Sales Tax/HST/GST - Other People's Money

[August1991]

Leftists (NDP, Liberals, BQ, PQ) love to spend other people's money. How are we supposed to pay for all these government programmes? Governments must tax.

Tax the rich? If governments try to make the rich pay, the rich cheat and move their money abroad.

Governments can also borrow, but that just puts the tax on to the children of today's rich people - assuming that these rich kids will be stupider in the future than their parents now, and the kids won't know how to avoid the future taxes.

----

I hate these debates about taxes.

In my mind, I wonder why government bureaucrats/politicians can so easily spend so much of other people's money.

And I also wonder, as a Conservative, what our government bureaucrats/politicians should do. In a world where people honestly paid their taxes, what would government be?

Edited November 20, 2009 by August1991

[Hydraboss]

In a world where people honestly paid their taxes, what would government be?

Reform.

[Vancouver King]

Tax the rich? If governments try to make the rich pay, the rich cheat and move their money abroad.]

Of course, so tax the poor and working families. A perfect example is Harper's pending sales tax, so lucrative to federal coffers he doesn't hesitate to offer multi-billion dollar incentives to Ontario and BC to implement it.

[Wilber]

More lucrative to provincial coffers but how will it be more lucrative to federal coffers? It is just adds PST to things that already had GST but were not taxed by the province.

[madmax]

More lucrative to provincial coffers but how will it be more lucrative to federal coffers? It is just adds PST to things that already had GST but were not taxed by the province.

In Ontario, GST (Soon to be 13%) HSTwill be added onto items that were previously exempt. Such as Used Cars sold privately.

Edited November 20, 2009 by madmax

[JaysFan]

In Ontario, GST (Soon to be 13%) HSTwill be added onto items that were previously exempt. Such as Used Cars sold privately.

And expand the underground economy.

Under the table work and sales will grow considerably.

[Wilber]

In Ontario, GST (Soon to be 13%) HSTwill be added onto items that were previously exempt. Such as Used Cars sold privately.

I doubt many of the receipts made out for private car sales reflect the actual selling price as it is. As JaysFan says, more grist for the underground economy. It's a good point though and a good question for your MLA. I think I will ask mine.

[Alta4ever]

In Ontario, GST (Soon to be 13%) HSTwill be added onto items that were previously exempt. Such as Used Cars sold privately.

The GST is 5%, and yes it is a tax grab by the provincial government. As now they will get to charge the pst on items that were exempt from it, It won't change the GST though as no items are being added to it.

As for Vancover King this is the fairest tax system of them all, and the rich do end up paying more of the tax as they buy more items and and typically more expensive ones. Their is no way to shelter yourself from it either so it has to be paid. Ideallly it woulod be best to almost total remove the income tax and move the taxation to consumption based taxes and corpate to a flat tax system.

[Riverwind]

Of course, so tax the poor and working families. A perfect example is Harper's pending sales tax, so lucrative to federal coffers he doesn't hesitate to offer multi-billion dollar incentives to Ontario and BC to implement it.

The incentives are based on a desire to have a more efficient tax system. It makes no sense to have a federal and provincial bureaucracy collecting same tax. It also makes Canadian businesses less competitive.

This debate has also highlighted the naivity amoung many people who seem to think that all taxes should be paid by the mythical "rich" and the poor/middle class should not have to contribute to the cost of the services they use because they 'can't afford it'. I feel that argument is bogus. Everyone should pay some taxes even if they are poor because it makes taxation personal. A GST is a good way to do that also happens to be quote progressive since the poor spend a smaller percentage of their income on taxable items.

[Wilber]

The GST is 5%, and yes it is a tax grab by the provincial government. As now they will get to charge the pst on items that were exempt from it, It won't change the GST though as no items are being added to it.

As for Vancover King this is the fairest tax system of them all, and the rich do end up paying more of the tax as they buy more items and and typically more expensive ones. Their is no way to shelter yourself from it either so it has to be paid. Ideallly it woulod be best to almost total remove the income tax and move the taxation to consumption based taxes and corpate to a flat tax system.

Actually he makes a good point. At present in BC, PST is charged on the private sale of used vehicles but GST is not. With HST will the PST be removed or the GST added? My guess is the latter.

Edited November 21, 2009 by Wilber

[Alta4ever]

Actually he makes a good point. At present in BC, PST is charged on the private sale of used vehicles but GST is not. With HST will the PST be removed or the GST added? My guess is the latter.

The GST is not amended just the PST so so i would suspect it would be removed but GST is charged on used vehilces bought at acar dealership, unless you have a trade in then it is just charged on the difference.

[Vancouver King]

Actually he makes a good point. At present in BC, PST is charged on the private sale of used vehicles but GST is not. With HST will the PST be removed or the GST added? My guess is the latter.

Correct, GST will now be payable along with PST on used vehicles. Thats means the feds will now collect 5% of the proceeds of over 150,000 annual transactions each valued at an average of over $14,000. Just on this item alone it is easy to see Harper's tax grab and his billion dollar bribes to have the provinces harmonize.

Among endless examples, taxpayers will have expensive reminders of their govts chicanery every time they dine out in restaurants or work out in the gym. Harper deserves his share of the coming fallout.

[Alta4ever]

Q. Will HST apply to the same things as the GST?

Goods and services that are taxable under the GST will be taxable under HST, except for the items eligible for a point of sale rebate on BC’s portion of the harmonized tax. Although there is GST on these items, the B.C. portion of the HST will not apply (i.e., you will not pay the B.C. portion of the tax).

Nothing that is currently exempt from GST will be subject to HST. If you do not pay GST on an item now, you will not pay HST after harmonization. GST-exempt items will be HST-exempt and zero-rated items for GST purposes will be zero-rated under the HST.

Q. What is the difference between zero-rated and exempt?

Under the GST and HST, there are three different ways that goods and services are treated: they are taxable, exempt or zero-rated.

Taxable

Most goods and services are taxable, which means that HST is charged on the supply of those items.

Businesses making taxable supplies can claim input tax credits credits to recover tax paid on inputs used in making those supplies.

Examples: cars, clothing, furniture, haircuts.

Exempt

Consumers do not pay HST on exempt items (i.e., businesses or people making exempt supplies do not charge HST).

Those making exempt supplies cannot claim input tax credits to recover tax paid on inputs used in making those supplies.

Examples: health and dental services, financial services, long-term residential rental accommodation, child-care services, educational services.

Zero-rated

Consumers do not pay HST on zero-rated items (i.e., they pay a 0 per cent tax rate)

Those making zero-rated supplies can claim input tax credits to recover tax paid on inputs used in making those supplies.

Examples: basic groceries, prescription drugs, medical devices, exports.

http://www.gov.bc.ca/hst/faq.html

Used cars have never been GST Exempt, you pay the GST at the dealership dealership

[Wilber]

Correct, GST will now be payable along with PST on used vehicles. Thats means the feds will now collect 5% of the proceeds of over 150,000 annual transactions each valued at an average of over $14,000. Just on this item alone it is easy to see Harper's tax grab and his billion dollar bribes to have the provinces harmonize.

Among endless examples, taxpayers will have expensive reminders of their govts chicanery every time they dine out in restaurants or work out in the gym. Harper deserves his share of the coming fallout.

Apparently not. I posed this question to my MLA and this is the response I got:

"There is currently no GST on used vehicles purchased in a private sale. That means there will be no HST charged. There is however currently a 7% PST charge payable on registration. That may continue as a vehicle registration fee based on cost however, I do not believe a decision has been made as of yet. In any event, there will be no HST."

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Apparently not. I posed this question to my MLA and this is the response I got:

"There is currently no GST on used vehicles purchased in a private sale. That means there will be no HST charged. There is however currently a 7% PST charge payable on registration. That may continue as a vehicle registration fee based on cost however, I do not believe a decision has been made as of yet. In any event, there will be no HST."

I trust government to squeeze the citizen to the best of its ability. There is a will, so a way will be found to bilk us of every nickel they can to cover their bogus budgets.

[madmax]

Used cars have never been GST Exempt, you pay the GST at the dealership dealership

You pay GST on the NEW CAR, and don't pay GST on the trade in value. When the dealer sells the Used Car, they make up the difference on the GST as the final completion of the sale.

However, Private Auto Sales never paid GST and will now.

Enjoy.

[madmax]

This debate has also highlighted the naivity amoung many people who seem to think that all taxes should be paid by the mythical "rich" and the poor/middle class should not have to contribute to the cost of the services they use because they 'can't afford it'. I feel that argument is bogus. Everyone should pay some taxes even if they are poor because it makes taxation personal. A GST is a good way to do that also happens to be quote progressive since the poor spend a smaller percentage of their income on taxable items.

I don't mind the idealogical debate on the HST. However, this is about the CPC denying involvement in the tax.

I heard all the good things about the GST back in 88 and 89, from the Conservatives.

Edited November 22, 2009 by madmax

[madmax]

Apparently not. I posed this question to my MLA and this is the response I got:

"There is currently no GST on used vehicles purchased in a private sale. That means there will be no HST charged. There is however currently a 7% PST charge payable on registration. That may continue as a vehicle registration fee based on cost however, I do not believe a decision has been made as of yet. In any event, there will be no HST."

Interesting. If they move the 7% PST to a form of user fee, there will be a TAX on the userfee, just like in Ontario, where GST is applied on top of a debt retirement tax.. DID WE EVER GET SNOOKERED.

Get SOMETHING OFFICIAL and in WRITING. LOL. If the PST remains then the HST will apply. Strictly because if it doesn't the DEALERS WILL HAVE A SHIT FIT!!! They already believe they are being penalized because of the Private Sector not having to add GST.

It has been acknowledged in Ontario that the PST will remain and the GST Will be added in the form of the HST. Dealers are happy campers.

Edited November 22, 2009 by madmax

[Alta4ever]

You pay GST on the NEW CAR, and don't pay GST on the trade in value. When the dealer sells the Used Car, they make up the difference on the GST as the final completion of the sale.

However, Private Auto Sales never paid GST and will now.

Enjoy.

YOu pay gst on the full amount if you have no trade in so yes GST is charged on used vehicles

[madmax]

YOu pay gst on the full amount if you have no trade in so yes GST is charged on used vehicles

Everytime I flip a used vehicle the BUYER pays PST. Next year the Buyer will pay GST and PST on those used vehicles.

Live in a Province that you pay PST and come back and talk to me....

[Alta4ever]

Everytime I flip a used vehicle the BUYER pays PST. Next year the Buyer will pay GST and PST on those used vehicles.

Live in a Province that you pay PST and come back and talk to me....

So you will admit then that is is a provincial tax grab not a federal?

[madmax]

So you will admit then that is is a provincial tax grab not a federal?

WTF?

This is a Federal and Provincial Tax grab.

That said, unlike the thread title... the recent polling data is giving HEAVY WEIGHT to the HST and the rapid rise of the NDP who happen to be advocating against the HST.

Hands in my pocket, hands in my pocket, hands in my pocket.... :angry:

[Jerry J. Fortin]

I think most folks are buying what the governments are telling them. From an Alberta perspective, where we have no PST, the entire thing is a mess! This kind of thing is difficult for us because it seems like every time we leave the province we end up paying more taxes. Did I mention we are not real tax friendly here?

[Alta4ever]

WTF?

This is a Federal and Provincial Tax grab.

That said, unlike the thread title... the recent polling data is giving HEAVY WEIGHT to the HST and the rapid rise of the NDP who happen to be advocating against the HST.

Hands in my pocket, hands in my pocket, hands in my pocket.... :angry:

Nothing in the GST is being changed not one thing, what is being changed is what the pst applies to. The GST cannot be amended without a bill in the house of commons, no bill has been introduced or put on the house list. The Province of Ontario is introducing the motion to Harmonize the "provincial" sales tax with the federal. All of the changes being made are being made by the province on their tax not the other way around.

[madmax]

Did I mention we are not real tax friendly here?

Alberta doesn't have a PST. So why can't other Provinces follow that model? And if Alberta doesn't have a PST why should Alberta pay GST? Whats good enough for the Province should be good enough for the entire country. Scrap the GST... entirely.