ClimateGate and the Climatati

[Alta4ever]

.

Edited November 29, 2009 by Alta4ever

[Argus]

Argus, like what you did with your hurricane pointing post - like that?

You're a troll - nothing else... your opinion is worth (less than) mice nuts.

On the contary. I vote, I speak to many people, and I tell them that climate science is about as scientific as those tests the Scientologists do to feret out the alien spirits inside you. And every day I seem to read some new columnists saying the same. It will take a while, as the mindless, brainless zealots like yourself continue shriek and wail and howl to the winds, but eventually this nonsense will disapear.

Then you'll have to find something else to fill your empty life and brain - Scientology, perhaps?

[jbg]

So in essence the scientists are playing politics, is that really news worthy?

Sure it is.

If scientists want to be treated as neutral and objective they have to act that way. Otherwise they're perpetrating a fraud on all of us.

[waldo]

On the contary. I vote, I speak to many people, and I tell them that climate science is about as scientific as those tests the Scientologists do to feret out the alien spirits inside you. And every day I seem to read some new columnists saying the same. It will take a while, as the mindless, brainless zealots like yourself continue shriek and wail and howl to the winds, but eventually this nonsense will disapear.

Then you'll have to find something else to fill your empty life and brain - Scientology, perhaps?

no problem Argus - you just keep listening to those columnists, particularly the one's you appear to favour. The thinking/caring will, alternatively, continue forward listening to the actual (overwhelming) voice of the scientific community.

it is certainly your prerogative to equate climate science with Scientology, alien spirits and brainless zealots.

[jbg]

no problem Argus - you just keep listening to those columnists, particularly the one's you appear to favour. The thinking/caring will, alternatively, continue forward listening to the actual (overwhelming) voice of the scientific community.

it is certainly your prerogative to equate climate science with Scientology, alien spirits and brainless zealots.

I guess your lack of literacy leads you to not understand what this thread is all about. It's about the severe pressure placed on skeptical scientists to not broadcast their views. Ever notice that Gore ducked several debates on the issue?

The article below (link)details Al Gore’s artifice and cowardice in ducking an interview with people who actually know something about the environment and global warming. It seems that he prefers Sunday morning potshots on MSM interviews, where a panel or reporters, half asleep, lob softballs. He realizes that a debate with someone knowledgeable would be fatal to his book and movie sales if not to his political career.

Maybe Dion or Suzuki should step up to the plate that Gore left behind.

Excerpts below (link):

Will Al Gore Melt?

By FLEMMING ROSE and BJORN LOMBORG

January 18, 2007; Page A16

Al Gore is traveling around the world telling us how we must fundamentally change our civilization due to the threat of global warming. Today he is in Denmark to disseminate this message. But if we are to embark on the costliest political project ever, maybe we should make sure it rests on solid ground. It should be based on the best facts, not just the convenient ones. This was the background for the biggest Danish newspaper, Jyllands-Posten, to set up an investigative interview with Mr. Gore. And for this, the paper thought it would be obvious to team up with Bjorn Lomborg, author of "The Skeptical Environmentalist," who has provided one of the clearest counterpoints to Mr. Gore's tune.

The interview had been scheduled for months. Mr. Gore's agent yesterday thought Gore-meets-Lomborg would be great. Yet an hour later, he came back to tell us that Bjorn Lomborg should be excluded from the interview because he's been very critical of Mr. Gore's message about global warming and has questioned Mr. Gore's evenhandedness. According to the agent, Mr. Gore only wanted to have questions about his book and documentary, and only asked by a reporter. These conditions were immediately accepted by Jyllands-Posten. Yet an hour later we received an email from the agent saying that the interview was now cancelled. What happened?

One can only speculate. But if we are to follow Mr. Gore's suggestions of radically changing our way of life, the costs are not trivial. If we slowly change our greenhouse gas emissions over the coming century, the U.N. actually estimates that we will live in a warmer but immensely richer world. However, the U.N. Climate Panel suggests that if we follow Al Gore's path down toward an environmentally obsessed society, it will have big consequences for the world, not least its poor. In the year 2100, Mr. Gore will have left the average person 30% poorer, and thus less able to handle many of the problems we will face, climate change or no climate change.

*snip*

He considers Antarctica the canary in the mine, but again doesn't tell the full story. He presents pictures from the 2% of Antarctica that is dramatically warming and ignores the 98% that has largely cooled over the past 35 years. The U.N. panel estimates that Antarctica will actually increase its snow mass this century. Similarly, Mr. Gore points to shrinking sea ice in the Northern Hemisphere, but don't mention that sea ice in the Southern Hemisphere is increasing. Shouldn't we hear those facts?

*snip*

Al Gore is on a mission. If he has his way, we could end up choosing a future, based on dubious claims, that could cost us, according to a U.N. estimate, $553 trillion over this century. Getting answers to hard questions is not an unreasonable expectation before we take his project seriously. It is crucial that we make the right decisions posed by the challenge of global warming. These are best achieved through open debate, and we invite him to take the time to answer our questions: We are ready to interview you any time, Mr. Gore -- and anywhere.

Edited November 29, 2009 by jbg

[bjre]

If you go to document web site of the united nations: http://www.un.org/ga/64/agenda/B-development.shtml , you will find document in Chinese language always use least pages.

If all people in the world use Chinese language in printing, I think at least 20% paper can be saved, that will be a great amount in saving woods and forest. That would be good to our climate.

[Riverwind]

If all people in the world use Chinese language in printing, I think at least 20% paper can be saved

What a bizarre comment. Is it an attempt at humor?

[bjre]

What a bizarre comment. Is it an attempt at humor?

It might be strange to you, or you may think it is a joke, but it is a fact, although it is impossible.

In the most popular Chinese dictionary, there are only 10k one syllable words, and 3500 two or more syllable words, that is more than enough for a Chinese to read and write. Most engineering majoring student knows only 2000 one-syllable-word (or Chinese character). However, if I need to read English newspaper or magazine without difficult, I need to understand 20k to 30k English words. Chinese students read articles written 2000 years ago in middle schools. I don't know if high school student here can read Geoffrey Chaucer's works written in 400 years ago.

The counterpart of "Rectangular Parallelepiped" in Chinese is only 3 syllable, and only one syllable different from Cuboid, which makes a child very easy to understand the meaning. The rule for effectively composing the meaning of words makes children very easy to guess the meaning about what is photism, rheostat, calcium carbonate, hypertension, nephrolith in Chinese.

That is one of the reasons it is hard for a Chinese to learn English, because in China he need only remember 2000 one-syllable-word, and 2000 multiple syllable word, suddenly, he need to know at least 20k English word to read and write, it is really difficult.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Doesn't Chinese not have parallels for some english words? The reason english has so many words is because it has a word for pretty much everything. The only words it doesn't have are words for things no other language has anyway.

[bjre]

Doesn't Chinese not have parallels for some english words? The reason english has so many words is because it has a word for pretty much everything. The only words it doesn't have are words for things no other language has anyway.

Chinese turned to use existing word to compose meaning. Which make it effective is it use less syllables.

For example, hypertension in Chinese is in 3 word (or 3 syllables) 'high', 'blood', 'pressure', each of the 3 words is one syllable. Everything is composed in this way, it makes it not only effective in speak less sound, but also easy to understand the meaning. So the printing need less papers.

[Riverwind]

It might be strange to you, or you may think it is a joke, but it is a fact, although it is impossible.

It is a joke because it would be much simplier to require that all documents be printed single spaced using 6pt font. That would likely save more paper. People who needed larger fonts could use the eletronic copies.

I don't know if high school student here can read Geoffrey Chaucer's works written in 400 years ago.

A chinese speaker today that only learned the simplied characters would not be able to read any old documents. Also many symbols go out of use and require specialized knowledge just like reading Chaucer requires specialized knowledge.

That is one of the reasons it is hard for a Chinese to learn English, because in China he need only remember 2000 one-syllable-word, and 2000 multiple syllable word, suddenly, he need to know at least 20k English word to read and write, it is really difficult.

All modern languages have a similar level of complexity. The only difference is where that complexity shows up. In Chinese the complexity comes from the writing system and the use of tones. In English the complexity comes from the spelling and grammer.

[bjre]

A chinese speaker today that only learned the simplied characters would not be able to read any old documents. Also many symbols go out of use and require specialized knowledge just like reading Chaucer requires specialized knowledge.

There are plenty of articles written hundreds or thousands years ago in book stores and library everywhere in China that characters are in simplified characters (symbols) include those in middle school language text books.

[jbg]

Chinese turned to use existing word to compose meaning. Which make it effective is it use less syllables.

For example, hypertension in Chinese is in 3 word (or 3 syllables) 'high', 'blood', 'pressure', each of the 3 words is one syllable. Everything is composed in this way, it makes it not only effective in speak less sound, but also easy to understand the meaning. So the printing need less papers.

Open a new thread on the Chinese (is it Mandarin or some other version) language. This has no place on a climate thread.

[Michael Hardner]

Open a new thread on the Chinese (is it Mandarin or some other version) language. This has no place on a climate thread.

Agreed - this is a side topic of marginal interest.

[bjre]

Open a new thread on the Chinese (is it Mandarin or some other version) language. This has no place on a climate thread.

Thanks, but I have nothing more to say on this. (by the way, Mandarin, Cantonese, and many others are different in speaking, they share same writing form either simplified characters or traditional characters, even with most same writing form with Japanese kanji).

[jbg]

Agreed - this is a side topic of marginal interest.

Thanks. It is rare that you agree with me on anything.

[Michael Hardner]

Thanks. It is rare that you agree with me on anything.

I don't particularly identify you as someone I disagree with often...

[Pliny]

Thanks, but I have nothing more to say on this. (by the way, Mandarin, Cantonese, and many others are different in speaking, they share same writing form either simplified characters or traditional characters, even with most same writing form with Japanese kanji).

The English language has basically 26 symbols representative of sounds. What could be simpler?

[Pliny]

I have read this thread and listened to Waldo and Wyly go on about how climate change is a certainty and we are the cause is proven by science...but quite frankly who gives a crap.

What do you suggest we do?

I know..how about we redistribute all the wealth in the world? Make sense?

[bjre]

The English language has basically 26 symbols representative of sounds. What could be simpler?

with 1 and 0 only

[Argus]

it is certainly your prerogative to equate climate science with Scientology, alien spirits and brainless zealots.

With advocates like you I have no doubt such perceptions about AGW will continue to grow.

You really ar out of your depth when you attempt to communicate with human beings. Best find someone else to front your side.

[Argus]

I have read this thread and listened to Waldo and Wyly go on about how climate change is a certainty and we are the cause is proven by science...but quite frankly who gives a crap.

What do you suggest we do?

I know..how about we redistribute all the wealth in the world? Make sense?

That's something they don't really like to talk about. From what I gather, if we spend hundreds of trillions of dollars it might, possibly, have some ameliorating affect on warming - but they're not sure how much - if any.

[Michael Hardner]

That's something they don't really like to talk about. From what I gather, if we spend hundreds of trillions of dollars it might, possibly, have some ameliorating affect on warming - but they're not sure how much - if any.

Wired magazine is saying it's time to focus on adaption rather than prevention.

Wired

Edited December 1, 2009 by Michael Hardner

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Wired magazine is saying it's time to focus on adaption rather than prevention.

Wire

I have been saying the same thing for some time. Adapt or die.

[wyly]

I have been saying the same thing for some time. Adapt or die.

there is no adapting to it, pure fantasy, it's stop it or die...