BC Polling

[madmax]

I am not particularly fond of the NDP leader. Not certain, why, but then again I am not fond of the Liberal Leader either, although I thought he was pretty funny on Rick Mercer.

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Democrats+hold+double+digit+lead+over+Liberals+poll/2248474/story.html

British Columbia’s New Democratic Party is maintaining a double-digit lead over the governing B.C. Liberals, a new poll by Angus Reid Public Opinion shows.

Conducted on Nov. 10 and Nov. 11, the poll found 47 per cent of respondents support the NDP, compared to 33 per cent who said they prefer the Liberals. Of the remaining people, 10 per cent backed the Greens, and seven per cent gave their support to the BC Conservatives

[eyeball]

With any luck this trend will hold until the next election. In the event of an apparent NDP landslide I hope voters are encouraged to vote for the Greens. I think an NDP minority government with a solid Green presence in the Legislature could lead to some really interesting developments.

[ToadBrother]

With any luck this trend will hold until the next election. In the event of an apparent NDP landslide I hope voters are encouraged to vote for the Greens. I think an NDP minority government with a solid Green presence in the Legislature could lead to some really interesting developments.

There is still 3 and a half years until the next Provincial election. The Liberals are betting (and not without justification) that tangible recovery will be under way by then.

And the Greens are lunatics. The candidates in my riding over the last few elections are complete maniacs. I don't mind seeing the NDP win, but those delusional crazies in the Greens pulling the strings, scary stuff. I live in a town reliant on the forest industry, the Greens are enemies of forestry, no matter how cleverly they like to cloak that.

[Nat]

Strange I wasnt send that Angus Reid survey. Since Campbell has become leader I've been voting Green we will have to see who's leader next election before I weigh in.

[madmax]

With any luck this trend will hold until the next election. In the event of an apparent NDP landslide I hope voters are encouraged to vote for the Greens. I think an NDP minority government with a solid Green presence in the Legislature could lead to some really interesting developments.

I surrender. I will never understand BC politics.

Is it like a Donut? No Centre, and if you go right, you find the left and left you find the right and utlimately drive around in circles until you find the magic bus?

There is no other Provincial thread I could ever read the comment above and not breakout into laughter.

But this kind of talk actually has plausibility in BC if not possible?

[Jerry J. Fortin]

You think its bad there now? Wait until California legalizes weed and the biggest selling product there is "BC Bud".

[ToadBrother]

I surrender. I will never understand BC politics.

You're not supposed to. It's like no-rules football. It just is, for the sake of being.

Is it like a Donut? No Centre, and if you go right, you find the left and left you find the right and utlimately drive around in circles until you find the magic bus?

For the most part the BC Liberals, after the first couple of years, did rule from the center, and even started stealing some goodies from the NDP and Green playlists (the carbon tax, for instance).

There is no other Provincial thread I could ever read the comment above and not breakout into laughter.

But this kind of talk actually has plausibility in BC if not possible?

I don't think it's that hard to figure out. We could be seeing on a Provincial level what happened to the Tories in Ottawa after the GST was implemented. New taxes, particularly ones as "in your face" as a consumption tax, can be insanely unpopular. For the Tories, it was an unpopular prime minister coupled with an unpopular tax. For BC, it isn't that much different. Campbell has never really won over anybody on charm, and has often been seen as a cold-blooded SOB. The Liberals largely won this election because everyone just knee-jerk assumed that they knew how to handle the economic downturn, and the Liberals helped that perception by denying anything like the HST was on the table and by basically putting out their own Fudge-it Budget with cheery projections (you'll have a hard time getting a BC Liberal supporter to explain how this was different than the Fudge-it Budgets the NDP released in the 1990s when they thought their electoral chances were down the tubes).

But I think the rumors of a BC Liberal collapse at the polls are a little premature. It's quite likely that we'll see some substantive economic recovery by 2013, and the HST will have sunk in sufficiently that it's not going to be much of an election issue. It would take a rather large amount of public anger and a very skilled Opposition to keep an issue alive for three and a half years, and the NDP haven't exactly shown themselves capable of it. If these polling figures are still there in 30 months, then if I were a BC Liberal, I'd be sweating.

[fellowtraveller]

With any luck this trend will hold until the next election. In the event of an apparent NDP landslide I hope voters are encouraged to vote for the Greens. I think an NDP minority government with a solid Green presence in the Legislature could lead to some really interesting developments.

I'd guess that every party would be encouraging people to vote for them, not just the Greens.

I expect the voters in BC to consider the 'really interesting developments' will likely include fiscal mismanagement, flight of capital and a challenged economic climate, the usual hallmarks of the NDP in BC.

That may not stop them from voting NDP though, they are a curious crew.

[ToadBrother]

I expect the voters in BC to consider the 'really interesting developments' will likely include fiscal mismanagement,

What do you call the Vancouver Convention Centre, the Olympic Village, this year's Fudge-it Budget?

flight of capital

Which is happening as we speak, particularly in resource communities, which the BC Liberals have basically ignored since coming into office.

and a challenged economic climate,

No one can blame the current problems on the NDP. Of course, no one could rationally blame them for the economic woes the last time, seeing as it was the Asian Flu which caused our export markets to shrivel up.

the usual hallmarks of the NDP in BC.

Seems like it's just the hallmarks of BC. The only reason Gordon Campbell ended up looking so good was because, by 2003-2004 BC was in solid recovery. It had nothing in particular to do with the Liberals, and everything to do with recovering markets.

That may not stop them from voting NDP though, they are a curious crew.

Apart from any real or perceived faults of the NDP, do you think a government that lies about whether or not it's going to impose a new consumption tax and completely fabricates economic projections should be rewarded?

[Shady]

I think an NDP minority government with a solid Green presence in the Legislature could lead to some really interesting developments.

Yep, higher taxes and rising unemployment.

[eyeball]

There is still 3 and a half years until the next Provincial election. The Liberals are betting (and not without justification) that tangible recovery will be under way by then.

And the Greens are lunatics. The candidates in my riding over the last few elections are complete maniacs. I don't mind seeing the NDP win, but those delusional crazies in the Greens pulling the strings, scary stuff. I live in a town reliant on the forest industry, the Greens are enemies of forestry, no matter how cleverly they like to cloak that.

I don't know, I live in a former forestry town and environmentalism is just one factor amongst many that put a stop to logging around here. The biggest factor was that M&B and BCFP simply cut everything down too quickly. I think they wanted an excuse to shut down our local divisions and wash their hands of their obligations to the environment and the unions. They and the NDP government at the time seemed more than happy to pretend environmentalism is the real reason there's virtually no more logging in the area.

[Shady]

And the Greens are lunatics. The candidates in my riding over the last few elections are complete maniacs. I don't mind seeing the NDP win, but those delusional crazies in the Greens pulling the strings, scary stuff. I live in a town reliant on the forest industry, the Greens are enemies of forestry, no matter how cleverly they like to cloak that.

Yep, and next in line will be manufacturing jobs.

[fellowtraveller]

environmentalism is just one factor amongst many that put a stop to logging around here.

would a near complete lack of market for wood products, a vast oversupply, have anything to do with the decline?

[Wilber]

I think the Liberals will be in for a rough ride the next election if Campbell remains the leader. If they could attract someone like Dianne Watts who wouldn't be carrying the old baggage, it might be another story.

[eyeball]

would a near complete lack of market for wood products, a vast oversupply, have anything to do with the decline?

Certainly.

So too would treaty settlements, not that I object to these but I sure take issue with how the Provincial government is managing its fiduciary responsibility to consult and especially its handling of applications from individuals to utilise a natural resource or lease a parcel of Crown land. I suspect much of the capital that is fleeing BC, especially in rural regions and especially from small investors, is related to the wall of challenges and costs that the Province's poor management of this issue brings to any resource-based ventures, especially new ones.

My own experience with this has proven to be a disaster. One somewhat cynical local wag suggested I should go try my idea in Newfoundland.

[bill barilko]

You think its bad there now? Wait until California legalizes weed and the biggest selling product there is "BC Bud".

BC Bud has been the biggest seller there for decades now.

Without that market the small BC towns that once depended on forestry would be even emptier.

[Goat Boy©]

The poll is meaningless, especially 3.5 years prior to election. The NDP just can't help but shoot themselves in the foot.

More Moe for B.C. NDP as Sihota named president

That, is not going to fly well around here. The last election should have been served on a Solid Gold platter, but they just can't pull it together.

[eyeball]

More Moe for B.C. NDP as Sihota named president

Oh well, I guess the Green party will have to do.

[ToadBrother]

The poll is meaningless, especially 3.5 years prior to election.

I'm sure the Federal Conservatives felt the same way when they announced the GST in 1990. And yet it became a focal point for many Canadians, and certainly was the single biggest flash point in the 1993 election.

What will count is economic recovery. If BC is demonstrably on the up-and-up, then I can well imagine a fourth term for the Liberals. If it's still flailing or stagnated, then the NDP will be to use the HST much as the Federal Liberals did the GST, as a potent issue to bash on the Liberals, and it's quite possible the BC Liberals could lose the election.

For the BC Liberals, of course, the problem is that, no matter what they said in the late 1990s and early 2000s, there is almost nothing the BC Liberals can do to effect the performance of export markets.

The NDP just can't help but shoot themselves in the foot.

More Moe for B.C. NDP as Sihota named president

Actually Sihota's an interesting choice. As an ethical politician, he had a lot to be desired, but seldom has politics produced a more rugged and vicious attack dog than Sihota. Quite frankly, I think it would be infinitely more fun having him in the legislature pounding on the Liberals than the likes of Adrian Dix.

That, is not going to fly well around here. The last election should have been served on a Solid Gold platter, but they just can't pull it together.

Well, it didn't help that the Liberals basically adoped their fudge-it budget scam. But the biggest problem, from my point of view, is that James is not the right person to go head-to-head against Gordon Campbell. I think she was the right person to rebuild the NDP, and at that job she did wonders, taking a decimated and devastated party and giving it an extraordinary showing in 2005. I also feel some of the fire's gone out of her belly. She's had her own personal crisis and that can often color a person. She's not the same bootstomper that she was in 2004-2005, and the NDP seem to be floundering a little.

The problem for both the NDP and the BC Liberals is successorship. Both parties are saddled with leaders that seem to be flashpoints of discontent for both their own parties and the electorate. Many inside and outside the NDP perceive James as weak and unable to keep issues afloat. The HST has caused all sorts of turmoil in the BC Liberals, and the only thing keeping Campbell safe right now is that there doesn't seem to be anyone else in the near future who could take over the reigns of a party that is fundamentally a coalition between free market fiscal conservatives and old-school Socred social conservatives. Remove Campbell from the equation, and those lines of division could very well do the party serious damage.

Edited December 11, 2009 by ToadBrother

[Wayne McQ.]

I'd guess that every party would be encouraging people to vote for them, not just the Greens.

I expect the voters in BC to consider the 'really interesting developments' will likely include fiscal mismanagement, flight of capital and a challenged economic climate, the usual hallmarks of the NDP in BC.

That may not stop them from voting NDP though, they are a curious crew.

I was not a resident of BC long enough before the last election to vote, but I have to tell you as someone who originally came from NB where the HST was imposed, Gordon Campbell is a liar on two fronts. Jobs are not created with the introduction of the HST, in fact the number of jobs decreases, especially in the service industry which has never before been subject to PST. Secondly, prices won't go down because corporations will pass along their savings to consumers by lowering their prices to reflect the transfer of taxing responsibility to consumers from the corporations, as those saving will simply represent additional profits to be added to their bottom line of the corporations. The same line was fed to teh people in Atlantic Canada with the introduction of the HST, and it was not long before the people realized they had been lied to, but by then it was too late as the deal had already been signed.

This is quite simply a wealth transfer from consumers to the corporations, as if they are not already reporting record profits. These self-serving politicians should be charged with election fraud the same as someone who writes cheques knowing full well there is no money in the account to cover the amount on the cheque. Somehow, we need to make these lying politicians accountable to the people. If that means putting these lying thieves behind bars, so be it. Gordon Campbell outright lied to the people and covered up the true financial picture of the province's finances in order to secure a victory, and that is no different than stealing from the people. In many senses it is far worse since he is stealing democracy from the people.

[Wayne McQ.]

Oh well, I guess the Green party will have to do.

The Greens are little more than the NDP on steroids. If you remember back, Elizabeth May was willing to give up her claim to fame to be involved in a coalition government with the NDP, BLOC-heads, and the Liberals if only they would name her a Senator. She would do anything to insure herself a place at the trough, with the other power-hungry pigs.

Thank you very much, but I would never vote Green, nor would I ever vote Liberal again. Yes; I am ashamed to admit it, but I voted Liberal in the last provincial election in NB, and now that same Liberal government is attempting to sell the virtual sovereignty to the Hydro Quebec, a wholly owned crown corporation of the Government of Quebec. They have always called NB Little Quebec now the Liberal Premier, Shawn Graham is about to make that a reality, by selling crown owned NB Power to them, without a mandate from the people to do so which will give Quebec a virtual monopoly of electricity exports to the New England states, while blocking access to the distribution network for NS. & NL.

Edited December 12, 2009 by Wayne McQ.

[eyeball]

Thank you very much, but I would never vote Green, nor would I ever vote Liberal again.

I vote strategically, if at all. I would vote Green to prevent the NDP from achieving a majority, likewise I would vote NDP to avoid a Liberal majority etc etc. If it looks too close to call I usually indicate none of the above... As long as minority governments are the closest we'll likely ever get to a PR government then so be it.

I often question whether I'll ever vote again because it feels like I'm complicit in my own dictatorship and my vote is an endorsement of a democratic system I have no faith in.

[ToadBrother]

I often question whether I'll ever vote again because it feels like I'm complicit in my own dictatorship and my vote is an endorsement of a democratic system I have no faith in.

I often wonder when people say this just how detached from the political process they are. The process is more than just throwing your ballot in the box. Do you interact with your elected representatives? Send them letters? Call them? Do you write letters to the editor?

[eyeball]

I often wonder when people say this just how detached from the political process they are. The process is more than just throwing your ballot in the box. Do you interact with your elected representatives? Send them letters? Call them? Do you write letters to the editor?

Yup. I've also been involved with local governance at the regional district level for about 25 years. I've seen a few associates go on to the municipal and provincial level and I've met with various provincial and federal officials and politicians over the years. I also have a pretty good familiarity with local First Nation's politicians.

I've been approached to run for local office but I'm afraid of what might happen. Most of the people I know who have gone on to municipal and provincial governments change. They get elected and disappear for awhile - to some training or indoctrination camp maybe. They're different afterwards...like they've been taken over by a Goa'uld or something. Its creepy.

[eyeball]

They're different afterwards...like they've been taken over by a Goa'uld or something. Its creepy.

I think what simply happens is that these people's values and focus inevitably revolve around the interests of the party and organization they join and the interests of the community they represent are relegated to a lower priority.

Its not rocket science, its political science. I guess some would say its realpolitic or some such thing.

Edited December 13, 2009 by eyeball