting rid of the Queen if she didn't convert to Sharia law? you didn t see those guys holding the signs up on British streets? you didn t see their leader threaten to eventually use violence to achieve their goals?? Okay you must have been looking at another video i guess freedom of rights is great but you have to draw a line somewhere but hey try this.

http://www.france24.com/en/20091120-english-defence-league-protest-islamist-extremist-kate-williams

I saw a bunch of people holding up signs saying "Islam will dominate" and so on. I didn't see anybody threaten anyone on any street corner.

I have to say, Wulf, that these wild goose chases are starting to grate on me. You have another link for me now because the FIRST link had no examples of people threatening people on the street as you alleged.

Are you going to be more careful in your claims from now on ? Are you going to retract them when you're wrong ? Would you mind if I documented your claims moving forward for my own benefit, so I can have a record for how many of these wild choose chases I go on ?

That way, somebody coming to the website and reading a thread like this can get some context, such as "This is the XYZth claim [with links] that you've made that went nowhere."

I do enjoy discussing these issues, but you're loading the dice so that I can never win a point.

[JB Globe]

How does banning an architectural element commonplace in all kinds of Islamic places of worship (be they liberal or conservative) help "stop radical Islam"?

I don't get it, connect the dots for me.

[wulf42]

How does banning an architectural element commonplace in all kinds of Islamic places of worship (be they liberal or conservative) help "stop radical Islam"?

I don't get it, connect the dots for me.

Well er ah read the article................Its the Swiss Government decision not mine, you know that right?

[wulf42]

I saw a bunch of people holding up signs saying "Islam will dominate" and so on. I didn't see anybody threaten anyone on any street corner.

I have to say, Wulf, that these wild goose chases are starting to grate on me. You have another link for me now because the FIRST link had no examples of people threatening people on the street as you alleged.

Are you going to be more careful in your claims from now on ? Are you going to retract them when you're wrong ? Would you mind if I documented your claims moving forward for my own benefit, so I can have a record for how many of these wild choose chases I go on ?

That way, somebody coming to the website and reading a thread like this can get some context, such as "This is the XYZth claim [with links] that you've made that went nowhere."

I do enjoy discussing these issues, but you're loading the dice so that I can never win a point.

It is well documented how radicle Islam is a threat! I could go on forever posting article's from CNN and even the CSIS has stated the danger exist's! It's not my intention loading the dice as you say i post these articles simply as back up to what i am saying yet people look at them and say "so they don t seem like a threat" I can't get my head around that...........those guy's in that video are not just protesters they are Jihadist's how long until you think they start blowing up targets? Heck in Canada they just caught those Toronto 18 idiots planning to blow up buses in T.O.! Michael we may disagree on things but i truly believe Canada and the most of Europe is under attack by radicle Islamic terrorist's and many see it happening.

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=954cb8ed-17ea-4aec-b178-23899c92122d&k=19039

Edited November 30, 2009 by wulf42

[Michael Hardner]

It is well documented how radicle Islam is a threat! I could go on forever posting article's from CNN and even the CSIS has stated the danger exist's! It's not my intention loading the dice as you say i post these articles simply as back up to what i am saying yet people look at them and say "so they don t seem like a threat" I can't get my head around that...........those guy's in that video are not just protesters they are Jihadist's how long until you think they start blowing up targets? Heck in Canada they just caught those Toronto 18 idiots planning to blow up buses in T.O.! Michael we may disagree on things but i truly believe Canada and the most of Europe is under attack by radicle Islamic terrorist's and many see it happening.

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=954cb8ed-17ea-4aec-b178-23899c92122d&k=19039

Radical Islam (i.e. terrorism) is clearly a threat and no one seriously disputes that. People who commit to causing violence, and who threaten are by definition a threat.

I know you believe these things, Wulf, but there are different reasons to talk about them here on MLW. One reason is to vent, and to complain about it - which I empathize with. Another reason is to discuss reasoned responses and policy changes. This second reason is the one I'm more interested in, and the reason that I get involved in these threads when the reasons they're posted starts to get fuzzy.

[JB Globe]

Well er ah read the article................Its the Swiss Government decision not mine, you know that right?

I did read the article, it doesn't answer my question: how does banning an architectural element common in the religious buildings of a specific religion do anything to combat radicalism in that religion?

I asked you because I figured since you posted the article, and you support the ban, you might know something about how this will affect change in society.

Did I figure wrong?

[DogOnPorch]

Perhaps a violent riot is needed in Switzerland to underline the peaceful nature of Islam.

[DogOnPorch]

Radicle??

[wulf42]

I did read the article, it doesn't answer my question: how does banning an architectural element common in the religious buildings of a specific religion do anything to combat radicalism in that religion?

I asked you because I figured since you posted the article, and you support the ban, you might know something about how this will affect change in society.

Did I figure wrong?

No you are right i support the Swiss completely! they have sent a powerful message to the Muslims that they have a right to their religion but they will only allow so much!

My question is if Islam is so peaceful then why are they worried about Muslim extremism backlash because of the vote...what does that tell you about this religion?

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/swiss-risk-muslim-backlash-after-voting-to-ban-minarets-1958559.html

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125959880244169871.html?mod=rss_Today's_Most_Popular

Edited December 1, 2009 by wulf42

[wulf42]

oop's ...double post

Edited December 1, 2009 by wulf42

[Michael Hardner]

No you are right i support the Swiss completely! they have sent a powerful message to the Muslims that they have a right to their religion but they will only allow so much!

My question is if Islam is so peaceful then why are they worried about Muslim extremism backlash because of the vote...what does that tell you about this religion?

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/swiss-risk-muslim-backlash-after-voting-to-ban-minarets-1958559.html

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125959880244169871.html?mod=rss_Today's_Most_Popular

This is a classic in reverse logic: "if the religion is so peaceful then why are we worried about it"

In other words, when we worry irrationally about something, then it's their fault !

[Guest American Woman]

How does banning an architectural element commonplace in all kinds of Islamic places of worship (be they liberal or conservative) help "stop radical Islam"?

I don't get it, connect the dots for me.

Supporters of the ban claim that allowing minarets would represent the growth of an ideology and the Islamic legal system Shariah, which they claim are incompatible with Swiss democracy.

The article does seem indicate that those who support the ban feel as if they are helping to stop, ie: not allow a "growth of ...," radical Islam/Shariah law, or probably more correctly at least stop further representation of it.

I'm frankly surprised that Switzerland has passed such a ban. It's also interesting to note that Polls conducted before the referendum showed that only 37 per cent of voters support the ban on new minarets.

Edited December 1, 2009 by American Woman

[Peter F]

I'll Ask for you JB...

how does banning an architectural element common in the religious buildings of a specific religion do anything to combat radicalism in that religion?

[Guest American Woman]

I'll Ask for you JB...

how does banning an architectural element common in the religious buildings of a specific religion do anything to combat radicalism in that religion?

Once again. Supporters of the ban apparently believe that, by not allowing the growth of what they see as symbols of Islamic Sharia law, that without more visible signs of radical Islam/Sharia law, they are helping to combat it; ie: helping to stop the growth of at least the symbols. Perhaps they feel without the symbols to inspire, it may help combat it. Perhaps they feel that by placing such bans, they may discourage those who would want to attempt to spread it in Switzerland.

Whether it will actually do anything to help stop it or not is not really the issue; it's how those who support and passed the ban perceive it. So in a sense, the ban is a "move" to "stop radical Islam." I have to agree that there is truth to that statement. I'm surprised at how little discussion there is, how few comments there are, regarding Switzerland passing the ban.

Edited December 1, 2009 by American Woman

[Peter F]

Once again. Supporters of the ban apparently believe that, by not allowing the growth of what they see as symbols of Islamic Sharia law, that without more visible signs of radical Islam/Sharia law, they are helping to combat it; ie: helping to stop the growth of at least the symbols. Perhaps they feel without the symbols to inspire, it may help combat it. Perhaps they feel that by placing such bans, they may discourage those who would want to attempt to spread it in Switzerland.

Whether it will actually do anything to help stop it or not is not really the issue; it's how those who support and passed the ban perceive it. So in a sense, the ban is a "move" to "stop radical Islam." I have to agree that there is truth to that statement. I'm surprised at how little discussion there is, how few comments there are, regarding Switzerland passing the ban.

Well, if they feel banning minarets will somehow combat sharia law and mulsim fundementalists, then I guess thats what they feel.

I feel they are idiots.

[Guest American Woman]

Well, if they feel banning minarets will somehow combat sharia law and mulsim fundementalists, then I guess thats what they feel.

I feel they are idiots.

And I agree with you. As I said, I'm very surprised Switzerland passed such a ban, especially in light of the fact that the majority of the Swiss voters evidently don't support it.

I do think it shows, however, that there continues to be a strong faction growing within Europe that is concerned about the growth of radical Islam within their nations.

[naomiglover]

Your probably right in Canada we would do nothing, personally i say hats off to the Swiss for protecting their country and their culture! What is happening in Britain should be a wake up call for everybody... Radicles stand on the street corners threatening Englanders with their plans for Sharia Law and violence.

What?

[naomiglover]

Your kidding right?? you didn t see the part about getting rid of the Queen if she didn't convert to Sharia law? you didn t see those guys holding the signs up on British streets? you didn t see their leader threaten to eventually use violence to achieve their goals?? Okay you must have been looking at another video i guess freedom of rights is great but you have to draw a line somewhere but hey try this.

http://www.france24.com/en/20091120-english-defence-league-protest-islamist-extremist-kate-williams

It's only because he calls himself Muslim, isn't it?

I guess you have no problem with others who practice their right to babble on the street.

Like this guy:

Or this guy: